Safe People

[Gabben]

Hi Leah,

Thank you for expressing your voice !!!!  I hear you, I may not agree with all but I am glad that you expressed yourself.

Peace and hugs,
Lise

[Yamen]

Post deleted.

Yamen, Shy, Watcher, Observer—and various other names.  I have asked you to post under one name.  You are one person with one view of the world.  I, and many others, would appreciate hearing that view.  Your pretending to be many people all of whom share the same view, however, is not allowed on this board.  E-mail me.

Richard

[Gabben]

Hi Yamen,

Is your behavior here safe?

How do you think others and myself here on the board feel when people suddenly pop up out of now where, potential cyber trolls, and insinuate indirectly that someone here is an unsafe person because they expressed their intuitive, or perception, with honesty and respect for the person they were questioning -- such as I did?

Your post is "unsafe."

Will you please tell us who you are and identify yourself to the board? Otherwise, your post and presence is under the pretense of disguise which is dishonest and deceptive.

(On a separate note - I find it interesting that whenever Leah is confronted strange (meaning unfamiliar) people show up out of no where to defend her.)

Is the sock-puppet back? I'm flagging Yamen's post.

Lise

[Certain Hope]

Interestingly, Dr John Townsend's more recent book [2004] entitled

"Who's Pushing Your Buttons: Handling the Difficult People in Your Life"


Dr John Townsend in this more recent 2004 book [as Safe People and avoid those people who are unsafe, was written in 1996]

now has an altogether new approach,

in so much as .... not avoiding ....


~   ~    ~

Which is more in line with how I perceive God in the Bible, as he is very much in the business of us reaching out to people.

Love, Leah

For the sake of clarity, I'd like to note that I've not yet completed the book Safe People. I've been posting about it here in real-time, as I read it, and am only now on the section describing "how we lost our safety".

That being said, I've not read anything yet in this book suggesting that we should give up on people or proceed in anything resembling an unGodly fashion in our relationships. The most I've read so far is the suggestion to proceed with caution when dealing with people who are clearly less than safe. In addition, I'd like to re-quote a reminded which was previously posted, as noted in this book:

Reminder:

"One of the things that we want to emphasize throughout this book is that no one is perfect.
Safe people will at times stumble and be 'unsafe' for, after all, they are sinners, too.
So do not expect perfection.

Instead, when you are measuring someone's character, look at these traits in terms of degrees. Everyone lies at some time or in some way. But not everyone is a pathological liar. Look for degrees of imperfection. If a person seems willing to change, forgive him graciously and work with him. But if he resists you, proceed with caution."

Thus far, I have seen no startling difference in approach between this older book of Drs. Cloud and Townsend and this newer edition of a different book, written to possibly a different audience, about the topic of "difficult" people, and not "safe people".
In an attempt to avoid drawing false conclusions about this book I'm reading, I'll continue - both reading and posting - till the end.

Carolyn

[Ami]

Dear Y Amen,
  I think that when s/one enters a conflict, as you did, as an unknown'"participant", they have greatly diminished their viewpoint.My sense is that you are a regular board member and "we", are like "voting"--we only get ONE vote.          Ami

[Certain Hope]

Hi Yamen,

Is your behavior here safe?

How do you think others and myself here on the board feel when people suddenly pop up out of now where, potential cyber trolls, and insinuate indirectly that someone here is an unsafe person because they expressed their intuitive, or perception, with honesty and respect for the person they were questioning -- such as I did?

Your post is "unsafe."

Will you please tell us who you are and identify yourself to the board? Otherwise, your post and presence is under the pretense of disguise which is dishonest and deceptive.

(On a separate note - I find it interesting that whenever Leah is confronted strange (meaning unfamiliar) people show up out of no where to defend her.)

Is the sock-puppet back? I'm flagging Yamen's post.

Lise

Dear Lise,

Personally, I ignore posts by folks who don't take the time or effort to introduce themselves, and suddenly attempt to insert their opinion out of the clear blue sky on a thread in which they (supposedly) have had no involvement.

