Resistance is ...futile(?)

[les]

Hi my board friends,

I wonder if you could shine a little light on a situation I'm in. As some of you may remember my Nmother is 91 and always "dying." She is actually in pretty good shape and nothing in particular is wrong. We live in the same city and I take her shopping/banking etc once a week and call usually every 2 to 3 days. (aghhhh)

I went away last week. Sometimes there is a bit of high drama when I go away (last time my husband had to rush her to the hospital...nothing wrong)

But this time the drama was waiting for me when I got back. I was full of generous impulses having been away for a week and was determined to let go of some of my more stubborn stances (like..well, she never really wants to know about me so I just won't tell her anything, harumph!! so there!)

I phoned her and right away of course I got a full report about her interspersed with, 'Oh I'm so tired of talking about myself',  and then more about herself.  I was fully prepared, even eager to tell her about my trip since I almost never do, but she never asked. She went on to tell me that a friend of hers had had a stroke and no one had found her for 2 days.  Mother  told me that her dear friend "Laura" (who calls her every day without fail, don't you know!!) is so distressed and worried about my mother because she (Laura) is going away for 2 weeks and is "begging" my mother to please call me (Les) every morning to let me know that she is still alive and well. This story went on and on and on. What pisses me off, I'm not even sure. Is it that the "good" friend Laura has to beg my mother to ask me (the 'bad' daughter) to please let her call me every day?  

THis is a variation on the two decade old theme of - you'd better call because I might die/or already be dead.  It caused enormous stress because she was always pissed off that  didn't call enough and always managed to convey her distress and anger.

I feel like chewing my arm off!  On the one hand she is old, could of course have a stroke or die. She is obviously frightened and needs some reassurance. It would be nice if this came from a family member.  I imagine that in a "normal relationship" a daughter might naturally call her elderly mother once a day or vice versa.  I am actually a reasonably kind generous person.  Is my resistance because of our history I wonder. I thought I was willing to let all that go. Or is it because once again I feel manouvered into something with yet another story about how so many people love my mother and worry about her (in contrast to the bad daughter, who never does enough and so friends must intervene )

I'm always asking myself what is fair? She is very f***ing old! We should support our old folks. She does have other systems in place as well. Another friend in her building calls every day, someone else notes if the newspaper has been taken in.

I resist, resist, resist.   I am really in touch with my miserly side. Don't quite understand why I can't  be a little more generous with my time at this time in my mother's life. I didn't say she couldn't call but I did point out all the other support systems she had in place. The past is past.. I want to let my bitterness go but can't seem to let go of...I don't know.  Any and all thoughts most welcome.

Les

[mighty mouse]

Hi Les,

The Ns of the world like to gaslight and manipulate and guilt. That is their currency and nice people fall for it. Sure, your Mom is an old lady (sic) and probably does have real fears. But she has had 91 years to come to terms with getting old. It seems her old, mean self isn't failing in lucidity of the mind.

Think about the facts you mentioned....a person calls her everyday, another checks to make sure her paper is picked up. And you call every 2-3 days. Sheesh. When do you get to live? And why are you the only one who is in charge of her? She's lucky to have you.

It's hard to realize that there is no relationship with an N. They have absolutely no interest in a reciprical relationship. My sister who has NPD could never remember when I told her repeatedly that I'd be out of town and she would send me email and call and leave all these messages. When I got home I had all of these messages and I would call her back. She never asked me where I'd been (although I told her and she wouldn't remember) and expressed NO interest in me at all. It is all a one way street.

I see that the problem lies with how YOU define things. Why are you using her definitions? Just my 2 cents.

BTW I did email my Mom back a short 3-4 sentence note. I didn't buy into her "it hurts when you don't send me long, newsy emails" bit. I just told her "sorry, I don't have a long, newsy email in me" - very matter of fact. If she wants to make me a bad guy I can live with that.
 
P.s. Nice to have you back!
MM

[mighty mouse]

Les,

I just remembered a story my friend in California told me. It was about an old lady who promised her nephew that when she died, he could have her house.

Well, she didn't really want to give the nephew the house and the mean, old thing lived to 117 years old!! She outlived her nephew.

I guess I'm just wondering how many years you are willing to put yourself aside for her? And just one more question. If she is really that afraid, maybe you could use this opportunity to talk with her about a nursing or elder care home again?

MM

[les]

Hi MM.

I hear you. Thanks for your tell it like it is wisdom. Hard earned, I know.  Boy I fall for the poor frail me stuff because...well, it's a real possibility of course. Has the wolf finally arrived? (yes!) If she really is living in fear, then she should be in a nursing home as you point out.  I think I just wasn't quite as guarded as I usually am since I'd been away. I was feeling like I could make this relationship work a bit.

 It is a constant push pull between us. To put it bluntly, the person that would be most relieved to have her shuffle off is also the person she depends on for all the emotional stuff... I can't give her.

