Victimhood

[Gabben]

I think the dynamics of being with an N or in an N family and a cult have similarities.

besee,

Back about 4 years ago I joined a prayer ministry within my Catholic Church. I joined for a couple of the reasons that were listed in your post above. I was wanting to belong and I was seeking new connections because my sister, who I was close with, had just married and moved to another state. My mom and her husband retired to a 4 hour drive away instead of a 45 minute one (that was blessing in disguise) and my best girlfriend moved to half a state away to start another job. All of this triggered me. In my loneliness I joined this prayer group that prayed a release of souls from purgatory.

The leader was a woman, who I wrote about on another thread, my first thread -- "I think I just had my first encounter with a N."

She was so smooth and sweet. She projected innocence and purity as well as she had this way of making people feel so special. This was all done under the guise of Jesus and Mary's love. But emotionally she was just not there. She would get passively angry (not showing it) if people did not show up for the weekly prayers. If someone would leave the group she would sulk under the guise of praying.

The prayer ministry was mostly serving her interests such as popularity and being the center of attention (N supply). She was preying off new converts and people who had just returned to the church after a long absence, the vulnerable ones.

This falls into my definition of cult like victimhood. Whenever I tried to leave the ministy because of the elitist attitude I got from others and the feelings of separateness from my real church/Parrish I paid the price of her coldness, judgment or guilt. It was all so subtle but it was all there.

Here is a mention about the psychology of false church ministries:

Psychological Tricks:

All of these false claims of special protection for the devotee of a claimed private revelation serve to make the devotee feel special: different from, and better than, other Christians. In order to keep the devotee adhered to the visionary, following the visionary rather than the Church, special devotions, prayers, medals, statues, and images are offered, each of which is specific to the visionary and their messages. This psychological trick serves to pull the devotee toward the visionary, and away from the Church, because the visionary is offering something that the Church does not offer.

From the start, I knew in my gut that something was not right about her group, reading this above confirmed it and affirmed for me to trust my gut.

Gab

[Gabben]

Hi Gab,  A Catholic prayer ministry sounds normal to me, I imagine there are many healthy

wonderful supportive Catholic ministry - no red flag waving in my opinion

Hi Besee,

Good stuff, thanks.

You would be amazed at the corruption in Catholic prayer ministries:

http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/index.htm

Thanks again for all of this insight.

Gab

[Ami]

I have wanted to respond to the victimhood thread.
I think that we blame victims ,too much. I know when I was in the throes of victimhood, I could not help it. I was underwater and could not get out.
 I had outside intervention. Maria 'dropped out of the sky" to help me. The Bible talks about a broken spirit and a broken heart. S/times , you have been pushed down so far that you see no way out. Then , you are so weak that many therapists will even take advantage of you.
 When my H and I had marriage counseling, they sided with the "checkbook"(him). I  sound cynical, I know. I think that you can be too far down, s/times and it is not really your fault. I am open to other people's ideas, though.    Ami

[Hermes]

Dear Ami:

I do not think that, in general, any sensible and sensitive person would "blame" the victim.  I am totally astounded at what you say about the "counsellor".  Certainly does not sound to me like a very professional kind of person. 

All in all, I feel far wider coverage needs to be given in the media on the issue of abuse, in particular mental and emotional abuse, and how it can cause more damage than physical abuse (and I am not making any excuse for physical abuse).  The scars of mental abuse may well last forever, though physical wounds will heal relatively quickly.  Also, it is well to never forget that mental and emotional abuse is somehow "benign".  It isn't and in a vast majority of cases leads to physical abuse, even murder.

All the best
Hermes

[Ami]

Hermes, my M is a therapist(20 years) and an N---"nuff said-----lol.
You are lucky that you did not run in to   abusive ones.The paradox of getting therapy is that you do not trust yourself (usually) and that is part of why you need help.
 So , an unscrupulous therapist can easily manipulate you for his own gains.
  By the law of odds,I have had so  many bad ones , that I should have YEARS of good ones, ahead(LOL)       Ami

[Hermes]

Hello Ami:

That is indeed a sad case.  Amazing that people studying psychology would not themselves be screened on entering the career and during their studies.
I would imagine that any psychologist found to be exercising any kind of malpractice would be struck off the register at once.