To be clear - I'm not saying that you shouldn't address this person, Lise... only stating my view of it, since you mentioned how others on the board feel about such strange (as you qualified the word) posts.  Come to think of it, I haven't stated my feelings yet, have I?

Let's see... is "suspicious" a feeling?  Doubtful. Untrusting. Why? I sense ulterior motives. That's enough reason for me to ignore it.

Thanks for pointing out the un-safeness of the post by Yeman, Lise... I am learning so much!

With love,
Carolyn

[Gabben]

Personally, I ignore posts by folks who don't take the time or effort to introduce themselves, and suddenly attempt to insert their opinion out of the clear blue sky on a thread in which they (supposedly) have had no involvement.

Yep - good idea. I felt that need to say something here -- but ignoring works for me too sometimes.

To be clear - I'm not saying that you shouldn't address this person, Lise... only stating my view of it, since you mentioned how others on the board feel about such strange (as you qualified the word) posts. come to think of it, I haven't stated my feelings yet, have I?

Really good point you made here - I WAS speaking for the board - I missed that one.

Let's see... is "suspicious" a feeling? doubtful. Entrusting. Why? I sense ulterior motives. That's enough reason for me to ignore it.

I hear ya.

Thanks for pointing out the un-safeness of the post by Yeman, Lise... I am learning so much!

Carolyn, Thank you for expressing yourself, validating and supporting me. It helps.


Love,
Lise

[Leah]

On a separate note - I find it interesting that whenever Leah is confronted strange (meaning unfamiliar) people show up out of no where to defend her.)

Is the sock-puppet back? I'm flagging Yamen's post.

Lise

Dear Dr. Grossman

Would you please be so kind as to Confirm that I have nothing whatsover to do with the personage of "Yamen" who posted after Lise's posting of false accusations about me, which were totally unfounded, with her angry emotions.

I am NOT prepared to be dragged through another Gabbenangel episode of Baiting and Gaslighting, as per last year.

Lies and false accusations, sabotage, gaslighting, from my NPD FOO was the reason for my joining this Voicelessness forum.


My ISP is NOT that of Yamen's ISP and I only have 1 Internet provider account.

Thank you Dr Grossman.

Yours Sincerely,

Leah

[Gabben]

On a separate note - I find it interesting that whenever Leah is confronted strange (meaning unfamiliar) people show up out of no where to defend her.)

Is the sock-puppet back? I'm flagging Yamen's post.

Lise

Dear Leah,

Those are my thoughts and that is my voice based on real evidence in the past of strange posters poping up whenever you and I have had a conflict. Who cares if I think it is you, Leah, am I not allowed to think, feel or express? I'm not trying to gaslight or ruin your reputation or image. I am just expressing my intuitive voice.

It sounds to me like you still may be angry about our interaction back in Dec 2007. Well, I understand -- you can be angry at me...express to me how you felt, I may not want to hear it but out of respect for you, I will listen.

However, to defend myself, there was no gaslighting or baiting behavior on my part.

Lise

[Certain Hope]

To be clear - I'm not saying that you shouldn't address this person, Lise... only stating my view of it, since you mentioned how others on the board feel about such strange (as you qualified the word) posts. come to think of it, I haven't stated my feelings yet, have I?

Really good point you made here - I WAS speaking for the board - I missed that one.

Dear Lise,

This is just a very small thing, yet I want you to know...

in that part up above, I was not trying to let you know that I felt you were speaking for the board. Not at all.

I took what you said as an invitation to consider, for myself, how I feel about posts such as that by "Yamen".

As I responded with my "feelings", I realized that I wasn't giving my feelings at all, but rather my thoughts... and I thought, Wow - how do I really feel about it? 

Anyhow, all that to say - thanks again, for the opportunity to look more closely into these dynamics. And I don't feel or think you're doing the tiniest smidgen of gaslighting or baiting, not in any way.

Love,
Carolyn

[Leah]

Dear Lise,

You exercise your right to speak exactly as you wish to, as you have always done, with freedom.

However, please cease in Mind Reading and Fortune Telling

regarding my feelings, and thoughts,

once again, I am not angry, and I remain not angry.

