Author Topic: Newbie  (Read 32249 times)

Somebody

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« on: July 20, 2004, 12:51:45 AM »
I haven't read much here but I'm thinking I might get away with letting loose in this anonymous environment.  I need to do that.

I'm getting too old to carry the stuff I'm lugging around.  I grew up in a house that contained an alcoholic-psychopathalogical-liar-nacissist, a label that should exhist somewhere.  That would be my diagnosis, if I had the qualifications or licence to give one.  That was my father.

My mother was tormented, terrorized, abused severely, eventually paranoid and lost most of her marbles.  She was a very good person with a lot to bear, which destroyed her mentallyand physically.  She had her weaknesses, like anyone else.  She died suddenly at the age of 63.  My brother and sister appear to be a lot like my father.

I don't think I am.  I have always tried to please and appease.  I am "easygoing", I am often told.  "Very patient and kind, generous and affectionate".  I am "wise" and I have a decent amount of "common sence" (although I'm not a rocket scientist.  I worked hard for any "A" I received and there weren't that many).  "Average intelligence" was written about me.  I know these things are true about me but I have a hard time accepting compliments (and the average intelligence thing was strange.  What does that mean?  How was that figure arrived at?  To be honest, I may be a little above average, but not much, I can't tell.  Still, average intelligence isn't a bad thing, yet it seemed to bother me when I read that).  I have no criminal record nor do I break the law.  I have a great desire to help others but I am not involved in doing so in my community (in any great manner, although I do belong to a small group that does small things).  I don't think I am superspecial or any less than anyone else.  I am a very positive person, most of the time.  I do have trouble understanding cruel and jealous behaviour, although I am trying to learn.  I just don't feel those things and I try really hard not to behave in mean ways to people.  I've always been happy with the material things I've had and glad for those that have better and / or better relationships etc).  I don't think I'm any more or less important than anyone else and I believe most people are good (or trying to behave well).   My sence of trust is amazing, considering how many times it's been violated by those who would be expected to respect it.  I basically trust people (but I'm not blindly trusting).  My self-esteem is at a reasonable level but I carry this awful emotional pain around, which I know I must release.

I guess I'm afraid of doing so.  I'm basically a gentle person and I really dislike all nasty expression.   There was so much of it growing up and then, in my first marriage, to an alcoholic-narcissist.  I spent 17 years of my life trying to please that man, which was impossible.  We had two children together.  One is showing many narcissistic personality traits and the other, I fear, is even more like my father.  It is horrible to think about and face.  I can't fix my kids.

I divorced their father and married a man who treats me like gold.  He has many good qualities and we get along very well together.   We enjoy eachother's company and we have a good relationship.  We are respectful and kind to eachother and we laugh a lot.  We both work very hard and are successful at what we do.  We have a nice life together and everything between us was really good, including sex,  until he violated the most basic and deep trust any husband could violate.   He committed a sexual act toward my child (many years ago, when we were first married).  This was brought to light recently.  It was devistating for me to face and I wanted to commit a crime more that moment than any other in my life.  However, I told myself not to.  To be patient, to seek the whole story.

My child told the information to my sister (both of whom seem to be narcissists).  My sister, first, called my close friend and then, the authorities.  Also, my ex-family members.  Then other friends of mine.  She told many people about what my husband had done.  She exagerated events, unrelated, and wove them into one story.  She added lies.  She seemed consumed with hate, which she fed, very clearly to my kids.  She treated me like a criminal and demanded I divorce my husband (days after my learning of this past behaviour of my husband).  She began calling my house relentlessly and criticizing, in a more than usual way, pretty well my every word, act and every feeling I expressed.  She continued to spread stuff to all who would listen.   She lied to me, telling me "one of your friends or neighbours already made a report" and that she thought it was my closest friend.  (Who could I trust now?  Which person reported what- about me???  I hadn't done anything wrong!).

My kids were being influenced by her in big and negative ways.  She kept making plans with them, without my knowledge, and getting them to go out with her, without asking me, and calling them on the phone and when they got off the phone----I could feel the tension and the anger from them.  They would clam up and wouldn't speak with me.  She was feeding them hate.

I met with her and told her that she did the right thing in reporting the information to the authorities and that it was wrong of her to spread this gossip about my family to my friends and others, that is was wrong to monitor me like a criminal, to tell me that awful lie that caused me to feel totally isolated, and it was wrong to feed hate to my kids.  I asked her to please stop making this worse.  Please stop.  Just please stop.
I had only ever confronted her like this once before, in our entire lives.

