Legal/Emotional Struggles

[phoenix]

bye

[Portia]

Hiya Phoenix, you lurker you!   Welcome back.

I’ve just read your post and …. Sometimes, very rarely, some people make me think about resorting to physical violence, or at least the threat of it. Because they’re controlling bullies and they just might understand the concept of “if you don’t give me my money, I’ll nuke your house/car/golf course.” It might hit the spot, so to speak. But I don’t agree with violence, just daydreaming.

when I mentioned getting legal help, he warned me to be prepared to handle the consequences, should I choose that.

 Empty threats. If he says this again, ask him to be precise about what he means. Really precise. “I’ll ruin you” how? “You’ll lose” why are you so sure? “Because I’m right” then why are you threatening me? It’s all rubbish. Is he very status-conscious? Maybe you could threaten him by telling him you’ll write this story – ‘Rich bully Father withholds inheritance from daughter living on $xxx a week’ kind of thing. – all over the local press. Or you could print your own leaflets. Ha ha! I love daydreaming on behalf of other people.

I just learned she fears he is going to ask for it back, to be held by him until some future time when she buys another house.

There’s the law and the law. Either he can *take* it back, or he can’t. Presumably if he just asks, she will tell him where to go?

Keep going with the lawsuit. Take the legal advice. Separate the emotion (mum’s lunch) from the logic and the law. Hey, I’m thinking….if you succeed, how do you actually get your hands on the money? Presumably he is served a notice to hand it over, but what if he doesn’t? Do you have to keep going back to court? Until they tell him they’ll put him in prison? And how far will he go? Is that what his threats mean – you’ll have to fight all the way? I don’t know the legal process involved, but I wonder. P

[phoenix]

bye

[Anonymous]

Relatives sue each other all the time. You have nothing to lose.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Phoenix,

Welcome back.  

I hate to say it, but it scares me and I don't know why! The idea of failing in this endeavour, facing his victory, is almost immobilizing.

I'd say this is the fear of the unknown more than fear of your dad.  A good lawyer (there are some good ones   ) will tell you if you have a case or not.  You are right that there are proper procedures, etc, that executors have to follow.  He is assuming that you wouldn't have a clue what they are.  Get a lawyer, the most scrupulous estate planning attorney you can find and tell him what is going on.  Some EP attorneys even specialize in litigating estate matters (not just drawing up wills and trusts).

Many executors play fast and loose with other people's money because THEY are the ignorant ones or at least, very self-serving.  They MUST mind their Ps and Qs.  Don't go by what HIS lawyer says, because if they are blowing it, it's his butt, too.  

Failure in a lawsuit aside, I think you will feel better knowing the rules of the game.  If you can throw that at him, he's gonna go running.  Call his bluff.  I think if you are anywhere near close to scaring him, he's going to get noisier and more blustery.  That should encourage, not discourage you.  Even if you cannot get your money outright, it does sound like you could be successful in getting another executor (like a bank officer) appointed.

If you can't afford a lawyer, get some books by Nolo Press on the issue.  You might want to do this anyway to prep for your first meeting with a lawyer.   Educate yourself.  Good luck and welcome back, Seeker

[Anonymous]

Hi Phoenix,

A PS for you,

If you are represented by a lawyer and inform your dad and his lawyer of that fact, your dad's lawyer has to communicate to you through your lawyer.  So don't worry about Dad siccing his lawyer on you directly to intimidate you.  That's a big no-no.

Again, good luck.  I hope you kick his butt.  Seeker

[phoenix]

bye

[Anonymous]

Hi Phoenix,
I noticed you were back a few days ago... Welcome back sweet sweet Phoenix.  I remember when you had to leave the last time..sounds like you had a little bit of peace though. But the grief continues with your N dad!  Sheesh, some days you think it'll never end!  I sure understand that!

Legal battles with the family..why..that's just what i've been through! For the past two years.  You've gathered already from answering my other post that there has been a reckoning and reconciliation between me and my immediate family.  Layers of stuff has been peeled off, but essentially this is what happened.