However,

you posted that you were angry, therefore, you own the angry feeling and emotion.


You have posted as you have, and I have merely posting in response, with assertiveness, for my own well being, here on this board,
and also, in real life.


The board is about interaction.


I have also contacted Dr Grossman by email, as you have been most abusive to me, in your posting, with false accusations, and assumptions, TODAY.

Then, a person named "Yamen" posted, presumably, because of what the personage "Yamen" could see for themself.

Question:  

Have you ever stopped to think, consider, that the 30 plus number of Guests are watching what you are typing up onto the board?

Have you ever stopped to think, consider, that one or more of those Guests is able to see clearly what is so obvious?

And have a desire to post accordingly, for themself?

I have.

Leah

[Leah]

Anyhow, all that to say - thanks again, for the opportunity to look more closely into these dynamics. And I don't feel or think you're doing the tiniest smidgen of gaslighting or baiting, not in any way.

Love,
Carolyn

[/b]


Dear Carolyn,

With all due respect, you PM'd me, last year, in the midst, remember?

In Christ, in truth,

Leah

[Gabben]

To be clear - I'm not saying that you shouldn't address this person, Lise... only stating my view of it, since you mentioned how others on the board feel about such strange (as you qualified the word) posts. come to think of it, I haven't stated my feelings yet, have I?

Really good point you made here - I WAS speaking for the board - I missed that one.

Dear Lise,

This is just a very small thing, yet I want you to know...

in that part up above, I was not trying to let you know that I felt you were speaking for the board. Not at all.

I took what you said as an invitation to consider, for myself, how I feel about posts such as that by "Yemen".

As I responded with my "feelings", I realized that I wasn't giving my feelings at all, but rather my thoughts... and I thought, Wow - how do I really feel about it? 

Anyhow, all that to say - thanks again, for the opportunity to look more closely into these dynamics. And I don't feel or think you're doing the tiniest smidgen of gaslighting or baiting, not in any way.

Love,
Carolyn

Thank you Carolyn for your clarity. I wish I could write more but I have another deadline at my job to meet in a few hours. I'll be back and then I will have more time to consider what you have written here.

I appreciate your honesty and forthrightness.

I appreciate your insights -- you are helping me, you are steering, or challenging me to stay on the path, to think deeper and grow...I like that  

Love,
Lise

[Certain Hope]

Anyhow, all that to say - thanks again, for the opportunity to look more closely into these dynamics. And I don't feel or think you're doing the tiniest smidgen of gaslighting or baiting, not in any way.

Love,
Carolyn

[/b]


Dear Carolyn,

With all due respect, you PM'd me, last year, in the midst, remember?

In Christ, in truth,

Leah

Leah,

I do not recall every pm'ing you to tell you that I thought Gabben was baiting or gaslighting you.
I do recall pm'ing you to say that I felt you were under seige by the enemy of our souls, Satan, who is a master of all manner of deception, including gaslighting and baiting.

If I did indeed pm you last year to say that Gabben was guilty of these things, then I was wrong,
and I must apologize to both you and to Lise... because even if I thought that, at the time, I should not have said so to you.

On that note, I will repeat that my pm's are turned off, and have been so, all members blocked, for some time, and for one very important  reason - as I have stated before - I do not trust myself and my own level of maturity to maintain a right heart, mind, attitude, and speech at all levels... yet.

In truth, Leah, and in Christ, and as I told you the last time I replied to one of your posts to me, I do not feel very good after interacting with you. I will continue to search my own heart about my feelings, and in the meanwhile, that's all I have to say about it.

Carolyn

[Gabben]

Leah,

I'm glad that you felt free enough to get that out and say all of that -- your voice is valued.

However, I do disagree with what you have written and I feel very hurt by what you have written because it is untrue.  

It seems to me that what you may wish for is for me to be hated here by the VESMD community and to have the board gang up on me and make me leave. Is that correct? That is not nice -- I do not want you to leave nor do I wish you to be hated by others.

My overall behavior here on the board has not been wrong. Have I made mistakes, yep...but that does not mean that I am abusive or hurtful.

with love,
Lise