Her response was "how are you going to stop me?" and "we are now enemies".

I love my sister and I thought we were very close.  This was kicking me when I was down.  Cruel.  Cruel.  Rotten and cruel.  Just like her father.
Liar.  Big-mouth.  Full of hate.  Sick, selfish, controlling, conniving snake.

My eldest child was old enough to leave (at this point) and did so.  She is also showing signs of narcississtic p. disorder.  I tried going to therapy with her and the therapist was more interested in lining his pockets than helping our family.  He behaved in an unprofessional manner.   I was shocked and confused and went to another doctor, who told me this before I could barely finish a few sentences.  "This Dr. ____ should not be inserting his opinion and feelings.  He should be acting in a professional manner...", he said.  I knew my thinking was correct.  I stopped going there.

My child saw a special therapist too but I think it made matters worse.  Blew things into a much bigger situation.  Made my husband's behaviour into a rare, unforgivable, permanent sickness.   When the truth was, it was isolated and corrected.  And it isn't so rare.  It's just that most of us want to believe it is.  None of us want to believe that this could happen in our family.  How could it?  Never!!   Anyone who does such a thing is a sick incurable animal!

I decided that I would try to forgive my husband and remain married.  I would not condenm him when he was begging for mercy and doing everything possible to show remorse, seek treatment, and take responsibility for his actions.  I told my child that none of what had happened to our family was my child's fault and kept professing my love and understanding.  My child could not accept my forgiving my husband (and I think the professionals encouraged that attitude and I know my sister did).

Forgiving is simply letting go of ones anger and resentment.  It is not an acceptance of behaviour.  My husband's behaviour was disgusting and abhorrent and I will never accept it.  It sickens me and it is not an easy thing to forgive.   Feeling angry and resentful towards him, however, does not do me, or anyone else, any good.

Forgiving helps us heal and it is something we need to do for ourselves, not so much the other person, but I couldn't seem to make my thinking or feelings acceptable to my child.  I was wrong to forgive.  I should immediately divorce him.  I should hate him.  He is a monster-period.

The more I looked for the truth of the entire matter the more I realized I must continue to look.  My child admitted feeling very jealous of the relationship I had with my husband.  There were many difficulties between my child and my husband, especially because my child was so very lazy.  It wasn't this behaviour of my husband's that was all that was driving my child to want him out of our home.   This baby of mine did not wish to follow anyone's rules.  My kid was rebelling against even kind words that were spoken or anything that was asked.   My child was afraid for my younger child too.

My husband faced his behaviour and took responsibility for it.  He  faced the law and the consequences of his act.  He offered and kept trying to do anything possible to repair the damage he had caused.  He told his mother, infront of me, and his closest friends.  He could have kept silent.  There was no need to reveal his behaviour to them.  He went to therapy.  He served his time.  He continued to financially support us.  He suffered and was degraded by the "tests" and the "reports" and the knowledge that he will be on the sexual offender list forever and that he is a criminal.  He can't ever leave the country.  Everyone knows what he did and he doesn't deny it.   He wrote a letter of appology but it wasn't allowed to be delivered until nearly 2 years after this disclosure.  He had to move out of our home immediately and live elsewhere.  I believe he is genuinely sorry for what he did and that he will never repeat such behaviour because he knows it is not worth it.  He is very lucky and he knows it.  Most women would divorce him.

My own therapist tried to make me take the blame for somehow doing something to allow this.  I must have done something wrong, according to her.  I must have great regrets that I need to purge.  I was somehow responsible for his behaviour.  (She really didn't like it when I kept telling her that I am only responsible for my own behaviour and no one elses.  Neither can I change anyone's but my own).  I was traumatized further by this therapist, in many ways.  I finally stopped going.

I am now Mrs.Scum of the earth, married to Mr. Scum.  My youngest child was gone a few months after the eldest, the one that is most like my father.   This child told bold-faced tremendous lies to others, including my sister, which were then reported to the authorities once more.  They came to my home and removed this child.  Both my husband and I could have gone to jail for things we did not do.  I had proof of the truth and produced it, which ended that case but not quick enough, it was another year of hell.

