Newbie

[Somebody]

My wish for you Portia is that you will hear what I am saying, that I do not wish to hurt you, but that I will not give up my free will, my choice, my voice, and that you would be best to stop trying to force, that it's not your fault that you have learned to do this, and that I understand and only wish to help you stop fooling yourself.

To control.

[Somebody]

To control or wish to control one's own life, one's own situation, one's own thread on a message board, is quite acceptable.

We all want to control our own stuff and so we should.  Otherwise, we would be like zombies, running around like robots, letting others push all the buttons and make us go.  

To want and to work so very hard at controlling others,
is not acceptable.

It shows a difficulty in defining boundaries.
It shows a lack of empathy and respect.
It is unacceptable behaviour.

Demand respect people.
You deserve to be respected.

Don't let controlling people get the best of you.
Understand that they don't really see, that they may not be aware, that they feel trapped in their behaviour, if they are aware of what they are doing, and try to help them stop.

I'm so sorry Portia.
I really am.

I will help you in any reasonable way I can.
I do not wish to hurt you or insult you or show you any disrespect.

[Portia]

Somebody, I'm still talking to you.

You think your sister is an N. You come here looking for advice.

You tell us your H did something to your child.

You are still with your H.

I cannot sweep aside the abuse of your child and answer your N question. I need to know you better. I need to know the whole story. I need to be able to relate to you.

The whole story Somebody. It matters.

What did he do?

[Somebody]

No Portia.

I came here to voice my emotions.

I did not ask for advice.

I'm not asking you to answer anything Portia and I feel disrespected, insulted, hurt, shamed, degraded, judged incorrectly, by yours, and some other's words, but most of all I feel your attempt to force, Portia and I don't accept it.

I am sorry Portia.

I am not asking you to understand me or my situation or my story anymore.  I already did that and you tried to focus this thread on one issue, without "wanting to empathize", without hearing or waiting to hear the rest of the story.   I'm not interested in giving you those details now because I feel that you will only continue in this fashion of speaking disrespectfully to me. You're still trying to force the issue to be what you choose.  You're still trying to control what topic is discussed here.

Now, after all of these struggles, you suddenly want the rest of the story.  I'm sorry Portia.  I don't feel comfortable giving you that now.  You have hurt me and you have not acknowledged it.  You haven't taken responsibility for your behaviour.  You're simply trying to force me to speak about what you want me to speak about.

Control Portia.

I'm so sorry.  I really am.  I will do anything I can to help you see this and I will do anything I can to help you understand that this behaviour is wrong.  It is wrong to try to force or control others.  Period.

Force.
Control.

I am so sorry Portia.  I really am.  It's a tough thing to face up to.

[Portia]

What is the truth?

I've changed in my attitude to you. I really want to know. I do.

What did he do?

[Anonymous]

Hi Somebody, I read your very long post with interest. I can see you've spent a lot of time into trying to present a 'scenario change' to change the focus of the thread away from you and your H, which I agree needs changing. You seem to want it to focus on correcting Portia. I think that's your choice and voice. But I also have choice and voice. And I just wanted to comment on a couple of your comments, if that's okay.

Somebody said

Please do not be insulted.

But surely that's the person's choice. Can you allow them choice and free will please?  

Then Somebody said

Swearing is verbal abuse.  

And the same goes for sexual abuse of children, or don't you think so? It is sexual abuse. But that doesn't seem to concern you as much as being sworn at. Let's not mince words. Your H is a predator of your children, while he was sleeping with you. And you've sided with him. Your sister realises this.

Then Somebody said

You cannot redefine verbal abuse to suit your needs.

Then by the same standard, you cannnot redifine sexual abuse of children to suit your needs.

Then Somebody said

If swearing were not deemed so, then we would all be happily raising our kids by constantly swearing at them, and our teachers would have gone to great ends to teach us the most descriptive ways of using and the correct way of spelling -our swear words.  (Can you picture that?  What fun that would be eh?).

