Sinking...

[rosencrantz]

When my father died, I entered another world; when I discovered the extent of my mother's disaffection, I entered yet another world.  

Today I entered another one.

This pillar of righteousness, my husband.  The person who speaks kindly of everyone, who will do anything for anyone, is a stickler for integrity and his word, never late.  He will make promises and reassurances and agreements so you will feel great and think he is wonderful.

I also know that he 'says' he will do things, but frequently agrees to do conflicting things.  He forgets or puts off or never gets round to the things he can't or won't do or doesn't actually want to do.  I am 'forced'  to remind him and remind him and remind him (a nag!) to do the things he has offered or agreed to do.  He is incapable of delegating.  His utter rage is always bubbling under but remains unacknowledged.  

He is patronising and arrogant.  He is also moody and fearful.  He says he is only these things when 'subjected' to me.  I make him that way.  I am an authority figure for him (to him I am like his father - but his father was an alcoholic, irrascible, a failure in middle age).

Yet how I experience it is that one day he is cheerful within himself, another day he is not.  Who knows which way the wind will blow.  Sometimes I give my perspective on what's going on, I seek the truth from him - he likens me to a cat playing iwth a mouse.

Discussion is difficult.  He sees it as either/or - him or me.  Mostly he retains his own belief inside but appeases me by agreeing with me. So there is no discussion, no sharing, no resolution.  I feel utter frustration.  I feel contempt for the cowardice.  

He acts as my servant to appease me - I hate this and I'm always trying to stop him.  On the other hand, the narcissistic princess created by my mother accepts his servitude.

He competes unconsciously with my son for my praise.  He disclaims jealousy but demands my exclusivity.  He says something to put me down; I feel wiped out; I act offended; he tells me there's something wrong with me.  I've discovered it happens when my son and I share a good moment together (it's already a rare occurrence and he spoils it.  I am shocked!)

When we first met, he was clever and intelligent.  He used to laugh a lot at work - then he stopped.  One person said I was the best thing that ever happened to him; someone else blamed on our marriage the fact he no longer laughed at work.  Certainly he mellowed.  I 'humanised' this workaholic.  Perhaps I made him see himself for who he is.  How can someone stop being clever and intelligent?  He no longer seems to believe in himself.  Have I undermined him so totally?  

He said recently that when we got married he believed that I was out to get him - he no longer believes that 'intellectually' (!).  

I have given him honest, unequivocal support for things that others might deem pie in the sky; he appreciates it.  He's spent four years honing his skills for a job he still hasn't undertaken (oh, just once he acted - I gave him an ultimatum - earn something this month or help me for the next two months during my busy season using skills you have which I don't. He earned £20.  I still feel conned by a 'trick')

I've experienced betrayal of a kind.  He was to be made redundant.  We began a business together.  His boss called, he dropped me like a hot cake.  Suddenly the business had always been 'mine' and not for us - ??!

I have talked to him recently about the concept of passive-aggression.  Last night we talked more (tried to!).  I was totally open and he aimed for the heart.  I stared at him, my eyes filled with tears and then I spoke in absolute rage and contempt.  He did to me what my mother had done.

He (finally) admitted the extent of his underlying rage - he is, he said, so full of bile and rage and sarcasm. He uses it to undermine. He has no mercy.

The truth after 17 years of marriage.

The fact he was prepared to put a voice to what goes on inside must offer hope. But still, even as he shared this information, he continued to try to demolish me with sarcasm from superior heights.  But I shared a greater, harder truth.  I am La Belle Dame sans Merci.  It checked him.

What have I done?  Sold my soul again for companionship, motherhood and a home?  Am I the destructive 'N' or am I the 'Teddy' of Patricia Evans' Controlling People?  Has he ever related to 'me' at all?  I know full well that none of us sees 'the other' as anything other than our projections - so perhaps I am just hypersensitive after everything else that's happened.