The agony I have suffered because of the behaviour of basically everyone I have ever loved weighs down somewhere very deep within my heart.  My friends believed the stories they heard and those that didn't, certainly heard them, so I ended those relationships.  I could not stand to face such widespread and mostly untrue gossip or the shame of what my husband did, my sister, and even my own child (the one that lied).

It has been awhile since this nightmare began.  It often feels like yesterday.  I would like to purge the pain, that's for sure.  The joy is gone from my life.  I am getting it back a little at a time but I really think I need to get the feelings out, not just the facts, although the facts are a start.

I wish I could speak with another person who has experienced something similar (although I wouldn't wish anything similar on my worst enemy).  I just know there has to be someone else in the world who has an understanding of what this torture has been like.

I have to tell the rest of you one thing:

You have no idea until you stand in my shoes.

Onyx

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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2004, 03:14:27 AM »
A horrible story in most senses of the word! You've centainly placed yourself between a 'rock and a hard place' if nothing else.

No I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. I have little experience of your kind of story, so I really don't know what I could say that would help. Life is about choices.....and living with the ones we make. You've made yours, now you've got to live it.

You write very well, far better than I. You're an intelligent woman as would appear to have the 'marbles' as you put it, to move on past this period in your life.

I don't think that you will ever forgive hubby......it is afterall, unforgivable. Because of the family upset that it's caused, it runs far to deep and is an open wound. I hope the right things happen for you and it soughts itself out, though I fear not.

David

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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2004, 09:17:25 AM »
Thankyou for posting and for complimenting my marbles.  

You're right that I will never forgive my husband's behaviour.  I do, however, choose to forgive him.   We are all human and capable of behaving in terrible ways.  There is insanity in all of our lives at one time or another and I just can't send my husband to the wolves when he could easily deny (for example) and lie.  The behaviour is "unforgivable" but think about admitting doing something like that?  How easy is it for any of us to admit doing something wrong, never mind admit something so dispicable?  It takes great courage.  A person who intends to repeat such behaviour does not face up to it.   They do the opposite, especially when their lawyer is telling them that they could easily "win this case" and "get off".  My husband stopped his behaviour himself, he "offered" but didn't go any further.   He did not continue or complete what he started.   That does not erase the fact that he began in the first place, it is still a crime,  but it does indicate that he got control of his urges.   He did not repeat this behaviour again.

I understand what it feels like to do something extremely immoral and unacceptable.  I had an abortion when I was 19.  It was legal in the eyes of the law but I know darn well it was not, and is not, legal in the eyes of God.  I know what it feels like to regret behaviour and to never want to repeat it again.  To take responsibility for it and do everything possible to prevent repeating it.  To want to do anything to make up for it.  I think this helped me to understand my husband's remorse.

I have no problem living with my choices.  What I have difficulty with, I guess, is accepting the way my sister went for my juglar immediately, before I even knew about this.  She was spreading it around like so much manure and gathering a war party.  I guess I expected her to respect my privacy and give me time to digest this terrible news.  I wanted her to respect my right to make decisions.   I never would have dreamed that she would add lies to the story and try to totally destroy -my - friendships, my- reputation, my support systems, and totally isolate me.  What she did hurt me more than what my husband did.  She is my blood.  I expected her to try to help my family, not destroy it.  I didn't want to believe she is like my father but now I have seen her at  her peak.  I can't deny it any longer.  I do forgive her too because she is sick and only human.  I am not angry with her but I do not accept her behaviour either.   The difference lies in the fact that she does not admit to doing anything wrong and shows no sorrow.   Even when I told her how much she was hurting me and making things worse, she used words to stab me and grind the knife in deeper.  I lost my baby sister at that moment.   I don't blame my husband for my sister's behaviour.  Those were her choices.

I have always hoped that things will work out in my family.  I still think they will but it will take a long time.  It would be a lot easier to help my children heal if my sister were not feeding them constant hate.  Telling both my kids that they "should hate" my husband and "hate" me.  Both kids have told me that she frequently tells them this.  Who has the right to instill such hate in children??  Against their parent.  To me, this too is monstrous, disgusting and abhorrent behaviour.  My sister was narcissistic to begin with but now she has the amunision to justify her self-given-superiority and she is using it to cause as much ruin as possible.

My kids have also inherited these N traits.  I feel guilty for passing them on.  I am honest and I try not to judge harshly.  It is so painful for me to watch my children turn into such opposite people.  It hurts me to know that my efforts to try to teach them to be kind, good, generous, considerate, loving individuals have been useless.  I feel very sad to think of the relationships they will have with others if they continue developing in this manner.   And what my sister is doing to encourage them to be like her will further disintegrate my relationship with them.