The psych who diagnosed my exNH was also the psych for the Prison Service in the area, and also lectured in psychology at the uni.  He certainly did not have to delay long in reaching his diagnosis, and he told me afterwards that many members of the prison population had NPD. 
I had many meetings with that psych, for months afterwards. 

All the best
Hermes

[Leah]

You Don't Have to be Gullible to be Brainwashed !!


Cults in Our Midst ......  Brainwashing in our Everyday Lives!!

by Margaret Singer


> The Process of Brainwashing:

      Education

      Advertising

      Propaganda

      Indoctrination

      Thought Reform


.... Interesting straightforward table explaining all of the above on this webpage .....


http://www.rickross.com/reference/cults_in_our_midst/cults_in_our_midst2.html

[Bella_French]

Hi Hermes,

I read the article, and found myself cringing. The author sounds so angry. Or maybe ignorant. He demonstrated a complete absence of understanding regarding many issues, such as feminism, emotional abuse, wife-battering, and other issues (mostly affecting women). He probably had  a long, bad marriage, started dating a younger woman, and then discovered feminism, much to his horror. This is my bet.

He basically called us all `tend-hors'. What a joke.

I think I feel sorry for this guy. He needs a hug or something.

X bella

[Bella_French]

Ok, I take some of it back; he does make some good points too. Sorry, i didn't get right until the end until now.

X bella

[Hermes]

Hello Bella:

Well, I am neither for nor against the article. I expect each person takes, or not, whatever they find useful in any article.  I honestly do not think anyone "blames" the victim (I do not like the word "victim" anyhow, I have to say).

Feminism, well, I won't go there either.  I think off-the-rails feminism is at fault for the unnecessary polarisation of the men and women today. 

All the best
Hermes

[Hermes]

Hello to all:

It is such a complex topic, isn't it?

Hermes

http://www.uaadv.org/info-TraumaticBonding.html

"""Traumatic Bonding
What is Traumatic Bonding?
Traumatic Bonding may be defined as the development of strong emotional ties between two persons, with one person intermittently harassing, beating, threatening, abusing or intimidating the other.

There are two common features in the structure of trauma bonded relationships:
(1) The existence of a power imbalance, wherein the maltreated person perceives himself/herself to be dominated by the other person.
(2)  The intermittent nature of the abuse.


Power Imbalance
Social psychologists have found that unequal power relationships can become increasingly unbalanced over time. As the power imbalance magnifies, the victim feels more negative in her self-appraisal, more incapable of fending for herself, and more dependent on the abuser. This cycle of dependency and lowered self-esteem repeats itself over and over and eventually creates a strong affective (emotional) bond to the abuser.

At the same time, the abuser will develop an over generalized sense of his own power which masks the extent to which he is dependent on the victim to maintain his self image. This sense of power rests on his ability to maintain absolute control in the relationship. If the roles that maintain this sense of power are disturbed, the masked dependency of the abuser on the victim is suddenly made obvious.

One example of this sudden reversal of power is the desperate control attempts made by the abandoned battering husband to bring his wife back to the relationship through threats and/or intimidation.


Intermittent Abuse
When physical abuse is administered at intermittent (random times) and when it is interspersed with permissive and friendly contact, the phenomenon of traumatic bonding seems most powerful.

The three phases involved in the cycle of violence (tension building, battering and “honeymoon”) provide a prime example of intermittent reinforcement. The unpredictable duration and severity of each phase serve to keep the victim off balance and in hopes of change. The “honeymoon” phase is an integral part of traumatic bonding. It is this phase that allows the victim to experience calm and loving feelings from the abuser and therefore strengthens her emotional attachment.