the spiritual impact of N mothering

[mighty mouse]

Hi All,

I just wanted to weigh in on the forgiveness issue.

I personally don't feel that I have the power to forgive...that only a higher power can forgive. I feel like "acceptance" is the only thing I can acheive.
And that works for me. I have accepted that NMother doesn't love me. Yes, she would truly feel bad if I died. But she doesn't really know how to love and doesn't even know me or want to know me. I am okay with that since I've accepted it.

The dictionary decsription says that forgiveness is an act of pardon. I know that's not the theological theory and maybe is a bit too literal for some. But I still feel like forgiveness has that element even though some say may argue otherwise.

I do feel like forgiveness can be mutually arrived at only if the wrong doer accepts responsibility, has remorse, demonstrates that they won't repeat the act, tries to repair the damage and asks for forgiveness. This will never happen with an N, only a sincerely repentent person can acheive this. And I feel like that is the only way that I can forgive.

But just to forgive a person who isn't repentent is a matter for a higher power IMO. Anyway, it works for me.

MM

[Dawning]

I haven't got the inner strength to deal with adversity. In my life I have gone from relationship to relationship (with men) avoiding being alone at all costs.

On the spiritual impact of N-mothering and relationship:

I am looking for a guide to help me define relationship.  To me, I think it means sharing sometimes and being alone sometimes but with a commitment.  I have read alot of Krishnamurti and I think he would scoff at the idea of commitment.  To him, commitment seems to imply attachment and that *detachment* is the supreme level of awareness - learned that from my former SO too who introduced me to Krishnamurti.  So if anyone has an alternative definition of relationship, I would be very interested in hearing more about it.  Becaue I got to thinking that in order to have a relationship with him, I had to detach from the idea of relationship.  

My mother always held the fear of abandonment over me like a carrot so she could get me to do what she wanted.  Now she is trying to use guilt.  My father really did abandon me but is in severe denial which he probably deals with on the golf course.  As for forgiving them, I have already done that.  But they don't feel they need to be forgiven.  So my voice means nothing to them.  That I have forgiven them is enough for ME - now I am trying to recover and my mother, in particular, is not happy with this because she is not getting enough attention from me.  

Also getting to know yourself and practicing doing stuff alone, so you can be less dependent and more autonomous. I think autonomy is more important than spirituality at this point. And they are the same thing anyway

Interesting.  Certainly don't have a problem with it - and I agree that it does make one climb ever higher on the path to spirituality.  But I don't think it is normal to live alone as long as I have and having programmed myself to believe that no support exists - this is how I managed to continue wanting to meet my ex-SO for so long...what a destructive rationalization I created.   I'd like to meet someone/friends who don't want me to be a mother but wants an equal and a friend.  Someone who can say they are going out but will come back and who can honor a mature commitment.  But, then, I feel like I am being too needy.  Somewhere in my life, I learned that my own needs were bad but fulfilling my mother's and grandmother's needs was the reason I am here.  I got far, far away from them.  But sometimes I think that if I don't confront these two women, I will get myself into situations where my needs and others' needs turns into a struggle to get our individual needs met and that is not good and not a path to a real relationship.  So I guess the answer is to sit down and assess what my needs are and not fear them.  That is the first step.  And I wonder how much discipline that takes.

Maybe if you change the word 'love' to 'higher awareness,' it will make more sense.

Bunny, thank you for this beautiful gift.

[Anonymous]

I am looking for a guide to help me define relationship.  To me, I think it means sharing sometimes and being alone sometimes but with a commitment.  I have read alot of Krishnamurti and I think he would scoff at the idea of commitment.  To him, commitment seems to imply attachment and that *detachment* is the supreme level of awareness - learned that from my former SO too who introduced me to Krishnamurti.  So if anyone has an alternative definition of relationship, I would be very interested in hearing more about it.  Because I got to thinking that in order to have a relationship with him, I had to detach from the idea of relationship.

There was the relationship you wanted (committed), and there was the relationship he wanted (no commitment). So the relationship couldn't continue. At some point you required a commitment to keep going; and he required that you adopt a no-commitment stance. Two people have to agree on the future goal of the relationship, otherwise, forget it.
 

bunny

[Dawning]

There was the relationship you wanted (committed), and there was the relationship he wanted (no commitment). So the relationship couldn't continue. At some point you required a commitment to keep going; and he required that you adopt a no-commitment stance. Two people have to agree on the future goal of the relationship, otherwise, forget it.

Yes, true.  I guess I am going through a transition after 7 years with the same man and learning that what you said above is true.  It is so hard for me to tell myself that what I want is normal and that I have a right to it.
Bunny, thanks for helping me with this.