My ex-wife up and left all of a sudden, she couldn't take anymore because........(?...big question mark)  There are things I was unaware of which I have become aware of with the benefit of hindsight.  Although my ex-wife was very nice to me turns out that no one liked her in my family or in the immediate viscinity..that I didn't know.  However, no one will ever convince me that she was a terrible person..she had problems of her own..I could go on in detail but this has become unnecessary because I understand now at a deep and personal level that our relationship was not healthy.
 I did and do maintain much respect for her:  a celebrated professional rider, literate, creative but with very deep rooted personal problems with which I could no longer live.
Also..( i'm just bringing you up to date here..!) and as weird as this might appear to you, my parents thought she was working me to death..I was working a lot, ( haven't taken a vacation..a real one in almost ten years..) and spoke to her about that and her attitude toward "us" was unacceptable to them!  Imagine!
Phoenix, elderly Ns get these ideas inside their heads and they act on them.  My N parents, for all intents and purposes, facilitated the rupture between my ex wife and me.  It was wrong of them to intrude like this, and I was very loyal to her 'til the end..but then she left.  There's more but I can't go there right now.
The point i'm getting to is this.  My N adoptive Parents had an agenda, most of which only they were privvy to.  They had a life plan for MY life!  Of course this is wrong..wrong wrong wrong..but that is the way they operate, they can't see the wrongness in what they've done because they are unreachable.  There was no way that " that woman" was going to see one penny of THEIR money..ever!  They did not like her VOICE, they did not grant her PERSONHOOD and , believe it or not they were determined to rescue ME ( ) from such a demon.  That's the long and short of it really...a weird twisted nightmare.
You will remember how we had a lawyer.. a very good one..a very very good one..and they had a very good one as well..a very good litigation lawyer, who said all the nasty and horrible stuff you would expect a very good litigation lawyer to say.  They also had tons of money to throw at this case, we didn't....it takes an awful lot of money to authenticate what you can already prove by just saying it!  By this I mean, forensic audits, which are thousands of dollars per hour..we didn't have the money to get one of those.  They were accusing us therefore the onus was on us to prove everything but we didn't have the dollars to do that.  WE had the documents, but didn't have the money.  Perhaps in your case, since you are the plaintiff, your dad would have a whole lot of stuff to prove which would require him expending alot of money resources?  and maybe he doesn't want to do that.  It costs more to defend that to accuse is what i'm saying..in my case that tactic was used and was effective.
So my case had two levels, the legal stuff ( no justice included here!) and the personal stuff.  My parents detested my ex...both the lawyers knew that, and the objective was to get her out of my life.  As an adult, I would have done that in a much more sincere and honest way, because our relationship was headed that way ultimately, my parents violated my intimate space once again.
So how come you've resumed contact with them Nic? 1- because i love them and I know they love me. 2- because they are elderly and Ns, and i've come to realize there is nothing I can do ever to change them.3- because I realized I had to let it go, I had to set up boundaries and see to it myself they were respected.  I visit them together ( they do not own where I live nor did they pay for it)..I make sure I don't break my own rules.4- because it was time for me to grow up ( that's ruddy painful!!) 5- because in my time away from them I realized how overinvolved ( fused) with them I was and that's not healthy.6-The time away from them was beneficial to both parties..they know i can leave again if they don't somehow control their N urges and I own my own life and time.7- because at their age they're never going to change and at my age,41, it's high time I build a satisfying true self of my own.
In a nutshell ( no pun intended) these are some of the reasons I can come up with at this time.
It's abhorrent that your Dad would see you live in need, he's a few notches more sadistic than my Ns are.  You know the add on tv that says, never let them see you sweat!  The add directed at Ns would be, never let them know they've either won or lost!
In court, Ns can usually be embarrassed if it's well proven that they've lied, however depending what the point of law is, if they are legally entitled to anything, they'll hold on to it and frankly there is little you can do.  It's just important to explore exactly what you're options are and it is very important for the N perpetrators to understand that THEY ARE NOT THE LAW!
Gosh I wish you luck with this..There are so many twists and turns with Ns, and when they're your Mom or Dad or both and you can't reach them other than at their own level ( excluding your own of course!) it just makes it all the more painful.  For myself, i'm accepting who they are and loving them at a distance...that's the best i can do, come to think of it there really is no alternative.