In my life now, everything that is 'normal' is 'not normal' and everything that is 'not normal' is 'normal'.  I feel ill.  And I've written far too much again. Sorry!  I am...defeated.
R

[Nic]

Dear Rosencrantz,
Once we have made a break for it and in this case to Heal..all kinds of things can happen.  We come face to face with ourselves, with our truths. Ultimately something True and valuable will come of your present predicament.  Because now you are adding like numbers. 1 plus 1 equals 2..FINALLY!  The truth will set you free, and you are now obviously ready to see it, to hear it , to feel it.
Who were you 15 years ago, certainly not the same person you are today.  And that's ok! really it is..because no matter what you think, or look back on and want to do, like everyone here you built your house on a rocky foundation.  So be it.  Same for me.  
Sarcasm is often described as the weapon of the weak, I would add it's the weapon of the hurting.  I am an adult child of an alcoholic-pill-popping mother, that hurt!  It is part of my rocky foundation and when I read your post today I remembered all the times I was sarcastic with friends and very hurtful to them.  It hurt me to know you were caused pain by this. The pain of having a parent who is addicted to alcohol/pills/drugs is indescribable Rosencrantz.  I remember being paralyzed many times during a week or a month..just stalled there, procrastinating etc.  I reached out then to people who were strong and provided me with guidance and gave me a little shove now and then.
Of course later on after studying the ACOA thing I became somewhat better.  I don't know how to say this other than this way: change is a very challenging and threatening thing to an adult child of alcoholics.  I remember fearing it because in my own way I had become "addicted" to the pattern set by my parents.  She drinks, don't react to it..I was going around with the rest of my family with a tee-shirt that said to the world: There is no problem here!
I'm sure you've heard it all before Rosencrantz.  It does get tiring to be the motivator in someone else's life.  In a way it's a very good thing you are getting tired of having people feed on you, even if it's your husband.  Sarcastic or not, it's time for him ( as it was for me at one time) to do some of the real work.
Hannah Arendt in her great work The Origins of Totalitarianism made a great distinction between Labour and Work.  To labour is to take care of the basic needs, To work means to confront the realities in our spirit and mind..it is the REAL WORK, creativity, the search for truth etc..
AND to her, the origins of totalitarianism is FEAR.  If we become fearful enough, and panicked enough, and unfocussed enough, some dictatorial Narcissist will see us as an opportunity.  Let's not fear.
My thoughts are with you as well as my prayers,
Nic

[CC]

Dear R,

I seem to be at a loss for words with everyone tonite, but just wanted to let you know I am really sorry to hear that you are feeling like this. I'll make a few bold suggestions that sometimes apply to me, since that's the only scope of perspective and research I have.

 When in the throes of healing, we tend to start examining every relationship with a magnifying glass - and we see flaws that are not obvious to the naked eye- or in day to day life.

In no way am I suggesting that your husband does not have areas that he needs to change. However, I might suggest that your husband has taken the first step - acknowledging he is not perfect. Just curious, since he has admitted it exists - Is your husband willing to explore his rage, and its source? Most likely it has something to do with that authoritarian father you mentioned.  

We have talked many times on this website about varying degrees of narcissism and other dysfunctions.  I would venture to say that given that realization, and the fact that he is attempting to talk to you however feebly, indicates some is hope that he is not a full-blown narcissist, and may respond positively to certain behaviors.

Interesting your H calls you a nag.  I get that too.  Unfortunately, I am learning the hard way that some of the behaviors my husband engages in are a direct result of some of my OWN controlling, narcissistic behaviors that I unconciously slip into.  We are working furiously at correcting this together.  In no way do I suggest that we are the "cause" of being disrespected.  However, sometimes our behaviors trigger our husbands rage buttons, just like theirs do ours.

One thing I really try to practice is asking myself regularly -

1) What am I trying to get my husband to do and why
2) Am I asking him to change who he is to do it  
3) Am I compromising myself too much (marriage involves SOME compromise) to allow him to be who he is (if he doesn't do "it", whatever "it" is

This often gets me through things with him where I find myself frustrated and hurt.  

You poor dear.   I tend to regress to the fairy tale situation, and really want people's marriages to work out.  So I am optimistic.  My take is this: you could probably work this stuff out with him over some time.  The problem is you are exhausted with all the other stuff you've been dealing with and have run out of YOU.  Remember what you said in a previous post to me, about not recovering from the other situation to deal with this new one - except this is on a HUGE scale.

I have been seeing all your stuff the few days - I am wondering if you are overloading yourself with information and pain processing.  Reading books, visiting here, journaling etc.   TAKE A BREAK.  Since we are NPD children, we tend to be perfectionists - and want to dig, dig, dig, until no stone has been unturned!  Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.    We can see better after we've stepped back a bit.