I feel totally frustrated and very sad due to all of the losses I have endured.  Think of losing your trust in your spouse, your relationships as they were with your children, and most of your friends, all in a very short time.  It is a horrible story, as you say.

I am still here and I still have the same attitude I have always had, since I was a small child and that is:

"I am not going to let these idiots drive me bananas".

So far, it's working.  I just want to do as you say and get further past it.  The hurt inside keeps rising up.  The grief is hard to imagine.

Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2004, 10:21:43 AM »
You sound quite intelligent to me. I see no "average intelligence" here, maybe it's time to revise your self-image. It must have been hell growing up, and I'm sorry you had to experience that nightmare.

Without excusing your N family members, who sound monstrous, it is understandable to me that your children left, since they may feel you've chosen your husband over them. To them, he cannot be forgiven and his presence in the family is unacceptable. It doesn't matter to them whether he shows remorse, has paid his debt to society, and hasn't repeated his mistake. There are some acts where one time is too many, and the perpetrator will be shunned thereafter. That's possibly unfair but it's not an unusual consequence in this situation.

I hope you can find a therapist who doesn't judge you and who also is very knowledgeable about pathological family dynamics.

bunny

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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2004, 11:22:27 AM »
I decided that I would try to forgive my husband and remain married

Even though I'm sorry for what you went through and all the N stuff, I would have had that man out of my house immediately.

That is one act that is NOT forgivable and I can't beleive you think anyone should. I can see why your kids are angry. You did essentially pick him over them.

Call me judgemental, jump all over me, I don't care. Sexual abuse of a child is EVIL. And IMO that makes you evil as well for staying with him.

MM

les

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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2004, 12:38:20 PM »
Well as you can see by the last post, the issue of sexual abuse is so visceral, so gut-wrenchingly deep that is stirs up our deepest feelings of repulsion.  There is an instinctive recoiling. It is hard to respond to your post but I hear your struggle to understand. I don't know that I have much to say except that as an abused child I see this mostly from your childrens' point of view.  

 You have done a lot of work around forgiveness that's clear.  And I too believe that people don't necessarily have to be condemed forever but you can't expect your children to understand this. It almost seems like you have to make a choice here -life with your husband or life without him and the possiblilty of future contact with your children.

Something about your description of your childhood made me feel the repression and extreme passivity of my own -always trying to understand, always seeing it from the other perspective,never knowing, owning or expressing my own feelings[/b], always trying to make it better by swallowing it all.  Do you think you really have allowed yourself to experience a full and honest reaction to what happened? You certainly sound like someone who was raised in a horrific environment and had to stuff your real self away to get through it...like your mom?

I too am trying to figure out forgiveness in my own life but it seems the consequences of you working on forgiveness and managing to do it are that you are losing your children. Perhaps you could put even more effort into understanding what they have been through and must be feeling.  I don't know - but when you talked about rasing your children to be kind, loving etc - my alarm bells went off - these are my values as well but they can leave people who overdo it, without defenses, without boundaries, easy prey....I mean you too.

It's a hell of a situation for all of you.

Les

mighty mouse

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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2004, 02:32:25 PM »
Hi everyone,

After dealing with two Ns, I have learned to call things what they really are. I make no apology for this. There are people on this board who come here for understanding and it's necessary for us to be gentle with them. This isn't one of those cases. I can not conceive of this board being a safe place for someone who is coddling a child molester. That being said, it's clear that the circumstances of her upbringing are too severe to be dealt with in anything but a clinical setting IMO.

I beleive in protecting children at all costs. First they had to deal with a really bad bio Dad, and then she picks (and yes, she picked him) a person who perpetrated a sexual act on a child. I have a difficult time feeling any sympathy for being labeled "scum" (her words BTW). And I didn't neccessarily get any notion that all of these other people are necessarily Ns.

I say give these kids a break. If they have N tendancies (and I'm not convinced from what I read although I admittedly don't know all the details), is it any wonder? Sheesh. Yes....I am repulsed. No doubt about it.
Being in denial about a blatant reality is sad. And of course we don't know that this guy is "cured" and that he hasn't done the same thing to other kids. She didn't know it about her kids. If he is truly repentent, fine. But he has caused a lifetime of harm to a kid and I don't see any way to reconcile that. I'm ticked off and they aren't even my kids.

