Dr. Grossman

[lighter]

I'm experiencing a difficult time figuring out how to talk about behaviors I find disruptive and corrosive... in 3D life as well as on the board. 

Can you please provide some acceptable responses that challenge behavior we find disruptive....without being more disruptive?

I haven't been able to figure out how to do that yet.... and so far.... it;s a very good reason to allow chaos to flourish and go unchecked in our lives.... bc there's so much disruption in pointing it out or challenging.  It's a very tricky business to overtly point out a covert maneuver.
How do we do that? Here and in 3-D?

I must admit, I haven't a clue as to how to address it in any arena.

I can't even understand all  the ways I've attempted to do it, all of which haven't been so direct. 

All, but the most direct, leave me feeling as though I've been speaking in code, leaving out the most important information without a hope of being understood.

It's a puzzle

[JanetLG]

lighter,

Although Dr Grossman needs to answer your question directly himself, while you're asking, I'd like to add something (which I feel is relevant, anyway!):

When these recent 'flare-ups' occur on the forum from time to time, the issue is often raised that there are no 'forum rules' set out, when people join, telling them what is permissible, and not permissible, to post (in terms of tone, subject matter, etc.

The response we have had from Dr Grossman in the past has been along the lines of  'well, you have all been made voiceless in the past, in various ways, so I don't want to add to that by imposing any rules at all.'

While that may be a good idea in itself, I feel this is unhelpful, as it gives some people the idea that it is OK to behave any way they like, as no-one has a list of rules to point to, in order to correct their behaviour back to common politeness.

As many on here have had dysfunctional parenting (not everyone, I realise, but a lot), some people may not have been brought up to realise what a 'normal' conversation consists of. So, it may be helpful to set out what that is, just so that people understand. That is not making people voiceless, IMO, it is assisting them to have a voice that can be heard respectfully by everyone who comes to this forum.


Janet

[Leah]

What I would like to voice is that while I may have had N parents ....

I was schooled, trained and reared to treat all people with respect and consideration, which is how I have lived my life.

Please let it be known that I did not learn the art of hurling insults, dishing out verbal abusive and slights, or to be ignorant.

Many people in all walks of life wrongly assume that having a dysfunctional family means that one is without basic manners, respect
and courtesy.  In reality, that is not necessarily so.


Thank you, Dr Grossman for this board and I truly appreciate the board in it's entirety.

And as a member of your board .....

>  I appreciate it when someone takes care and consideration to read through my post in a thread and hear my full voice.

>  I appreciate a thoughtful and honest response

>  I appreciate being able to ask questions

>  I appreciate it if someone asks me a question for clarity, if needed, prior to responding to my post.

>  I appreciate respect and consideration, as it is my real heart and soul in real life that I share from.

>  I appreciate it when I am acknowledged for where I stand now in my journey and the validation of me as a person.


As these are the very things that I try my very best to do for others likewise.

Thank you for my voice.

Respectfully,

Leah

[Ami]

It seems to me that since  we are supposed to be adults,  Richard should not be in the role of parent(teacher, warden) .
                             Ami

[Leah]

It seems to me that since  we are supposed to be adults,  Richard should not be in the role of parent(teacher, warden).
                             Ami

Dear Ami,

May I ask a question.

Are you personally acquainted with Dr Grossman ? 

Thinking maybe business or family friend associate.

Respectfully,

Leah


PS   Yesterday you told us clearly that you had to report a thread to 'teacher'  so now I am naturally confused somewhat.

[Ami]

The teacher is a safety valve,only(IMO).It is like the police. S/times you need them,but you really DON'T want to be in that position too often. IF you are,your life is not ordered,but disordered. It is your job as an adult to use the police, sparingly,as I see it AND to order your life so it is not neccessary to have the police living in your back yard,as I see it.

[Leah]

The teacher is a safety valve,only(IMO).It is like the police. S/times you need them,but you really DON'T want to be in that position too often. IF you are,your life is not ordered,but disordered. It is your job as an adult to use the police, sparingly,as I see it AND to order your life so it is not neccessary to have the police living in your back yard,as I see it.

Dear Ami,

Innocent Domestic Violence victims may not agree with your statement.