It was important for me to get beyond all the crazy-making now, before their death.  I had become too enmeshed with the system they created, i had compromised my own life and happiness too often to accomodate them ( guilt, shame,abandonment,rejection- which they used often) and to my detriment.  The climax of all this dysfunction would have been their dying and my living having known only them, having loved only them AND having forgotten all about me.  I would have ultimately been lost, confused, alone, frustrated etc. and less a voice.

It's been a crazy way of getting around to living my own life..a very weird way!  It's been so unhealthy and strangulating and sometimes I think: have you really been blessed Nic to have the intelligence not only to understand what happened but to have been able to navigate sanely through it?
The whole story has left me shell-shocked and exhausted..I need a big rest, it's affecting everything.  Luckily I sleep well, eat well, have a good paying job and I have someone who loves me, AND i'm genuinely beginning to love myself.  Slowly but surely..
I so don't want to give anyone the impression that I'm over the hump and just sooo happy now tralala..'cause i don't feel that way yet.  I have good days and bad days, really good days, and really bad days...but my times they are a changin'..
I love you Phoenix and wish you all the best..above all a moment of bliss where you can feel how important you are without any doubt.  Welcome back,
Nic

[Nic]

Phoenix,
my f_____in' session was over so i was automatically logged out..so that's me above.
Nic

[write]

sorry you're having a bad time Phoenix, sounds like you're having physical/ mental symptoms, did you get these checked out with a doctor or psychiatrist?

I take medication now and it's been a huge help with the PTSD aspect.

[Anonymous]

I have discovered in my dealing with N parents and N husband that most of it is about money in some form or another.  

Oh, I wish I had the nerve to give some stories about my birth family and how love and money are the same with them, as are love and manipulative control.  I am writing about it though, so who knows what will happen.  I talked with a well known author about verbal abuse in my family, giving examples, and she was appalled!  She suggested I move across the country.  Well, perhaps!  LOL  Nice to think about but I had rather know I have the emotional fortitude and sense of self not to let their manipulative tactics bother me anymore.

Divorcing the xN was about money also.  I had it and he wanted it.  He almost destroyed my sense of self before the divorce over money and tried to finish it off during the divorce.  Fought in court like a warrior wearing his Viet Nam clothes even, but I won!  Strange though, I am doing great now but I saw him at the wedding of our daughter last week and he is truly having some problems. Well, I mean they are showing up more evidently.  Ah well, I move on.

Stand up for what you know is right!

[phoenix]

bye

[phoenix]

bye

[phoenix]

bye

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of new ‘faces’. Hello! I’ve kinda gotten to know many of you.

I’ve been back online for a month now, and I feel that I placed myself behind a self imposed wall. I’ve just been lurking, reading and learning from everyone else’s post. I’ve found myself reluctant to join back in, mostly due to the effort of writing. I feel tired all the time, the stress of living with this ongoing issue, the sorrow of watching my life and dreams and aspirations go by, held out of reach by my controlling father. It is affecting my body. Someone on another thread talked about PSTD; I have all those symptoms.

Pheonix, didn't you just tell Michelle you'd have loved to have stepped and contributed in the past month but couldn't cause you weren't hooked up. Make up your minds Pheonix gal. And you wrote this, when? HUH!


Here we go gathering Nuts in May, Nuts in May, Nuts in May.

Where do I start?

How about a refresher?

My beginning posts, way back in January, (only just this past January?) were regarding an ongoing issue with my father over money bequeathed to me from my Grandmother. He is Executor and I am Beneficiary. In a never ending struggle for autonomy from this man, this is his last real hold, holding out this money from me: Demanding certain requirements be fulfilled in order to get it, things that are not of my nature… I won’t go back over the details; being fellow survivors of N’s , you know  the story. If you are wanting to know, you can go back and read my original posts.

Where am I now with all this?

I am preparing to file a lawsuit against my dad. I have a number of things against him, things he neglected to do or did improperly, that might get him removed as Executor.

The real issue I have with him is that I believe that there is a later amended trust that he has kept from me, and the other family members involved.


