The concept of evil

[shixie]

I just recently learned about NPD.  It is very disturbing.  I stumbled upon it on a website for work place bullies.  This also is a new term that I have been reseaching since I had been a target for 4 years at my last job.  The word I use to describe the bully duo is evil.  What they did and the lengths they would go to harass me and others was unbelievable.  As I look back in my life, evil is how I would describe all the N's in my life.  Evil is also how M. Scott Peck describes them.  It's been hard, I see N's all around me.  It's also been a bit frightening at times.  My sister is married to one, my mom is in a relationship with one.  My father was one, my ex was one and so on.  They say NPD only affects 1% of the population.  I think its more than that.  They become so vengeful when you expose them.  It scares me because they are capable of anything.  Am I being too paranoid?  I currently have a law suit against my former employer for harassment and discrimination.  I am worried about the vengence they could inflict on me.  I feel it is the right thing to do.  They hurt and harassed many of my former co-workers.  I am the only one with a law suit against them.  I feel I am doing justice for all of us.  Standing up to evil is a scary and intimidating thing to do.  Maybe the reason I am doing it, is because my whole life I was bullied by N's and couldn't do anything.  But will it matter?  I hope so.  Thanks for letting me vent.

[mighty mouse]

They say NPD only affects 1% of the population. I think its more than that.  

I think it's much more than that. I've read sources who put it at about 5%. But since most of these nuts don't want anything to do with therapy, who knows?

My NMom despises anything to do with psychology....even my avocational reading/studying. She's always quick with a put down regarding the subject. I too have read M. Scott Peck's book - "People of the Lie". I agree
with his outing this as an evil.

MM

[Anonymous]

Hi Shixie,

Brother, have I thought about the N percentage of the population, too!    I don't know if N is on the uptake because of our culture (U.S.) or because being an N magnet, we see more of them, or because we are now better able to spot them.  It is scary.  Sometimes my fear of them is overwhelming and avoiding them isn't enough.  But then I remember that if I am strong and if I find the authentic people, I'm much better off.  I can run, but I can't hide, so I have to polish my shield and reflect the sun into their eyes, if I can (and if it's sunny...).

I define evil as anything or anyone who takes away or fails to recognize the humanity of people or a person or other living creatures for that matter.  In other words, if a human being is seen as a "thing" or object.  That perception alone takes the life energy of the other out of the picture.  Nazis, terrorists, psycho criminals all fit the bill as well as some organizations, systems, etc.  When you are treated like a number or cog in the wheel.  I found Peck's book so validating!!

I don't expose Ns if I don't need to because you are right, they become vengeful.  Why take that on if I can simply walk away and leave them to their madness?

The fact that you mention an "evil" duo caught my attention as well.  There was also a similar situation at my old job.  Two against one will always win because they back each other up.  It's like two alpha dogs who can't decide who's going down, so they team up and fight everyone else.  They get off on the power they both have together that they wouldn't have if they fought each other.   And it's automatic verification of one half's convenient, self-serving version of the "truth".  

As for fighting for "justice" don't do it just because it's the right thing.  If doing the right thing is EXTREMELY important to you, and you can take the heat, then go for it.  But think long term and how this is going to benefit YOU overall.  Is it going to be expensive?  Do you have an extremely strong case?  etc etc.  Just because you are morally correct doesn't mean you will win or you will fix the system...part of me is proud of you for having the guts to take it on whatever it is, but don't let your courage run away with your need for self-protection.  Whether or not things are "fair" or "unfair", have your eyes open to all the consequences of the lawsuit and what will happen once the lawyers and judges move on to other cases...something to consider is how much power they have beyond their own little fiefdom.  Who else benefits from your employer acting this way or from looking the other way?  Are other employers going to look askance at you if they find out you brought a lawsuit against one of their own?  I think your paranoia is serving you well if you are considering all the consequences.  


Good luck to you, Seeker

[shixie]

MM and Seeker, thanks for your reply.  MM even 5% seems low to me.  If I look back in my life all the people who cause me pain are N's.  Maybe their familiarities was why I continued seek them out.  Only to be subjected to their abuse.  We all know how charming they can be.  Hopefully now I will recognize it sooner.  

As for my law suit, I have a good number of witnesses.  The bully's have gotten rid of almost all of my former co-workers.  My discrimination case is strong and it is the only way for the owners to realize the liabilities they have working for them.  This was at one time THE best skilled nursing facility in my area.  The bullies ran out a fabulous administrator with their schemes.  The patient care has been compromised greatly.  I think they should be banned from health care.  I have tremendous support from all of my former co-workers.  The lawyer gets 40% of the settlement, he must think its worth it or he wouldn't have taken the case.  Of couse this could drag on for years.  Hopefully, I'll be better prepared.