Likewise, if sexual abuse of children were not deemed inappropriate, then we'd all happily raise our children to be constantly sexually abused, and our teachers would go to great ends to teach children how to have appropriate sex with their step-fathers, and how to make sure that when they do, that their little vaginas don't tear all the way up to their rectums, so as to need stitches. Or as in little boys, that their anuses don't split so wide open, needing major surgery. Teachers would tell them how to do it so as not to cause injury. Can you picture that?What fun would that be eh?

The type of injury, just physical injury alone that no doubt your H would have happily inflicted if your child had agreed? Or did he just want a head job? In which case that's okay then, and I have no problem that. NOT!  

Obviously swearing is the real issue here folks.

[Somebody]

The truth, Portia, is that you are demanding to know information, quite personal information at that, another sign that you are not respecting the boundaries each person has.

The demanding part is very controlling.

The truth, Portia, is that continuing to bump up your post, you are trying to force everyone who reads this thread, to read your post first.

Force Portia.
Control Portia.

Please, please hear me.  It is not your fault that you have learned to do this and I understand your great desire to be in charge of this thread, to keep the focus where you want it and to silence all other ideas.  

It is not an easy thing to face up to.

[Portia]

you are not respecting the boundaries each person has.

You are starting to make me speechless.

The truth, Portia, is that continuing to bump up your post, you are trying to force everyone who reads this thread, to read your post first.

It is not my post. That is the truth.

For pity's sake: what did he do? It's a simple question.

[Somebody]

Just as it was not an easy thing for my husband to face up to his behaviour.

Although, he did so on his own.  He did not have the advantage you have Portia.  He did not have my offer of support or understanding, not until he actually made the choice to face up to it, did I make a decision in that regard.  Nor did I give him the information I am giving you Portia.  I didn't tell him that he would need to face up to his behaviour or lose any support from me (but he is not a stupid person so I am sure he figgered that out on his own).


Just as it is not easy for my sister to face up the her behaviour.
Although, she did have my offer of support and understanding.

Are you my sister Portia?  (Remember Dr. Zues (wish I could spell), are you my mother??? ).

Just kidding.  Honestly.  I know it is not easy to admit it when we do wrong.  I know it is hard to admit a control issue.  I know it takes courage to face up to behaviour that is wrong.

I have done wrong myself, many times in my life.

It takes courage and honesty to admit to wrong doing and to face the consequences.

For you Portia, the important consequence of facing up to the fact that you are so very determined to control this thread, to contol the topic, to quiet my voice unless I do what you demand, the valuable consequence of recognizing the truth is.....

Moving from denial into acceptance.
(with maybe a few steps inbetween but who's counting?)

Portia, you are a good person.  You have a very strong, very correct moral base.  You have so much going for you.

I'm asking you to stop trying to control this thread.  Please be honest and courageous.  Please stop trying to control my voice.

[Portia]

Please stop trying to control my voice.

Incredulous, slightly hysterical laughter from me. The kind of laughter that turns to tears very quickly.

Somebody: I almost don't know what to say. Except:

Please tell me - what did he do? Please?

[Somebody]

Your laughter is inappropriate Portia.

What I am saying to you is not the least bit funny.

You are demanding information and trying to control this thread.

Please stop.

[Portia]

My 'laughter' is my safeguard against complete insanity caused by crazy-makers.

I will not stop, no.

What did your H do to your child?

Why won't you answer this simple question?

[Somebody]

That's an interesting coping mechanism.  But are you aware that it actually makes you look like the "crazy maker" when you use it inappropriately?

No insult intended.  Truly.

Why do you demand to know this information Portia?

Why, why, why must you maintain this attempt to force it?

No, I am sorry.  I already explained but I will repeat.  I do not feel comfortable giving you information about my situation any more because you have treated me with such disrespect and caused me to lose trust in you Portia.

Please stop asking, over and over, for the information.

Please stop trying to control the topic.