MM

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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2004, 02:55:27 PM »
MM,

I think denial is the operative word. She's probably experienced a lot of societal anger and shunning by now which has not influenced her to leave the husband. This is complicated enough so that only a top-notch therapist can deal with it, imo.

bunny

mighty mouse

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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2004, 02:59:47 PM »
Please know, I am not attacking anyone on this thread except for the first poster "somebody". I say this because I know Les is a very sensitive person who is an idealist (sees many points of view and has a talent for being very diplomatic). Hugs to you, Les.

MM

les

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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2004, 05:17:29 PM »
Hugs back MM. I would expect nothing less of the red-caped woman than calling it like it is and/or calling it as you see it.

Nema problema

Les

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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2004, 05:59:15 PM »
I guess I missed a few details.  Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to put all of this down without error.   It would be impossible for me to put everything on this board.

First, I did not decide to remain married to my husband until almost a year later.  He moved out when this was disclosed and remained out of the home.

Second, behaviour such as this does touch our most inner core and causes our feelings of extreme anger and repulsion to surface.  That happened to me too.  People here seem to have assumed that I have not felt that way, but I did.  I was livid.  I understand that that is everyone's immediate reaction, including mine.  I didn't bottle it up, believe me.  But I did wait for an appropriate time to get it out.

I am an RN, for over 20 years.  I have learned not to panic in extreme situations.  I spent many years of my life dealing with crisis', day after day.  I "think" rather than react emotionally when necessary.  I remain calm and I am able to look for the facts first.   That's what I did here.  I remember telling myself "look for the whole truth".  I am not in denial.  And I will not blow the facts out of proportion either.  I am very good at being objective.  It is much harder, when it is my own loved ones, the people I care about, to think rather than react, but I told myself that too.   I guess, after all those years of dealing with difficult  events on such a frequent basis, I formed more of a habit of soothing the people around me.  Believe me, you would like that, if it was your child I was doing CPR on, in your home, as you were starting to panic.  I worked in the community.

Third, please do not assume that I have not suffered for my child's experience.  I have empathized and tried very hard to understand what everyone in my family has felt.  I have also tried to relate to each person that empathy and understanding.  But the other adults involved, the so-called professionals, did the same as it seems is happening here.  They immediately decided what must be done.   They told my children what must be done, before knowing all of the facts.  And, as I have said, there is my sister.

These decisions about my family are not anyone else's to make.  My husband was deemed "very low risk" which is the best anyone can put on paper.  The two doctors involved, who had no contact, formed the exact same opinions (which were very positive).   My family could have healed from these terrible event had there been proper intervention.

Fourth, I did find a very good therapist, later, who helped me a great deal (and incidently, I left home at 16 and dealt with my childhood experiences at that time.  I was able to get past it all.  I have been deemed "very well adjusted" and to be perfectly honest, I feel like I am).  I guess I was trying to express my disappointment about the judgemental and harmful reactions that first therapist exhibited.  I am a professional in my practice.  As a professional, it is understood that we are to do what is "therapeautic" for the client, we try to help the person, and keep our own feelings out of it.  I know that it takes a great deal of skill and experience to do so.  But my therapist caused me harm.

Fifth, my child was not sexually attacked.  It was an offer that never occurred.  My child has stated that it really didn't interfere with my child's life at all except that it caused worry about the other child (which there was no behaviour of this type at all towards).  It was a fear that caused the disclosure (which is perfectly understandable) and jealousy and rebellion.  That child has gone on with life and professes to be quite uneffected.  The reason for leaving my home was because the child did not like the rules I was asking to be respected.  One of which, was that the child look for a summer job, 3 days per week, at the age of 17.

Sixth, my children have been displaying N behaviours for a very long time.  Long before I met my husband.  Please don't try to tell me that I have caused this too.  I carried the genes and that is why I feel guilty.  I don't think it is fair to judge me as a mother.  I have been a very good mother, just to clarify.   You're assuming far too much.  I don't know how you can decide you know this?
 
Seventh, I'm sorry that many of you can only feel anger toward me and I hope you never have to face such a thing.  I also hope you never behave in any abhorrent manner yourself and ask for mercy from anyone.  And don't think it is impossible because you are just as human as anyone else.