Before I left she wanted me to take her to the doctor because her blood pressure was too low, 150 over something, then she wanted me to take her to the doctor because it was too high, 170 over something - she takes it repeatedly throughout the day. It's so hard to untangle it all, is it real, is it another one of the thousands and thousands of bids for attention. Generally the doctor just sighs and tells her she's in fabulous shape for her age.(third doctor in the last 4 years, no one PAYS ATTENTION!! need new doctor!!) This being Canada it's easier perhaps to just get your attention needs met through going to the doctor all the time. My mother is either dying or as she said brightly last week - "The doctors should study me!" ( to find out why she is so incredibly healthy and smart etc) God, I'm tired and I've only been back a day!  

I read your post about stealing. I really felt for that little girl who couldn't ask for what she needed. I keep replaying one of the questions you posted awhile back - Why would N's have 8 children?  So does your sister still get to you or have you mostly dealt with it?

You are very level headed  MM. So you took the short, matter of fact route in your e-mail. I think you are a realist. You know what is and you keep your eye on that. I need to learn this. I keep thinking maybe people change, want closure, see the error of their ways, need a second chance. What I'm just starting to get is that full- blown N is irreversible. I need to send Polyanna (me) packing. THis woman could live to be 100 or more.  My brother and sister have already had cancer and my body does all kinds of odd things in response to all this.  

Yes, - this woman needs to come to terms with aging and being old. She's mad as hell -hasn't done any interior work at all. (oh, Polyanna said, that's right, there isn't too much interior to work with)

So how are you doing down there? Sweltering?

Thanks and if I might   ...send a hug your way.

Les

[Anonymous]

Hi Les,

Yeah, we should be good to our old people, honor them, etc.  But that's when they can be gracious and grateful themselves and spread some goodwill around.  You are a good person to be so dutiful.  I feel nicer and better about myself when I offer or give something to someone rather than when they grab it out of my hand (like an N does through manipulation...)  They're such jerks and hard to love.  

The friend that died was still dead two days later (harsh to say, huh?) but that doesn't mean no one cared about that friend, for crying out loud.  Or that the friend knew any different.  I know it sounds awful, but really?  What is her point?  I think that is what might be getting under your skin is that she doesn't ask directly for what she wants and doesn't thank you when she gets it.  

Many of these stories are sounding pretty similar to mine and I just want to tell Ns to bug off!  My Ndad is also rushing off to various doctors simply because he doesn't have anything else to do and chooses this as his hobby!!   Maybe to help you with the guilt or the tendency towards guilt...write a list of all the things you do for your elderly N and why you do it.  And stick to it.  Don't listen to their noise.

I found a great new book called When Difficult Relatives Happen to Good People. Great title!  I had to get it for that reason alone.  One couple had a MIL who gambled and then expected them to bail her out, pay her debts, fly to whereever she was and rescue her.  So they told her they would make one trip a year only away from their jobs and kids to help her and spend only $600/year towards her debts.  She told them to go to hell and then she went to jail/prison!!  Then she realized she had to take responsibility for herself.    
kind of extreme and off topic, except to say that anything that is done for them isn't ever enough.  I told my husband that NSIL had written enough "checks" on her goodwill account, then on my brother's.  Then the "checks" started to bounce, because there was no goodwill be deposited in our relationship.  Every encounter with her was a chance to ask for something, borrow something, insult somebody, make accusations or insinuations.  So I cut her off for "bad credit".  

So how much goodwill is left in the account?  Sounds like there is some but perhaps a low balance?  

Anyway, I'm rambling.  Hope this helps a little.    Seeker

[les]

Thanks Seeker... that's just it - GRABBING what they want.  I get hung up on the SHE NEEDS IT part so try to ignore the grabbing but it always gets me in  emotional hot water.

Exactly! about the woman being dead for two days!!! I've tried to understand the anxiety here. I suppose if you were lying on the floor in a semi-conscious state for 2 days that would be awful but I don't think that was the case.  Maybe I'll get my mother a panic button or something only to be used when lying on the floor!  Even now at 54 I think, hell I've had a life, if I collapsed and died I think I could handle it!

Had a good LOL moment reading the title of the book!

For now I guess I'm stuck. I should have gathered the children and made a dash for the coast years ago like my sister did but I'm here holding this big baby. More resolved then ever to find a retirement home for queens and princesses and big babies.

Thanks for taking the time Seeker. I always appreciate reading your posts and replies.

In a huggy mood tonight so sending a hug your way.

Les

[Anonymous]

les,

There are times when we have to bite the bullet and take care of an elderly N against our wishes. I've been there. BUT....is this one of those times....??? I'm not sure. Ignore meddling old bats who tell you what to do, and do what you think is right. If you aren't sure, ask a respected friend. That's what I do. A woman friend of mine tells me what the right thing is when I'm not sure.

bunny

[les]

I guess it really is one of those times Bunny and rightly or wrongly it has been "the time" for years. It has been difficult to really know what's enough. I can't withdraw my services, my mother actually IS old now,  but I do want to leave some breathing room for me.

I spoke to her today about getting a panic button (for  her!) It triggered a tremendously honest discussion, where she admitted among other things that she has used her "pathetic, poor me" self (demonstrated with much pouting, giggling, posturing and batting of eyelashes) over the decades to get what she wants.  It was quite shocking...of course still all about her! I didn't think she was capable of such honesty or insight.