Please realize that you have behaved in a similar fashion to what my husband did, and to what my sister did.  Please be aware that we all behave in ways that we regret sometimes and that we are all fallable and that you are just as good as anyone else.

Please know that I understand this and I understand that your desire to control my thread, to control the topic, to know information that I don't feel comfortable giving you, was taught to you.

And it isn't your fault.

[Portia]

That's an interesting coping mechanism. But are you aware that it actually makes you look like the "crazy maker" when you use it inappropriately?

 Use it? It’s spontaneous. I can’t help it. Use it?

I’ve told you why I want, why I would like the information about what your H did to your child. It’s to understand. To relate. I am not in a position to demand, Somebody.

I can’t make you do anything. Everything you do here is your own choice, your own responsibility. You are responsible for answering me, engaging with me here. You don’t have to respond.

I don’t have to respond either. I shall stop soon. I’m getting tired, but I’d really like to know about the truth about your H and your child. Maybe I’ll just ask another day.

Please stop trying to control the topic.

I am tired. What is the topic Somebody? What do you think the topic is?

you have treated me with such disrespect and caused me to lose trust in you Portia.

Do you mean to say that you did once trust me? That would amaze me. Surely we don’t know each other well enough to trust? Depends what you mean by trust I guess. Disrespect? Well, respect is earned, we all know that.

Please realize that you have behaved in a similar fashion to what my husband did, and to what my sister did. Please be aware that we all behave in ways that we regret sometimes and that we are all fallable and that you are just as good as anyone else.

Please know that I understand this and I understand that your desire to control my thread, to control the topic, to know information that I don't feel comfortable giving you, was taught to you.

And it isn't your fault.

Please realise that you are trying to control my mind. And your attempts are not working. P

[Somebody]

The good news is that you have stopped swearing at me Portia and I must compliment you on doing that much.

It's so interesting the way different people think, isn't it?

You can think what you want.
That is your choice.
I can't control your mind.

The topic was.............my feelings, as I have already said.

You are trying to make it.................information you now require to understand what you didn't "want" to empathize with and understand prior to now.

I do congratulate you, Portia, on making that progress.
That is a good thing.  You say you "want" to understand now and to relate.

That's great!

But you are demanding that I answer your question (so to speak) by repeatedly asking for it, even though I have told you that I don't feel comfortable answering it now, and even though I have given you the reasons why, even though I have asked you to stop asking for the information.  You want that info don't you Portia?

You want to control this thread and you want to force me to answer your question and that's why you will not stop asking for the answer (and thus, demanding I answer it before we go any further).

To keep the topic......the answer to the question you have now asked.
Prior to this.....the topic you wanted was to focus on what my husband did.
This is still the same topic you are requiring.

I wanted the topic of this thread to be my feelings.
But you won't allow that.
You went on to cause hurt.
You are still trying to keep the focus where you want it.

Control Portia.
Force by repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly insist, insist, and just keep on with what-----you--------want.

It is a demanding thing you are wanting.
I am sorry Portia, I do not mean to hurt your feelings in any way and I do not mean to cause you to feel "scared" or like I am trying to "control your mind" or anything else inappropriate.

I am trying to help you see that you are the pot calling the kettle black by behaving like the kettle.


Respect.  I'm sorry that you believe such a thing, Portia.  All people deserve respect.  All people have a basic human right to respect.

A little child deserves respect and does not need to earn it.
That respect is one thing in this life that should be assumed.
That respect is a given.
The child does not have to earn that respect, Portia.

Respect can be lost and yes, Portia, then it must be earned back.

Trust, yes I did trust you.  I read some of your ramblings and I decided that you seemed like a good person.   I was shocked, hurt, and insulted by your posts to me and I lost that trust immediately.

I am responding to you Portia and I have responded with my observations and I have responded with my feelings.

You have not acknowledged my feelings nor responded to my observation that you behaved in a way that  created those feelings.

I am sorry Portia, I know this can't be an easy thing to acknowledge.