reactions: what if I told you your behavior bugs me?

[reallyME]

I was wondering about this today.

If I came across an adult, who was very neeeeeeeedy, clingy, insecure and wanted to seriously just attach to me, who when I talked, would stare at me endlessly, waiting for my sentences in order for her to know how to respond, who had object constancy problems to a point that she couldn't handle hanging up the phone with me when i had to leave, and who would threaten suicide when I told her I wanted to end things....

If I told such an adult that their behavior was childish, possibly passive-aggressive, maybe borderline, and irritating, would they  do the following:

1.)  say something like "you're just like the rest of them.  They ALL leave me.  I can't have friends cause I drive them all away."

or

2.)  get angry and say "FINE! you weren't worth my time anyway."

or

3.)  say, "Wow, I didn't know my behavior was making you feel so uncomfortable.  I think I need to talk to a counselor about this."


Just to let you know, there are some people who I have come across in my life, who irritated the bejeebers out of me in this way.  RARELY have they responded like #3.  I encourage any of you, who see yourself or someone else in the above scenario, to lean toward/suggest that they lean toward #3 more often than not.  Being on the other side of things is not any more pleasant than being the one with the problems.

Comments welcome

~Laura

P.S.  the majority of these people came from online of course.  Do they think they can hide so they do it all the more?

[tayana]

My experience has been that people who exhibit borderline behavior aren't likely to seek out a counselor unless forced to do so. Borderlines would like answer with #1.  Someone who's emotionally healthy is more like to choose #3.  If said person is threatening suicide to avoid abandonment, the most you could do is suggest they get help, offer to take them and explain the situation.  They aren't likely to change.

My mother is borderline and narcissistic.  She's threatened suicide several times to get her way.  I've had to call emergency services before because I was afraid she'd hurt herself or someone else.  They don't change.  They just find other people willing to play their games.

[gratitude28]

Laura,
I think I have always been very sensitive to people being "bothered" by me. If it is someone I care about (almost all people), I would feel very hurt and angry with myself. I would probably lick my wounds for a while and then really look at myself to see what I was doing and why I was acting that way towards the person. I used to feel I was always annoying to people, so it is taking me a long time to recognize when I DON'T need to apologize too. I have a friend I spoke to recently on the telephone, and I said something that gave him pause. I worry that I may have offended him, and I don't know whether to let it go (a 20 plus year friendship, he will accept me as flawed?) or to apologize. Those situations are hard for me.
Thanks for a very good topic.
Love, Beth

[Ami]

Dear Beth,
 I am seeing a very important thing(for me). When I am "hurt" ,it is usually my "false" self that is hurt. I saw  parts of myself that I did not like, recently, I wanted to go in to a shame spiral, but I didn't. I was able to see that my" false self"is the one that gets hurt. It is the shame that always tells me that I am "bad" which has been "injured" ---NOT the real me(core). It is hard to explain,in words.
  I am seeing that my "core self "is  fine. My problems come when I feel and act out of shame(I AM bad). then,I need others to  NEVER  find fault with me. IF they do,it pushes my shame button. The answer is to 'tweak" my shame  button ,so it is not so "sensitive". My own self love is the answer,I think.
 I see most of my problems in life as trying to out run that horrible monster of shame. However, when I face it,it is just a shivering coward---- telling me lies.                          Love   Ami

[reallyME]

I think the verse in the Bible that says of Jesus, "He made himself of no reputation," has been very useful for me in facing and moving past some of the board posts.

When I made Jesus my Lord, my "controller" if you will, life stopped being all about me, false self, real self, other self, inner self, whatever.  I'm here for Him now, and what is said against me, is being said against Him...and, no, for those spiritual abuse victims on here, I do not mean to proclaim myself as God.  I'm saying, my purpose for being here, is to serve and honor Jesus, so say what you will...it rolls off or is taken back to Him.
 
Try that if you want, Ami.  If they are persecuting Him in us, it takes the flack off us as humans, where it's not deserved.

~Laura

[Ami]

Dear Laura,
 THAT is a profound insight. I CAN see it working in you. You are much less sensitive to criticism than you used to be. You are more confident and forthright with your opinions. You have more joy and can see the 'zaniness" of life better. You seem  more balanced.
  NOW,I can see WHY . You are trying to forget about yourself . You don't need to be so self protective b/c you realize that your worth is in God.
  When I asked you the question of "What happened to you b/c you seem different?" I think that you just gave me the answer .Thanks Laura                             Love    Ami

[Certain Hope]

If they don't answer like I hope they would, I'm learning s-l-o-w-l-y to let it GOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo.  It's not my job to fix my friends.  My job is to be a friend.  There's a difference.

bean

   ((((((((((((Bean))))))))))) Thank you for that timely reminder! As much of my previous "fixer" role as I've been able to relinquish, there's still this persistent tendancy to relapse within my most intimate relationships.

