Being Underwater

[Ami]

I have not gone to therapists for a long time, so have not been "diagnosed " with anything.However,I knew that my thinking and emotions were not "right".
  I didn't really trust a therapist with my "mind", as I have not had "good luck" with them. I gave my power away to them ,too much, BUT they took it ,which was not right ,either.
  Anyway, between that history AND my M being a therapist,I did not trust therapists.
  I bring all this up to say that I KNEW I had thinking problems and emotional  problems and had NO idea how to get help, so I  gave up.
 I call the experience of being" lost in your emotions and thoughts", being "underwater".
 To me, it feels like you are drowning. You know that there is s/thing wrong with you,but you have no idea HOW to rectify it. I was about 6 feet under the water,  when I  came on the board. Now ,I am 1.5 feet under water(--approximatly - lol)
 I saw the shore today--bright, happy, peaceful, ---for a while.
 , Feeling whole and at peace for a short time was wonderful and showed me that I could ,indeed, get there, and hopefully would get there for longer and longer times.
  I guess my point in writing this thread is that people who ARE "underwater" cannot help it. I see that *I* and my M could NOT help it.
  It is NOT the person's fault.
  I just wanted to bring up this  topic and see what people had to say about it,if anything.          Ami

[Ami]

 For me, I see the use of phrases such as "coming together" , "fell apart, was shattered,became unglued  etc as representing what REALLY happens. Somehow ,you splinter.
 I was thinking about BPD, b/c we were discussing this , yesterday. What  happened? The person had 'normal" needs for connection and safetly and did not have them met, so the person adapted, as best  they could, in ORDER to survive. The adaptation THEN became the problem.
 I starting seeing all of this when I went in to shock, on hearing about Scott's death.When the police came to the door(11:30 PM)  I let them in.I said,"Is it my son?". They said, "Ma'am, we want to talk to you when your H is here."I said that I could not walk upstairs to get him .
 They told my H . Then, I went in to shock. I sat on the bed and started praying. They were looking at me and asking me if I was ok. I said that I was just praying . I was afraid that they would take me to the hospital .
 I have been in shock, since then, even though it has worn off to some degree.
 So, I have a new respect for defense mechanisms. IF s/one is an NPD, BPD, neurotic, depressive, anxiety ridden, social anxiety, etc , it is like my shock. It just happens so you won't lose your mind, probably.
  At that moment when shock hit me, I had no control over it . It helped me to function. I got through  various things. It was NOT me, it was the shock mechanism.
 That is how we get through life, with varying degress of the shock mechanism(IMO) and they call it all the 'names"---BPD, depression, anxiety, etc.
  I just need to talk, in these coming days ,as I try to come together, from Scott's death and way before Scott's death.
   Thank you for listening.                        Ami

[ann3]

Hello Ami,

You are very insightful and very deep.  I especially like your insight here:

  I was thinking about BPD, b/c we were discussing this , yesterday. What  happened? The person had 'normal" needs for connection and safetly and did not have them met, so the person adapted, as best  they could, in ORDER to survive. The adaptation THEN became the problem.

I think this is very profound and true.

You are going through such horrific shock.  I feel for you. Please be kind to yourself, try to take it day by day.

Have you considered joining a support group for parents who have experiences what you have experienced?  I think it could be helpful.

[ann3]

I guess my point in writing this thread is that people who ARE "underwater" cannot help it. I see that *I* and my M could NOT help it.
  It is NOT the person's fault.
  I just wanted to bring up this  topic and see what people had to say about it,if anything. 

Hello Ami,
I agree with you:  How could we know what we didn't know?  How could we see what we didn't see?  Very true.  But, now that we know and see that we were underwater and we gave up, the question becomes what will we do about it now, today?  We can't change the past.  Yesterday's gone.  But, we can change our perspectives today so that tomorrow is better.

