Reality check

[Lupita]

I agree with you 85%. I believe that you can make your children used to something you do. I played with my son all his life. We went to the beach together, made sand castles, painted a fence together, played transformers on the floor, watch cartoons, went to the movies, I nejoyed my son company all his life. I never said here are your toys, play. I said here are your toys let us play. It is now when suddenly he does not want to play with me anymore. We play duets at church, we play four hands, tow pianos, i tought him how to play the piano.
I know, he has to be independent, but you can still enjoy sharing activities with somebody you love. Like fathers who go hunting with thier sons. I played tennis with my son. He does not want to play with me anymore. We went to the swimin pool. He odes not want to do it anymore.
I know he has to grow, that does not mean he will cut me off his life. That is why I felt so happy today when he rought a friend to my apartment and spent three hours here watching a movie. I felt a mother again. I felt I had a son. His friend was very nice. He made conversation with me. He did not ignore me like GF.
In fact, just after this visit, i feel comfortable. He left and told me he was going to see GF. I did not feel bad. I just had my fair share of attention.
You are right in that I can tell him the "I" thing. I dont want him to feel bad or guilty. I will tell him how much I enjoyed his visit today.
I remember when he had five or six friends and I cooked for everybody, and they palyed nintendo until after midnight, and I had to threaten them for them to go to sleep.
I remember when I got as many as could fit in my car and went to the movies, came back home, cook, then pick them up and then feed them.
I rememebr when we went to Barnes and Noble just to read books and have a capuccino.
We went to the beach with several books, and read in front of the ocean.
I miss him.

I cannot imagine him going to the beach with GF with books. He will try to read something and she will tickle him, and never let him read a paragraph. She wants constant attention. I believe that he will not survive that and other things. he just does not know.

But, as you said, i have to show sympathy. Fake it till you make it. Just for my son. So he does not go away.

Now i have to spend New year with the same people if I want to be close to my son. What a pain!!

[Ami]

Dear Lupita,
  I was close to my two sons in the same way that you were I was really surprised at myself ,but I did not mind when they had g/f's. I "thought" that I would . However, for some reason. I don't "need" them to be there for me.I love spending time with them,but I don't "need" it. I sound so healthy that it surprises me(lol)
 With my children, I had the healthy part of me parent them.The "crazy" part ,from my M,I pushed to the side, in my role as parent. I paid homage to the "gods'(evil) by throwing them my body and a large part of my mind, but when it came to my kids, my mind was off limits. I think that my healthy way of parenting stayed until ,now. I am happy when they have g/f's. My younger son had a g/f in college .He had one of those deep heart /mind connections.They broke up and he doesn't want to just 'date' or have a g/f unless it is a "soul" connection. I was not jealous of this connection or of my other son's present g/f.
  I think that I am having a life now that I am starting to "possess". I am finding my voice and I have hope. Lupita,I think that your own  emptiness is what is making you want to hold on too tightly to your son. Compost in the "usual manner"(lol) what does not fit.     Ami

[Hopalong]

I miss him.

I know, (((((Lupita)))). I understand.

It's hard, when they really really leave.

It means we have to face that this chapter is over.
Active mothering. We'll always be the mother who raised them.
But we have to know when to stop.

I had a rough time figuring it out, but I'm getting it now.
It was a very hard transition, especially when I was so lonely
and my child seemed like the only source of love in my life.

It put too much pressure on her. I had to make myself responsible
for my own happiness. Finding my own friends, new passions for my life.

It will get better. His GF is just one example of his separateness.
Even if he makes a mistake, it's important to let him make them.
Let him own them. That's the only way he'll learn.

love
Hops

[Lupita]

Ami, I am reluctant to think that your recent invigorating  voice is genuine. Remember that you just had an affair and according to your own  words those are pain killers. Remember that love affairs produce an enormous amount of endorphines to be liberated from the brain to produce a false sensation of wellness similar to cocaine etc. You know that. Please, do not get offended, I am just expressing my thoughts, if that makes you feel bad I will erase it. These thoughts come from many books that I have studied, not from judging you. So, please do not think I am judging you because I am not. Promise you. I am not stating anything as wrong or right or good or bad, nothing, just a scientific deduction from what I have learned.