I would prescribe this: take a quiet bath, go for a manicure, and read the comics.  Go out and plant something in the garden.   Spend a day, and promise yourself you will not visit this website or pick up a book or journal for two whole days.  When you return, everything will still be there - but YOU may have a new perpective.  Your mind will be fresh, and you may come up with a solution for something you can't see right now.

You are not neglecting, you are communicating, and you are dealing with your own stuff. head on. You will discover things about yourself you need to change, and things about your H's behavior that are unacceptable to your own health.  The fact that you may have accepted his sarcasm for the past 17 years does not mean you have sold your soul, or that it is the end.  It simply means, your husband fullfilled certain needs, however unhealthy, when you met.  Now your needs are beginning to change.  As you become healthier, you will be better equipped to do whatever needs to be done to have them met (and I am optimistic it will be with your husband, and I don't mean sexually) .

I really think you are doing great and will figure this all out.  And if it means examining your marriage, so be it.   you've been married for 17 years, so you can take your time to figure it out.  What's another few months?  You don't need to do it all NOW.  

In the meantime -take a tiny break.  Turn off the psyche and rest. (easy for me to say, ha)  Keep the faith, sister.  My cheerleading coach used to say, "Get out your piss and vinegar, and you'll do great"   .

[rosencrantz]

Thank you, both of you - more than I can say, really.
R

[rosencrantz]

Nic - What you said really helped - you stopped me in my tracks with such a different perspective.  Sort of 'oh'...calm.

The agony of 'no-one will ever understand (me)'  was turned on its head because YOU understood HIM.  Such a relief - the burden was no longer on me.  It was HIS... It IS his burden to deal with.  (Can he deal with it, I fear he will despise himself too much, at least I'm USED to the pain, I should take it back - I find myself worrying and 'panicking' "If I don't look after it, and he has to handle it, we'll need help"!!)

(Yes, I hear the child worrying about the mother.)

I experience the same kind of (but more frantic) agony currently in relation to my mother - noone will ever understand HER.  'Oh' (Same realisation as above)...calm(er!).  (Not that calm!!)

As tho I've been chasing around in ever-decreasing circles looking for the wrong 'help' for the wrong person at the wrong time.

Today I'm sort of puzzled as to why I think I need 'help'.  What is this desperation for 'help'?

I mustn't forget that you gave me recognition yesterday and that had a big impact and that I went for a session with my 'healer' last night.

Two 'messages' popped into my head during that session - one was that I was missing the point(!) and the other was 'Believe in me'.

If I believe in me, quite frankly, I don't need 'help'.  It's what other people are 'doing' to me and the way I allow it and feed it and get (enmeshed?) in it that's wrong, that drives me crazy, that shatters my sanity, that has me going round in circles, that gives me a feeling of desperation.

What I 'need' is honest relationships (do they exist - I don't intend to seek something idealised - everyone seems in a tangle of misery and divorce) but I do have a problem with trusting others and I fear inappropriately wanting to be with others too much, and 'damaging' them with my own feelings. And revealing too much.  And, and, and...

But it's true to say that I was in shock from what I discovered about my H - I married him because I was quite sure he would never do to me what my mother did!  He was SO resilient, not 'needy', 'honest and true' (so disciplined and honourable - he would never just 'up and leave me'), 'closed off' - boundaries like castle walls - there was no way there would be any problem with boundaries and confusion of identities!!!!!  

Well that all just came up and bit me on the nose, didn't it!!  LOL

Much calmer today and I really appreciate what you said.
R

[rosencrantz]

Hi CC

What can I say ...but... Yes, yes, er...and yes!

You know me so well...

I've taken it a bit easier (decided against cold turkey - yet!) and even picked up a novel on a couple of occasions.  I've handed over the latest 'self-help' books to my husband to read.

My husband has just turned out to be a much harder nut to 'crack' than I ever realised.  I didn't realise that some people have defences so solid.  But I'm going to do the unbearable and hold up the mirror as often as it takes for his to see.  As that is 'who I am' and 'what I do', I'm going to believe that he married me because deep down that's exactly what he wanted from our marriage...

And, of course, this forum helps me avoid the issue of dealing with my mother.  Far too busy occupied here to take action elsewhere!  