As far as "fault", I've learned to let go of the word and concept.  "Fault" is an N word and an "N" concept, so I'm leaving it behind.  It's not about fault, it's about awareness.  As you implied:   How could we know what we didn't know?  How could we see what we didn't see? We couldn't.  But, now we are aware, so we can change.  And now that I have awareness, I see and understand that "fault" is a toxic word, like "Blame".  "Blame" and "Fault" and useless, toxic words and concepts, they are full of judgment and only make us feel bad.  They don't help.  What helps is "awareness", "understanding" , "compassion" and "empathy", which help us to live better in the present and future. 

[Ami]

Dear Ann
  Thank you so much for your response. I was kind of "hanging out there"  (lol). You understood what I was saying , I am seeing in to the deep layers of emotional illness and mental illness(IMO)
  The pain of losing Scott is propelling me forward b/c I simply cannot push the current  pain and earlier pain "under the rug". I may as well take this time to "swim up" ,which I needed to do before Scott died, anyway.
 I am seeing that many  "complicated " syndromes may  possibly have some simple roots,like being able to face the truth about yourself and life.
 I have to trust the Bible's promise that we WILL be free IF we can face the truth. So, far I have come up from deeper layers of lies.
  Thank you again ,Ann, so much for your post.                   Love   Ami
 

[DailyMail]

It's too bad Fritz Perls didnt know how to have healthy committed relationships.  He was brilliant, but he was a Narcissist.  What his Gestalt prayer lacks is any concept of empathy and commitment.  It's no wonder his children suffered horribly throughout their lives. -- Sorry, I personally find the Gestalt prayer hard to swallow considering whose mouth it came from.

About being underwater, it's a fascinating metaphor.  I've thought of myself a number of times as treading water, in the middle of a vast lake, with a weight belt weighing me down, flippers making it hard to kick, and a snorkel making it harder to breathe.

But tread we do, breathe we must.

Swim on.

[Gabben]

 I starting seeing all of this when I went in to shock, on hearing about Scott's death.When the police came to the door(11:30 PM)  I let them in.I said,"Is it my son?". They said, "Ma'am, we want to talk to you when your H is here."I said that I could not walk upstairs to get him .
 They told my H . Then, I went in to shock. I sat on the bed and started praying. They were looking at me and asking me if I was ok. I said that I was just praying . I was afraid that they would take me to the hospital .
 I have been in shock, since then, even though it has worn off to some degree.

Ami -- what is happening here is the shock is wearing off and the first layer of pain is starting to come through. Your are telling us your story here. The story of hearing the news of Scott's death, the trauma of hearing about his death, that is or was the point where evil became a reality for you.

Just as you say here, the brain's way of coping, because our brains and bodies were not made for evil, is to go into shock, or protect us against the reality of evil.

Scott's death was a trauma for you. Part of how we heal trauma is to go to the wound. Mental illness or disorder develops because of a refusal to suffer or to face reality.

So, I have a new respect for defense mechanisms. IF s/one is an NPD, BPD, neurotic, depressive, anxiety ridden, social anxiety, etc , it is like my shock. It just happens so you won't lose your mind, probably.
  At that moment when shock hit me, I had no control over it . It helped me to function.

Exactly, our bodies would die from the full impact of such a trauma as loosing a son.  People can die from a broken heart.
Your shock protected you.

(((((AMI))))))

[Gabben]

Ami -- please keep telling the story of what it was like for you hear about scott's death. Talk about Scott as much as you want and for as long as you need to.

(((((((((AMI)))))))))

Lise

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 You are right about dying of a broken heart. I never thought of it that way. . I feel like my M broke my heart( not meaning to) and I went in to  a type of "shock".
 My "normal" everyday  self(before Scott's death)  was  "numb" ,too,but I did not recognize it ,until I got the huge dose of numbness ,with Scott's death. Then,I realized that they BOTH were defense mechanisms and they were  automatic.
 When you see a really "screwed up" person,it is from trying to adapt to pain  and trauma ,which was too great(IMO).(I am leaving aside biological" issues )
  Anyway, I learned that  from my current experience.
 Also, God really, really manifests Himself to you when you are broken hearted. It is really amazing. I can see how Mud got so strong.        Ami