Two reasons I suspect this:

1> I remember a discussion with my Grandmother as she was waiting for my dad to pick her up to meet with her attorney. At that time she was practically biting her nails over wanting to drop my mom from her Will/Trust. She was afraid my mom would find out and be angry. I was livid, though I kept it myself. Although my parents had been divorced for a number of years at this time, my mom had still continually helped her out and stayed in contact. My grandmother never mentioned my mother again in regards to her will. I was too sick at heart to ever ask.

It turned out there was money in the trust for my mom. But wait- I remember clearly this discusion with her was years later than the Trust my father offered as last Will and Testament. Something not right here.

2>At a later date she told me my she was sorry, but that she felt my dad was going to make it difficult for me to get my money, and she just couldn’t fight with him over it. Then she said,”But don’t worry, there will be a time the money will come to you automatically”, and she said a certain age, but I wasn’t listening too well at the time (I was driving her somewhere). I also didn’t like to talk much about it.

I challenged my cagey father at first over all this, but I ultimately backed down on pursing it because my mom received some money from this(amended)Trust (The second- I believe there is a third). At the time my dad made some remark to her that if you don’t need it, give it to your children. Of course , he didn’t offer to split his share- and he has plenty of money to spare where my mother doesn’t. He also said to me something about her receiving the money, and how the money should really be for my sister and I (!)

So I feel he is lying and I just hated seeing my mom find out the truth. That she was never in the final trust; it’s not about the money. It’s her learning my Grandmother, after years of fussing over her and telling her that she would get a small inheritance, gushing “I love you so much, dear”. This is why I originally opted instead to just forget about it.

Then I lost my job, not one easily replaced, and a month later my car was totaled. I’ve been out of work for months, working only very sporadically.


Two  months ago my dad met with my mother over friendly pretenses to find out what is going on with me. I was furious, but did not try to discourage her. When she came home from this lunch she told me how kind he really was. I went ballistic. I was so upset. She fell for it! I know better.  I was so helplessly angry with her, and all she could do was say, “Why are you angry at me?” “ How did I get in the middle of this?” “ Because”, I said, “You went to lunch with him! You fell right into his trap.”

After there lunch he ended up sending me a small  amount of my money- the interest earned on the initial investment- to  help me out because of my hardship. "Love, Dad", it was signed.

I was not happy with this, as it only takes care of my immediate needs, and doesn’t help my get beyond my circumstances. It allowed him to do just what he wanted-dole out my money, have me so down I couldn't say no. I would have sent it back if I wasn’t so desperate. I was able to buy a car and pay off some bills. And put away a little for some legal help.

One of the things I have on him is that the last Trust- the one he says is the last - was not signed by my Grandmother. I am pretty sure I know whose handwriting it is, and I am trying to obtain a copy of this other person’s signature. But I know this is not my Grandmothers writing. I am sure of it. I don’t think my father was trying to pull any thing over on any one; I think he just got lazy and did what was easy for him at the time, by not having to drive to my Grandmother’s to get her signature. This is typical of my father and why I don’t respect his authority. This doesn’t negate the whole Will and previous Trust, but it does cast suspicion and doubt on his ability to act as Trustee. And what a mess I think he will want to avoid, having all the past records brought up and scrutinized!

I do not want to do this. I hate having to do this. I have to push past all these emotions and keep plodding forward. But I feel that I have been pushed into a corner and am preparing to fight my way out. Sometimes I feel so weak and want to quit. I feel full of doubt, numb to the reality that I deserve and have a duty to fight for myself.

At one point when I mentioned getting legal help, he warned me to be prepared to handle the consequences, should I choose that. I hate to say it, but it scares me and I don't know why! The idea of failing in this endeavour, facing his victory, is almost immobilizing.  

My sister, who he assisted in helping her buy a house with her inheritance, at great cost to her self-esteem, just by his controlling belittling ways,sold the house, and now has the money socked away in the bank. I just learned she fears he is going to ask for it back,  to be held by him until some future time when she buys another house. “No way”, I said, “can he get it back now!” But the thought that she believes he would actually do that! Would he dare, I ask myself? I just laughed.
My father is a nightmare. And I feel sorry for him. I can see how really small he must feel inside.

My dad’s stance is that it is his duty as a parent to do what is necessary to protect me (and sis) from making decisions (mistakes) in life that can potentially be harmful, due to my own lack of experience, or ignorance. I am a 47 years old. I want to be out from under his thumb.