I have not chosen my husband over my children.  I chose my family.  I chose to try to help my family heal from this and I would have stayed separated from my husband for the rest of my life, if that's what it took.
I told my child that my husband would never come home until my child felt comfortable.  Never.

I don't think I am evil or anyone else is.  For example, my father was beaten with a pitch fork when he was a kid.  When he ran away from home at the age of 12, nobody even bothered to look for him.  He behaved in terrible ways during his life and he caused great harm to his family, but I do have empathy for the little boy who was beaten and who nobody loved.  That did something to his mind (or maybe, probably, his mind was not right to begin with- I don't know) or at the very least, that treatment made it worse.  I do not excuse what he did but I do pity him.  I do understand that he was a very sick man.   I am not angry with him, I feel very sad for all the pain he experienced and caused, the torment he too fought.  Sometimes, he was nice.   I forgave him many, many years before he died, but I never told him that.   He died a lonely and sick old man.  

I have empathy and understanding for other people's feelings and behaviour.  That is a quality, not a downfall.  I'm really sorry if some of you don't get that much.

I used to think that my father was evil, but I have since learned that we are all just people, often behaving in ways we "think" we cannot control.  I also believe we can change our thinking, which will effect the way we feel and behave.   I believe it was not a mistake, my husband made, but a choice.  He made the choice to behave the way he did and it was a horrendous, monstrous choice.   I can't be sure that he will never act like that again, but my instincts and his behaviour since that time, the doctors opinions, etc, are what have directed my choice.  I also can't be sure that he won't turn into a raging maniac and shoot 47 people, but I doubt very much he will do either of those things.  He too, is fairly intelligent enough to learn that once is too many.

Last, someone else made a similar comment.  "It happened before while your children were in your care and it could happen again".

I had no reason not to trust my husband before I found out about this information, but I dooo, have a reason not to trust him now.  I will never allow him an opportunity to behave like this around any child in my care, ever again, and if I get any inkling of an indication of his even thinking of such behaviour again, I will be the one to make the phone call, and he knows it!

I posted here because I have been deeply hurt.  I did nothing to deserve the way I have been treated by my sister and labelled "Mrs. Scum" (which by the way was not my term).  I have felt the pain of each member of my family, as if my own, and my own excruciating pain as well.  I am weighted down with grief and I need support.

It is very obvious, I have come to the wrong place.

mighty mouse

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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2004, 06:20:06 PM »
You sound good, but I'm not buying.

Sorry. IMO you have come to the wrong place. I had no doubt that you would be back to rework your story......and it came to pass. You didn't disappoint.

You can live with the consequences. If you're okay with it, you don't need to be here anyway. But I'm not cosigning this. You think I'm mean - that's okay with me.

Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2004, 06:47:27 PM »
Somebody,

If you go on a support group, many people will have been abused as children. Therefore, they aren't in a position to empathize with an adult male who abused a child, nor with a spouse who stands by him and forgives him. You start out by saying he had to move out of the house, he paid his debt, etc., but you also minimize whatever happened, as though it is not a big deal. So I was seeing some contradictions which I saw as denial. Your children moved out for whatever reasons. You stay with your husband. Everyone made their choices. There isn't much we can say, really.

bunny

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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2004, 05:52:11 AM »
Somebody. I couldn’t reply to your post before. I’ve learned to ‘sleep on’ my initial feelings, which were close to those felt by MM.

But I think you have come to the wrong place. In your first post you said:

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I wish I could speak with another person who has experienced something similar
I have to tell the rest of you one thing: You have no idea until you stand in my shoes.
 I have no idea and to be honest, I don’t want to stand in your shoes. I don’t want to empathise that closely with you, sorry, but that’s the truth.

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I'm sorry that many of you can only feel anger toward me and I hope you never have to face such a thing. I also hope you never behave in any abhorrent manner yourself and ask for mercy from anyone. And don't think it is impossible because you are just as human as anyone else.
 Suppose we were talking about torture or murder here? You say ‘just as human’. I would say ‘just as INHUMAN’, or ‘just as screwed up as the most screwed up people can be’. No, we’re not all that screwed up. You’ll have to take my word for that.

If you really want to talk to people who *perhaps* can empathise, go to http://www.traumasurvival.org/

Note, many of the people on that board are sex-abuse survivors, but as such, they also, I imagine, understand ‘acting out’. Some may be past abusers. The board is run by Legacy who is, I think, a survivor. I’m not ‘setting you up’ here, I have no agenda, I have no ulterior motive. It may help you to talk to people on that board. Good luck.