Hopalong, you are making me so sad. At least your D is 30 yo. Mine is only 22 and left at 17. Hopalong, I know you are right, I know that CB is right. It is just too hard to digest. It is going to take a long long long time for me to be able to accept that my son is just trying to be independent and I have to encourage that. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish we could get together and share pictures of our babies and cry and drink and ask God why do they have to grow up.

[Hopalong]

Lup, I'd love to hear how adorable he was.
I bet he was a beautiful, wonderful fabulous baby!.
Handsome...big brown eyes, sikly hair, great laugh.
And musical, what a joy to watch him learn the piano.

My little (!) girl was incredible to me. A daily wonder.
I have a photo I love, if I knew how to scan something
I'd post it...she's about 2 and a half, all full of herself,
a big gummy squinty grin because of the sunlight,
and a huge sunflower beside her is bending over toward her
as though it's a big kind animal, and there's a fat drunk
bumblebee in the center of it, content and unthreatening.

and cry and drink and ask God why do they have to grow up

Be glad to join you, this round's on me.
Except I'd be asking the question: Why do I have to grow up? 

love
Hops

[Lupita]

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He has green eyes. He had blue eyes at birth and they were turning green with time. When he wears green shirts, it reflects a sea green on his eyes that I contemplate breathless. His smile is the most inoscent and sincere you can find in the world. He is a mixture of latin-irish. Can you imagine how passionate he is?

And your baby? what color of eyes she has? Hair? smile?

I made a poem to my son. because he plays music. I called the Poem "Little Bird"

of course it is in Spanish.

But more or less it says:

Dear little bird, never stop singing because your song gives me energy to keep going upwards up the hill against so many obstacles.
Dear little bird, never stop singing becuase your sound helps me breath and gives me inspiration for my daily wlak.
Dear little bird, never stop singing because your music gives support to my legs that sometimes refuse to sustain me.

And on and on many verses that in Spanish make a very nice rhyme.

I am crying right now, believe it or not. You have no idea how much my son and I have had to endure in this life, and he alwasy was positive and i was a negative bitch. He survived despite me not thanks to me. he is a wonderful person.

[Lupita]

I was crying when he was taking a nap in my house. Now he is gone and he told me that he wants to spend the night at GFM when I repeatedly told her that I wanted to sleep at my house. She trespassed my boundaries and convenced and invited and lured my son in to doing it.

[Hopalong]

But she doesn't control him EITHER, Lup.
He made the choice.

When we demonize the other women in our sons' lives, we set up years of conflict.

She can try to control him, but he is an adult. He is completely responsible for his own choices.
So, if she nagged him to spend the night against your wishes, well, HE still chose to go. See?

Don't make him an angel and her a demon. It won't help.

(I am positive he WAS an angel when he was little...but now he's just another adult. Bless him.
And if he becomes a tugrope between two competing women, the one certainty is that he'll be miserable.)

Let him gooooooooooo....
(I just called my D's cell phone, and she's on Interstate 85 in the rain, following her friend who's driving the UHaul, destination 18 hours away...) 

My D's hair was white-blonde when she was tiny (once she finally got some, she was bald for ages) and now it's long, thick chestnut brown. She's got a dimple, hazel eyes, a wonderful smile, and tattoos. Dragon, eagle, animal paws, and a religious symbol. Oy. And a couple of other things. Oy OY.

love,
Hops

[Lupita]

Thank you Hop. there is so much redundance here. I will try. Easy to say, difficult to do. I am trying, believe me. I wm trying.

I just wrote him an e mail. I told him I am not going to bother him today or tomorrow. Or Sunday morning. I will only call after church on Sunday. I will comply.

[Hopalong]

You're trying SUPER hard.

lots of credit to you!

Hops