 She is seeing things a little differently lately and is almost taking a small bit of ownership for the terrible mess. She has learned that she can blame it all on being raised "the 100% perfect baby" so it's not her fault at all!  She adores talking about herself and she initiated a discussion about why she is the way she is. She wondered why she "feeds" (her word) on other people and needs constant attention. She totally fascinates herself. I was able to say that "your baby Daughter") me, can't provide it all and perhaps she would find some of what she's looking for in a retirement home (nice segue I thought)

 She admitted that the woman who had the stroke wasn't actually lying on the floor conscious for 2 days. ..funny there was a feeling of -Look at me NOW, I can do HONEST with such skill and CHARM..

Anyway thanks Bunny.  I think I started to bite the bullet way too soon, 20, 30 years ago when she was "old" and sometimes my jaw gets sore. I don't think I can trust the - Look at me I'm HONEST MOTHER - but it WAS interesting. I need a drink actually.

Les

[Anonymous]

Les,

I should've been clearer. I meant to refer ONLY to phoning her every day to see how she was. I am questioning whether this is one of those 'bite the bullet' issues. And I didn't think it sounded like one. Sure, some other old lady thought it was. But who cares what she thinks.

I think you've probably given far too much time to your mother. Her health doesn't require hours of listening to her bs.

bunny

[mighty mouse]

Hi Les,

you wrote:

I didn't think she was capable of such honesty or insight

Please don't make too much of this. My sister has admitted that she knows she is terribly selfish. She has some insight...but there is no action to follow it up. To me insight without action is useless.

And these people are NOT stupid people. They are cognitively impaired but definately not dumb. There is some weird disconnect. I bet your Mom is quite intelligent? My sister is extremely intelligent. And to answer your question of if she still gets to me? Nope. I have cut her off at all passes and ignore her like the stalker she is. It took a long time to get to this point. I don't say this glibly. We used to be close (sic). Of course that was before I knew that the only person in the relationship was really her.

Anyway, it's hot down here as you already imagined. But I'm hangin' in there. Thanks for asking.

MM

[les]

Ah, I see Bunny.  Actually we did a little negotiating around daily calls - and although desirable from her point of view, not actually necessary.

MM - right! After hearing about all this my husband's comment was, "yes but will anything change?"  Remains to be seen. Interesting point - insight without any change.  If whining and blaming "works" why change? So I need to be resolved that "clear respectful communication" without "attachments" and sub-texts is the only thing that works. (I more or less told her this yesterday.) so I need to keep changing...oh!  

MM, Bunny, do you feel that you are in a post-N state of sorts? The N's are all there but you've got the formula down and can protect yourself fairly easily now without going through the old emotional gyrations?  

Thanks again - every day I am well, amazed that such a source of sage advice is right at our fingertips.

Les

[les]

MM - just about your sister.. I don't know ...yes, she went to Harvard and so forth but and don't take this too hard (as I think you said in your post to me)  not sure what I'm driving at here so should quiet my fingers while I type but they just keep going...maybe suffice it to say that your sister has a very intelligent sister as well. But you must already know that. right!? or do you resist that notion. Hmmm...

Les

[bunny]

Do you feel that you are in a post-N state of sorts? The N's are all there but you've got the formula down and can protect yourself fairly easily now without going through the old emotional gyrations?

Pretty much. They can still get to me, but only for a few minutes. And I'm on meds and see a therapist -- I couldn't deal with Ns without them.

bunny

[mighty mouse]

Hi Les,

you asked:

maybe suffice it to say that your sister has a very intelligent sister as well. But you must already know that. right!? or do you resist that notion. Hmmm...

No, I don't resist it at all. I'm brilliant...lol. Just kidding. I think I am intelligent...not up there with the mensa types. But then there are all sorts of ways of being intelligent.

As for your questions about Ns (same as Bunnys above), I have it better than most people here. I am not so brave or wonderful in that both of my Ns are far away and I truly do not have to deal with them on a day to day basis. Nor is my Nmom so old (75) that I have to worry about her "kicking" anytime soon. And add to that fact I have 7 other siblings that buffer things.

But I have done a lot of inside work to get to where I am now and feel proud of that. Ns really don't make me crumple up in a ball (used to be contact would make my blood pressure go really high and I'd get a bad headache). Not any more. Whew!!!!!!!!!! It was all because of acceptance. I can't stress that enough.

MM

[les]

I feel like I am screaming up the learning curve as they say.  I think I get what you mean about "acceptance" but if you would care to elaborate that would be great.

BTW I think"Somebody" needed a wake up smack and you delivered it. I am trying to understand why people from such traumatic childhoods are so anethestized, so passive. It's such familiar territory. Some fight, some give up and call it something else.  I think working on "forgiveness" could be just as much about stuffing it all away.  

There is much more that I would like to say about all this but as I conveyed in my post it stirs us all at the deepest level of repulsion.  

So MM -a piece of my new understanding about losing my voice - I couldn't see or speak the truth.  It is coming out now.. some with my mother..the hideous stuff...alluded to sideways but still acknowledged. .I'm wiped out.

Les
What a thing to talk about with anyone...but there it is...