Love to you, dear Bean, and Merry Christmas!

Carolyn

[reallyME]

Yes, now here is where it gets tricky.  I am a minister, a pastoral counselor at present.  Sometimes I have to be rather up-front with the people I'm working with.  There is no room for "if you feel like telling me," because those people will avoid me with everything in them.  I don't give them a way "out" because, their health depends on their openness and honesty with God, themselves and with me.

~Laura

[Leah]

Yes, now here is where it gets tricky.  I am a minister, a pastoral counselor at present.  Sometimes I have to be rather up-front with the people I'm working with.  There is no room for "if you feel like telling me," because those people will avoid me with everything in them.   I don't give them a way "out" because, their health depends on their openness and honesty with God, themselves and with me.

~Laura

Dear Laura,

Interesting, so, how do you go about getting them to tell you?

Love, Leah

[reallyME]

well, with the one lady, she knows me well enough to realize that if she isn't doing what she needs to do, I will call her on it, and because we've been together a long while, and weathered storms of 'fear of abandonment, rejection,unforgiveness, codependency issues together, she knows when I say things to her, it really IS for her good.  She has seen that I have not steered her wrong, that she has grown in all areas of her life, especially in her self-esteem, and that, even if something goes wrong, I'm there for her.

I'm probably one of the toughest mentors you'll ever meet, but when people apply what I tell them, they change and grow and are happy in their lives.

I give all glory to God for having the priviledge of carrying His love and power into every life He entrusts to me.

~Laura

[Bella_French]

Laura, Sometimes its a reaction to fear of your reaction. Thats hard to face too, I know. If you're too critical and lacking in empathy, it can arouse the vulnerability of others. The only behaviour you mentioned that doesn't fit with that is threatening suicide. If some i knew tried that (and they have, actually), I just would avoid them because the behaviour is manipulative.

[Lupita]

"People who are relatively free of narcissistic traits (most of us have some) do not attempt to place themselves above others. They are unconcerned with such comparisons. They stay in touch with their feelings and try to do their personal best. Their standards are internal and realistic since they have a good idea of who they are and what they can accomplish (such objectivity is not insignificant). They are not free of idealistic wishes and dreams.

Narcissists are wholly different. They unconsciously deny an unstated and intolerably poor self-image through inflation. They turn themselves into glittering figures of immense grandeur surrounded by psychologically impenetrable walls. The goal of this self-deception is to be impervious to greatly feared external criticism and to their own roiling sea of doubts

This means that when you tell an N that a behavior is bothering you, the N will repeat the behavior more often. As opposed to a "normal" person who will try not to step on your toe at your petition.

[Leah]

Dear Lupita,

That's wise insight of which I am making a note of in my journal notebook.

Thank you, truly, it's affirming and validating.

Love, Leah

[Certain Hope]

"People who are relatively free of narcissistic traits (most of us have some) do not attempt to place themselves above others. They are unconcerned with such comparisons. They stay in touch with their feelings and try to do their personal best. Their standards are internal and realistic since they have a good idea of who they are and what they can accomplish (such objectivity is not insignificant). They are not free of idealistic wishes and dreams.

Narcissists are wholly different. They unconsciously deny an unstated and intolerably poor self-image through inflation. They turn themselves into glittering figures of immense grandeur surrounded by psychologically impenetrable walls. The goal of this self-deception is to be impervious to greatly feared external criticism and to their own roiling sea of doubts

This means that when you tell an N that a behavior is bothering you, the N will repeat the behavior more often. As opposed to a "normal" person who will try not to step on your toe at your petition.

Dear Lupita,

Yes!! I have never understood the capacity of NPD to continue doing just exactly that thing which she/he knows is repulsive to you.
This goes so far beyond "annoying" into the ludicrous... impervious, indeed! Oblivious, too!

Thank you so much, Lupita.

Love to you,
Carolyn

[reallyME]

BellaFrench: If some i knew tried that (and they have, actually), I just would avoid them because the behaviour is manipulative.

I find this response concerning.  It is a proven fact that people who threaten it, are not just doing it for attention.  I'd have to be really sure that the person was just using the threat of it to control/manipulate, before I just avoided them.  I've also come across people who threatened suicide, and my response was generally to refer them for help at a treatment center.

One person who was borderline and regularly threatened suicide, was so convincing of other things, that I was afraid if I tried to get her help, she'd kill herself just because she feared having to go for the help.

I'm very glad to say that this woman eventually got her life back on track, by using her recovery tools,  and, last I heard, she is doing much better.

~Laura