Anonymous

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Newbie
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2004, 08:42:31 AM »
One in five and some sources say one in four females- are- sexually assaulted prior to the age of majority, so whether any of you "want to empathize" by standing closely in my shoes, or not, you may not have that choice, at some future, and possibly soon, point in time.  I know it is a terrifying thought.

One in ten males admit to sexually assaulting females, (results from anonymous surveys), so that means that it is quite possible that a male you are married to, work with, are friends with, or associate closely with, is doing this, and you, being intelligent people, are also, not aware of it.

One in ten.  That means there's probably somebody else's husband, mate, or friend here who has behaved, or is behaving like this.

Those are only the statistics that people are admitting to in blind surveys, look them up, if you don't believe me.  This problem is very widespread and it exhists in our own homes, whether we "want to empathize" or not.  

I, for one, am very interested in-stopping- this type of behaviour.  We used to shun gay people as perverted and doomed to hell too, not so long ago.   I don't want child molesters to think that their behaviour is acceptable, but it is far more "normal" than any of us dare to fathom.  I want them to feel that they can ask for help and not be treated like monsters.  Until we offer some way out, this behaviour will continue to increase and proliferate in our society, as it has been and continues to do.  We've already gone the route---burn in hell--- and guess what?  It isn't stopping them.   There could be one of them reading this right now and you tell me what is going to help that person stop what they are doing, face up to it and seek help?  You tell me what will help their victim the most, at this particular moment?

My husband is much less likely to reoffend with me monitoring him.  I have not minimized anything nor have I lied.  I could have posted a very general message, with no reference whatsoever to sexual anything, and I bet you would have been at least, kind but more than likely, very supportive.   The anger that you are all spewing is not really directed at me but at whatever it is that is eating you up inside and it is an expression of your feelings about this type of behaviour.  Please do your best to try to get that out in a more appropriate way and get rid of it (and I say this not to hurt anyone's feelings.  It's the truth.  Anger is very insidious and it will turn to hate.  Hate destroys the vessel within which it resides).  So don't allow anger to live such a comfortable life.  All of this anger isn't fixing a darn thing anyway, is it?  But it does stop people from asking for help,  which in turn will leave these perpetrators no way to stop, and their victims suffering for a lot longer.

My husband stopped himself before he got very involved in this behaviour but most people who do this type of thing go much further, for much a longer period of time.  I keep thinking about how to get them to stop too.   Punishing them, after they behave like this for years and years, if they ever get caught, is futile.  Severe damage is done to their victims and the perpetrator's behaviour becomes habitual and cemented.   There has to be a way to correct this behaviour, and trying to understand it, in my opinion, is the place to start.  The science of this problem is not developing fast enough.  It's not keeping up with the problem and the problem is growing because of the ignorance of people in general.

I know.  I was one of the ignorant people too.  I used to think exactly like you do until this happened in my family.  I have nursed poor little babies that have been abused.  I had a great desire to stop this behaviour from happening and now I have an even greater desire to stop it.   I'm not God so I can't do a whole lot but I sure wish I could at least find someone else who has been through this so I wouldn't feel so alone.

You give me potential and hypothetical...situations and ask me to give you answers.  Here's one for you.  What if this were your son that behaved like this?   Think about this very carefully.




I am just somebody who has been greatly abused too.  I don't know where you expected me to go besides a support board for abused people and since my Nsister is the area I am having such a hard time with, I thought this N board might help.  I agree, it was pretty stupid of me to expect anything better than a tongue lashing.  I don't know what any of you expect to gain by giving that to me but I will tell you that I feel a lot worse now than I did before I came here and it took me a very long time to get the guts up to reach out.  I cried last evening, all evening, after reading your words and I do know this...

Your words wouldn't hurt me if I were evil.

Good luck to you all.  I hope you have learned something.  I certainly have.  I  am now completely sure that I must be dishonest and keep all of these awful secrets and hold whatever pain I have inside or, risk another and repeated attack by ignorant, discourteous, angry, unwilling to empathize persons who "think" they know what they would do in such a situation.  I thought I knew that too.

I do hope you all find peace within your lives and that you will reconsider your reactions to this awful problem.   And MM, I don't think you are mean.  I think you have been hurt very deeply too and I'm sorry for you having to endure that.  I hope you continue to try to heal.