[Anonymous]

Dear Shixie,

You've nailed it on the head:

only way for the owners to realize the liabilities they have working for them

This is key.  People will sit up and take notice if something's about to cost them major bucks.  Best wishes to you!!  Seeker

[shixie]

Thank you Seeker for your well wishes.  I know the longer I have been away from their environment, the stronger I will be. It will be interesting to watch it unfold.   My new crusade in life is to work to pass legislation in my state against work bullies, who quite often are N's.  I feel a need to do something to protect us from these bastards.

[Anastasia]

Narcissists are EVIL?  I second and third that mother, sister!!!!  No kidding!
So charming, so delightful, so wonderful...while, behind your back, they stab you.  Pure evil thru and thru.
I get on this board from time to time and keep saying the same thing over and over:  why are some of the board members twisting themselves into a pretzel trying to please the unpleasable?  Get away from them physically if you are able to at all.  And quit making excuses as to why you cannot:  it is your life, your health and heart at stake.  
These narcissists will dominate and control your life, try to convince you that they know all the answers only and beat you down when you show any sign of independence.
This is one time in your life you need to RUN...run like the wind...and leave the narcissist behind if you are to develop who you really are at all.  These narcissists will totally destroy you all the while professing their great "love" for you (as if they are even capable...ha!).  Trust me, I know from first hand experience.

[Anonymous]

Hi stacey,
I admire your stand, your conviction, your wanting to make the world, your hospital a better place.  It may sound pollyanna, but I like the concept of pollyanna more and more in this world--especially with the ambivalent stats on the true number of N's (bullies) around.  We need more of YOU.  But set your boundaries.  Stay detached.  Don't get hooked in.  I just finished a great book which articulates how to deal with N's in your life and how to protect yourself  :  Why is it Always About YOu?  by Sandy Hotchkiss.  She also gives very specific advice about how to raise our children to be very far away from narcissitc traits.  I thinkyou would find this book useful for a variet of reasons.  I know you have adorable kids.  Let us knopw how we can support you to take it on!!
cplummer  (CSHF)

[shixie]

AMEN Anastasia!  Thanks for your reply, btw Anastasia happens to be my first name.

CSHF, nice to hear from you again.  Thanks for you encouraging words.  I will look for that book too.  I know this site will be valuable in my crusade.  

[Anonymous]

why are some of the board members twisting themselves into a pretzel trying to please the unpleasable?  Get away from them physically if you are able to at all.  And quit making excuses as to why you cannot:  it is your life, your health and heart at stake.  
These narcissists will dominate and control your life, try to convince you that they know all the answers only and beat you down when you show any sign of independence.
This is one time in your life you need to RUN...run like the wind...and leave the narcissist behind if you are to develop who you really are at all.  These narcissists will totally destroy you all the while professing their great "love" for you (as if they are even capable...ha!).  Trust me, I know from first hand experience.

Anastasia - I agree with you! I have done this regarding my N parents and siblings. Now I'm stuck with burning questions...Did I ever have love? Do I even know what love is anymore? Why are they satisfied with a life that doesn't involve me anymore? If my kids were to quit speaking to me or avoid me I would get right in the middle of them and apologize my ass off or try to figure out why they were upset and really listen to them. Why don't the N's do this for me? Is pride their most treasured trait?

 I guess I'm still beating my head against the wall wishing my N family would come to their supposed senses.
 

MrTraced

[Ellie]

MrTraced,
I know what you're talking about. I have spent the past 4 years separating myself and family from my N mom and N dad. In fact I took my stand recently and proved to them they no longer have control and they refuse to admit I did anything! A big thing in our family was to respect the objects in the house, even the house, much more than respect for ourselves. So if it was between a piece of furniture getting damaged or the kid getting hurt - the kid better get hurt!

I took a couple objects my father had made for me - I do not even like them anymore and they remind me too much of him - and I smashed them to pieces, good therapy I must add. Then I cut up a baby blanket my mom made me promise to treasure - it was too old, ratty and rough to use with my babies, and I cut it up into pieces and sent it all back to them stating my independence, proclaiming my family's new life free from their judgement. Actually I just admitted to living a lifestyle they despise - they are fundamentalists and think people are terrible if they socially drink, smoke and cuss. They wouldn't call me to talk about it so a month later I called them. They acted like nothing had happened! So I asked if they received my package and N mom started crying and said she refused to read my letter. It just amazes me that she cries over boken objects, but has no emotions after a 4 year separation of only talking a couple times a year!

I'm working on healing but the questions remain - How can a parent not love their children? I am a parent and I can't imagine doing to my kids what my parents have done. It is unfathomable!

[flower]

Hi Everyone,

These narcissists will dominate and control your life, try to convince you that they know all the answers only and beat you down when you show any sign of independence.

 I've found this to be true.

 ------------------------------------------------------

Thanks so much for your insight and support.
 It aided my healing. Too much of my heart
was in this post to let it remain here for posterity on the web.
The post served its purpose and now it is time to
edit it or gently take it down.
 