Respectfully,

Leah

[Ami]

At SOME point, they need to know HOW to live WITHOUT  parental(teacher, warden) intervention,IMO.          Ami

[Certain Hope]

Dear Lighter,

I'm guessing that the preferred way to clear the air is by focusing on "I (feel)" statements instead of on the appalling behaviours themselves?

With love,
Carolyn

[Hopalong]

hi all,

I recall a while back when Dr. G. shared with us how large a job running this board is for him. Running it and tending it, without active moderation, consumes a very big piece of his time. His volunteer time. Because he's such a mensch, this is an enormous mitzvah he offers the world. I would very very reluctant to ask him to intervene and help people learn how to get along with each other here, except in extreme cases when he must step in briefly to set a limit.

I hope that we can see this board as our own U.N., a microcosm of all the types of people we might encounter in 3-D life.

Doc G is a therapist, but he's not our therapist.

My motive in leaping to say this is not all altruistic...I would miss the board a lot if he decided he could no longer do it. I am sad to think of how he might feel reading what his creation has come to, with the ranting and counter-ranting.

I want to remember what it might be like for him to sit down every day and read all these posts. It's not the same for us, who can dip in and out, be whatever identity we want to be, etc. He's here, every day, holding us in faith that we can help ourselves and help each other.

Let's do that.

Hops

[Ami]

Thank you ,Hops. I totally agree. WHEN I had to go to Richard,I did not like it. It was simply the last resort. You are right,IF s/one needs therapy to deal with issues of HOW to get along with people(OR any issues), they should get therapy-----NOT ask Richard(IMHO)       Ami

[JanetLG]

Hops,

I agree that running a forum takes time. I think Dr Grossman said before that it takes a third of his working time, or something? Perhaps 15 hours a week, possibly? Perhaps I'm wrong on the hours, but it's part-time, anyway. I agree that he has stated that he started the forum to help voiceless people.

What I'm saying is that with other forums, basic ground rules HELP people to get the most out of the forum. I'm not suggesting that Dr Grossman offers therapy at all. I didn't suggest, either, that Dr Grossman moderates the forum himself, either. I wasn't suggesting active moderation - the moderation he does do already is very, very much 'in the background'. If he chooses to 'look in' when he has the time, that's all that can be expected.

But I do think that ANY forum with  no ground rules is asking for trouble, and a forum with members such as there are on here, is asking for bigger trouble, from time to time.

This is all sounding very familiar, unfortunately, and I've only been a member since May this year.


Janet

[Ami]

THEN --WHO is going to have to enforce the rules----Richard. If we are TOO much of babies, we might lose the WHOLE board,as Hops said                  Ami

[Leah]

Dear Lighter,

I'm guessing that the preferred way to clear the air is by focusing on "I (feel)" statements instead of on the appalling behaviours themselves?

With love,
Carolyn

Dear Carolyn,

Apparently, that has been tried before, and, in addition, I do tend to choose "I feel"

Certainly did use "I feel" statements before I left the board in May and I * saw * others do the same.

Also, Consideration and Respect is so simple and it's free! 

I really do appreciate Consideration and Respect, truly, I do.

Love, Leah

[Hopalong]

I understand, Janet....
I don't feel critical of you at all for asking about rules or wanting some.
I don't even know if it's wise or unwise to be willing to float forward w/o them. Truly. I dunno.

I think I just have a hunch that sorting things out on our own, however clumsily.
will build more strength in folks here than waiting for him to do it.
My hunches can be good intuition or bad posture, though!

Here's a rule:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Know what just occured to me? One of the ways I/we often identify as unhealthy is the place in me where I do not love myself. So maybe even the simplicity of the Golden Rule is much harder than it looks.

If I am consumed with self, and have a lot of self-loathing...as you suggest, how would I know how to behave? Wow. Self-loathing would mean that on some level, I WANT other people to be abusive to me (because that feels deeply familiar) Sounds obvious now (thwacks self on head) but I guess that's what a lot of this rawness and rudeness has been about. Those who are offensive may be literally asking for a fight, because receiving emotional or physical blows feels familial.

I meant to say familial.

Thanks for your usual thoughtfulness, ((((Janet))).

love
Hops