I am starting to 'get organised' for the first time since dad died - and my relationship with my son has been improving by leaps and bounds - so not all is gloom and doom.

But they were a terrible couple of days - I really appreciate what was said here.  
R

[Anna]

but I do have a problem with trusting others and I fear inappropriately wanting to be with others too much, and 'damaging' them with my own feelings.

Trust is a huge huge issue for me too.  In fact it's an issue I'm actively working on.  I see it everywhere in my life -- I don't trust that the teachers REALLY think I deserve that A, I don't trust the guy just having a conversation with my friend (what does that skunk REALLY want?).
I didn't trust my own therapist who touched my arm on the way out the door saying goodbye!!!!!!  It took me three weeks to summon the courage to confront that demon.  He was just being kind -- it was my screwed up perception!!!!!

When I read "damaging them with my own feelings" -- phew -- what a huge burden we share on that one.  Not okay to have feelings OR boundaries.  I never knew where she ended and where I started --  when she died (my mother), I could not believe that she could be dead and I would still be breathing because in my head we were SO CONNECTED!!!  

Thanks for writing and posting and allowing me to share too.....  

[rosencrantz]

I've decided to help my husband remove the ramrod he has for a backbone!

I am inviting him to be kinder to our son's 'inadequacies' - unreliability, lack of discipline and all the things that he has chased out of himself (with disdain for his father).  If he can be kinder, more tolerant and more loving of the 'inadequacies' themselves as he sees them in our son, then he will be kinder to the child in himself.

And he is allowing me to invite him to join with me in finding the humility to be 'ourselves'.  

While we are falsely strong, we damage each other. (I think we've both been playing a complicated game of 'You are weak, so I am strong/You are strong, so I am weak')

Being human, feeling sad, mourning lost opportunities...the loss of youth and youthful aspirations, the loss of hope for good parenting.  None of us can be above all that.  And we're both quite nice people underneath all this.  

The ramrod who would be a willow allows no room for tenderness.  I like the real 'H' - there is gentleness there.  My only fear is if he cannot find it within himself to like and respect who he really is...(someone very different to his military officer father) and really cannot find the middle way between caving in and being enraged.

Actually, he managed yesterday to allow himself to agree with my point AND have a different opinion.  'Both...and' rather than 'either...or'...

The point that somebody made here about ages and stages is something I never properly understood before.  I always assumed I was the last to 'get the message' rather than the first!!

I feel enormous hope right now - I even have a glimpse of us as a truly happy family in the future.  And I feel huge gratitude for this forum and the people involved here..

R

[Nic]

Dear Rosencrantz,
I just was inspired after reading you:
Healing is for everyone, not just for the deserving.  Have you ever thought that after living in the "hyper-world" that is hyper-responsible, hyper-sensitive, hyper-everything, it becomes difficult to return to a slower pace?  I have, some days I feel plenty of peace, i've discovered that this is the real me, peaceful, loving..easy-going.. .  Then I get angry at the thought that my crazy parents dragged me into their anxious and worried lives.  I feel sad at the thought that they taught me the price of everything and the value of nothing..especially my own value.
Now I'm better at detecting what doesn't belong to me.  The sadness that follows is almost like a child waving a handkerchief as the train leaves the station.  
Bye bye sadness, I'm sad you're leaving 'cos I don't know what to do without you.  Au revoir explosive tantrums and verbal assaults on me, i don't know what life will be like without you..I'm scared at the thought of not knowing what lies beyond the horizon.  Auf wiedersehen eggshells, i've walked on you for so long I'm hurting at the thought of wandering here and there without your everpresence.  So long mom and dad, i'm waiving goodbye to you, and I feel very sorry, ever so sorry that you've never really experienced anything but yourselves, if anything at all..

And then I'm off, with the one lovely woman who came into my life, my wife.  We're off together to discover what lies ahead..

Hmm, i've scribbled a visualization!
regards, Nic

[CC]

Rosie, I am so glad you have had a positive response (even if for the moment) after this difficult few days.

I woke up this morning with an amusing analogy of our message board  here.  I feel as though we are all amatuer boxers, going out into the ring -- and we come here to our "corner" between rounds -  and the rest of us are the coaches/managers --watering each other up, wiping our wounds and putting vaseline on our faces to prepare us for the next round...


DING DING!!!!