Mother makes son hold apology sign on street corner

[Gabben]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4261381

Did this mom go too far? 

I say YES!

She is publically humiliating her child.  She is scapegoating him for what is most likely her lack of parental love and attention that the boy is not getting from her (she knows it). She is not wanting to take responsibility for the fact that children act out and act out what they know and what they know comes from the parents.

This is the truest form of shame dumping there is.

My this child grow up in love and not be ashamed for being human and for having needs.

God will turn her evil into something -- I hope that others will pray for him because they too will see his pain -- may those prayers help him, bless him and comfort him.

Lise

[Leah]

On top of all that--ABC is Guilty of posting this on the Internet for the whole world to see. This is far more damaging that what the mother did.

Personally I would not do this to my child.

Agree, wholeheartedly.  Worldwide abuse of a child.

ABC should be requested to pull this, as it would be pulled off YouTube for example.

Faith in action -- how can we get this removed from the internet?

Leah x


Harvey says she loves her son very much and wanted him to learn a lesson. "I want to see him be successful in life and this is something that I thought of that maybe would get his attention," she said.

Attention Seeking ....... by the Mother ??   Perhaps?

As in how to grab the Headlines and the Limelight ??  Maybe ?

[Gabben]

Well, if this was a first offense - yeah, it's too heavy-handed.

But suppose this kid has a habit of being rude & mouthy - is already pushing the limits of patience with his parents at home - and his teacher has already had occasion to speak to his mom about his misbehavior in class? Then, I can see where she thinks the punishment fits the (habitual) crime.

But the fact is, with stories like this there is too much information left out to make a "judgement" on the mom's behavior. We don't know the whole story. And not all kids will be emotionally scarred for life from an incident like this. I just let stuff like this go right on past....

but there have been stories that triggered me (rape stories, for instance)... does this incident mean something personal to you, Lise?

Yes, my mother used to publically humiliate me and it did leave scars.

Also, because I have soooooo much empathy, I hurt when I see children in pain (do you see the pain in his eyes?)

And yes, I thought to myself there is a lot of info left out but comments and thoughts are still welcome and YES we can make a judgement on the mom's behavior, it is public humiliation, there is no evading that fact.

Hey Amber --  I never said he will be scared for life...those are you words or are your reading words into my mouth again? It is not so black and white.


Where is your empathy?
Lise


Good points Izzy and Leah, thanks.

[write]

Is it so clear cut?

Parenting is really difficult sometimes- she could be equally criticised for doing nothing, for spanking, for withdrawing attention or affection, for blaming the school or teacher, for deciding he has a mental impairment and giving him behaviour control drugs, - all typical responses from parents to this kind of thing.

I hope mother, teacher and child all got chance to sit down and talk it out, especially given the high media profile attracted, but I won't judge another mother for trying to address problem behaviours in her own child- 'let she who is without sin cast the first stone'!

As for posting it on Youtube- if we watch people being humiliated doesn't that make us part of the humiliation?

If you send a complaint to Youtube I know they do take it seriously; especially things involving children.

~Write

[Gabben]

As for posting it on Youtube- if we watch people being humiliated doesn't that make us part of the humiliation?

Not unless you speak up and take action, such as I did.

[Gabben]

Ohhhh I have a different picture. I cannot see his eyes.
Where is that one?

He is lowering the sign a bit then you can see his eyes in a glance. He is so humiliated he is holding the sign over his face.

Public humiliation is a form of abuse. I can safely say she is abusive in this instance then she is most likely abusive in other instances. I would not be surprised if someone does not call the authorities on her.

Lise

[Gabben]

Here is some info/morethoughts that I found on shame, public humiliation and punishment:

A badge of shame, also a symbol of shame, mark of shame, or simply a stigma,[1] is typically a distinctive mark or token on a person deemed as worthy of public humiliation or persecution, and required to bear a distinguishing sign in public or in captivity. The yellow badge that Jews were required to wear in parts of Europe during the Middle Ages,[2] and later in Nazi Germany and German–occupied Europe, was intended to be a badge of shame.[3] The term may also refer to other identifying marks that are associated with shame. The biblical "Mark of Cain" can be interpreted as synonymous with a badge of shame.[4][5][6][7] The term is also used metaphorically, especially in a pejorative sense, to characterize something associated with a person or group as shameful.[8]


The notion that public humiliation of anyone will induce them to behave better goes against human psychology. A parent or a teacher who humiliates a child does not get improved attitude, but initiates the development of an anti-social attitude. Just ask yourself how many times you have been humiliated, accepted the humiliation as fair, and reformed yourself. Is there anyone out there with such a story who is willing to share it with us?

[write]

I think there's a difference between the concept humbled and concept humiliated. One indeed teaches a lesson, one can make attitudes and behaviours much worse.

Since a parent ( or other significant adult ) is in such a position of power or authority it's always difficult to apply any sanctions to a child without the child being frightened, hurt or humiliated in some way.

I rarely shout at and never hit my child but I know he can be affected by a look or what he feels as 'you don't love me any more'...it's what happenes afterwards makes the difference, how you talk it out, who admits their responsibilities and own imperfections, giving love and reassurance.

Did you get a reply about your complaint?

~W

[Gabben]

Did you get a reply about your complaint?

No.

I ask myself, if I was this child how would I feel if someone saw the video and did nothing? I ask myself, if I was this child how would I feel about  my bringing it up here on the board and pointing out the wrong his mother is doing and acknowledging his pain with compassion? In other words, I hope I am standing up for him.

Lise

[Hermes]

Hello Write:

"..........it's what happenes afterwards makes the difference, how you talk it out, who admits their responsibilities and own imperfections, giving love and reassurance."" Write.

There is indeed a difference between "humbled" and "humiliated".  I find your view is very balanced.

All the best
Hermes

[Gabben]

I think there's a difference between the concept humbled and concept humiliated. One indeed teaches a lesson, one can make attitudes and behaviours much worse.

There is a huge difference between humble and humilated...HUGE -- they are actually at the polar opposites of each other.

Humility is to think of yourself less (others more). Humiliation is to think less of yourself.

[Hermes]

I am with you there, Phoenix.  I know I would be overwhelmed too.  There is only so much we can do.  Life is unfair, and we do have to come to terms with that, whether we like it or not.
Perhaps in three or four hundred years, maybe, as humans evolve, certain injustices will disappear (I am not so sure, but hopefully), or maybe our planet will not be here at all.

All the best
Hermes

[Leah]

Perhaps in three or four hundred years, maybe, as humans evolve, certain injustices will disappear (I am not so sure, but hopefully), or maybe our planet will not be here at all.

Well, there is one certainty, we won't be here 

Leah x

[Hermes]

Heh heh Leah.
Maybe we"ll be  "looking in" from another dimension......

Hermes

[Certain Hope]

Lise,

What I see in that little boy's eyes hurts my heart. I could not and would not put my child on public display in such a way and magnify his shame. A second grader. He is likely 7 years old. I wonder whether he'll do something similar to his own child one day. Surely there was a better way.
That said, I think that the media, in general, stinks.
And imo it's totally irresponsible of ABC to air this story in the first place and, in the second place, there is so little information... that doubly stinks. My cynicism in this regard tells me that the media would like to promote an agenda whereby the government would be able to dictate to parents how they may (and may not) discipline their own children... and I think that stinks.

Wish we knew more... but I can imagine alot. Maybe that mother had far worse things done to her, as a child, and so she thinks this is a really good thing. Maybe she's at her wit's end with this child. We just cannot know.

Carolyn