To every thing there is a season, and a time
to every purpose under the heaven:  Ecclesiates 3:1

------------------------------------------------------------

[mrt]

MrTraced,
Actually I just admitted to living a lifestyle they despise - they are fundamentalists and think people are terrible if they socially drink, smoke and cuss. They wouldn't call me to talk about it so a month later I called them. They acted like nothing had happened! So I asked if they received my package and N mom started crying and said she refused to read my letter. It just amazes me that she cries over boken objects, but has no emotions after a 4 year separation of only talking a couple times a year!

I'm working on healing but the questions remain - How can a parent not love their children? I am a parent and I can't imagine doing to my kids what my parents have done. It is unfathomable!

Ellie,
I think our parents went to the same Narcissist school! They sound just like my parents. Mine are fundamentalists too. (in fact my dad's a minister) Needless to say they don't drink or cuss. Smoking is done in private and hidden from everyone even though everyone knows they smoke. (My parents are southerners - smoking is done on the front porch of the churches down there. But in the Midwest it is a horrible sin! )
   (The next time I run into them I hope I have a beer  in my hand and a smoke in my mouth and say a few things that would cause a sailor to blush!) Their thing wasn't possessions. It was Dad's career. We had to protect his reputation at all costs. I was a good son and lived a decent life. They owe me. I could of been sooo bad but I chose to not embarrass them. I kick myself now for being so easy to raise!    

Why do they act like nothing is wrong? Why won't they acknowledge that they are/were wrong? Why do they pretend like all is forgiven when you know that this infraction or that infraction will come up in a fight 20 years from now? Why do they not care that you call them a few times a year? Doesn't that bother them? Why doesn't it? I don't get it.

Why is it that they don't get that their interaction with me has become a tired, annoying barrage of  snippy little barbs and off hand remarks  etc -  a laundry list of all the things I've done wrong for the past 25 years to hurt them. Why do they hurt so easily? What's with the crying? Tears of what?? Why is everything held against me?  Why can't I make mistakes? Why is everything about them? Why is everything that I've done twisted to make it seem like it was against them when in fact this or that action had nothing to do with them??

My wife and I finally sent them a letter to set up some boundaries. (We suspected them of putting nails in our driveway and phoning all times of the day or night and never speaking! FYI The calls quit the day they would have gotten the letter as did the nails in the driveway. ( My wife works for an attorney and she could really ruin their reputation with a lawsuit or a protective order etc.)) They sent the letter back with the words "Whatever!" on the back of the envelope. (We could see from the roller marks that they had run it through their fax/copier) Ellie,  I bet your mom read your letter. She is probably just lying.
 
What is it about their belief system that made them like they are? Is it that they think they are the "chosen" and just because they don't drink, cuss, etc (fill in the blank) They are God's gift to the world? Do they think they are better than everyone else? Do they think they the only ones going to heaven and the rest of the world is unaware? Do they secretly enjoy their "inside" information  and the "heathens" be damned. Where is the love? Isn't love what being a Christian is all about? That's what Jesus taught. They think they are being persecuted for Jesus. ha (It's their wonderful personalities!)   (If Jesus was on earth they would look down their noses at him)

I'm done venting. (for now)
MrT

[Anonymous]

May I suggest you guys go back and read each and every article on Narcissism by Dr. Grossman.  If you will do that you will understand that the Narcissist has such LOW self-esteem that they need us to be the other that they can put down in order for them to feel better about themself.  That's why we were all so beated down emotionally by them and still are (if you give them the slightest opening).
And why can you have no contact with them and they act as if they don't care?  Because their philosophy of life is, "It's ALL about ME, ME, ME!"  I didn't have any contact except for Xmas and birthday cards for 21 years almost from my Narcissistic mother.  She has no answer as to why she ignored her only child (me) and her only grandchild (my son).  She is now saying she was "scared" to come down to visit and have contact with me.  Well, since I told her finally at 36 what I REALLY thought of her when I finally realized she wouldn't come down to visit us (I moved 1,400 miles away so my son would not be exposed to my sex addict stepfather and their craziness on a continual basis), she may have been scared of having to face the truth I told.
All this shows to me is how TRULY WEAK a Narcissist is in ego-strength, and how much they need to put others down to build themselves up.  It all makes so much sense to me now.  Course, this insight took 50 years...but I finally get it.
And so, again, kids, I say:  get the hell away from them if you can't take the kitchen cause the heat from these unhealthy people won't stop until they are 6 feet under, most likely.  Remember it is YOUR individual responsibility to take care of YOUR OWN MENTAL HEALTH because these selfish Narcissists can't/won't.

[Anastasia]

That last bit was from me.  I keep forgetting to log in as I am on the phone at the same time.  Sorry.

Anastasia