Author Topic: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone  (Read 1840 times)

Gaining Strength

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Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« on: February 27, 2008, 08:51:26 AM »
I am posting this at the risk of irritating some because I found myself very, very frustrated and unable to deal with it on my own.  I know that there are many here who will be irritated by my post but I ask that you start another thread to voice that on.  I am not trying to start a fight but I am trying to find a means to express my frustration. 

Not feeling a legitimate way to voice my thoughts is reminecent of my FOO.  This is a touchy subject and not for everyone.

I wrote this to post on one of the last RM threads yesterday but when I pressed POST it said TOPIC LOCKED.  So I put it away but it is something that I really want to discuss with those who are also frustrated.

RM posted
Quote
Again, the original post was NOT referring to ANYONE.  It never mentioned anyone's name nor even the specific court situation.

There is a big difference between not mentioning anyone's name and not referring to anyone. 

I was wondering to myself why I have found myself so drawn to this situation and then this afternoon during a conversation with my brother about our mother - I knew!!!!  And this remark by RM demonstrates precisely what has troubled and frustrated me.

At one point RM asks the person she WAS referring to to come forth and announce herself so that she (RM) can prove to Gabben that she (RM) was not talking about Gabben.  In fact in the original post  RM says "As I was reading a post on this board today.... "

So on the one hand she was motivated by someone's post and then on the other hand she wasn't aiming at them although she asks them to identify themselves so that Gabben won't think RM is posting about Gabben.

What I realized was that I am drawn to and troubled by this lengthy struggle because RM has contradicted herself over and over and no matter how many people have calmly tried to demonstrate to her the conflicts she was creating she has generated more and more contradiction.  There is a complete irrationality to this lengthy discussion/dialogue/conflict.  It is the complete irrationality and lack of insight and lack of interest in looking at herself that is way to familiar to me  and that ultimately became her downfall here on this board. 

It is really too bad because she clearly has a large number of folks here who really like her and enjoy and value her thoughts.

I have chosen to post even though I realize that some will be offended by this post.  But for the past 5 or 6 days I have felt like there was an elephant in the room and no one would say so because the elephant might blast her horn.  Well not identifying the elephant in the room has a way of making me crazy so I decided to post.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2008, 09:35:28 AM by Gaining Strength »

Leah

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 08:54:46 AM »

(((((((((( GS )))))))))))

sincere respect for you, as always.

Leah x
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Hopalong

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 09:11:09 AM »
Hi GS,
I understand your frustration, and I'm sad that RM didn't see it too.

What I think is that this sort of jumping thought-process that made it hard for Laura to understand might have been partially related to her ADHD. She's mentioned that she has been diagnosed with this, if I recall. I was very close to a man with ADD and there would be many occasions when I felt he was stubbornly or unkindly refusing to understand something I perceived as logical or common sense.

In hindsight, I came to believe that he literally did not process logic in the same way.

It also seemed to me that CB's word "aimed" was way overinterpreted by RM. CB may have been revealing some chronic irritation at RM in that word choice, but that was hardly an outrageous or "covert" attack. Nuance is allowed in language. Any of us can find other personalities on the board that mystify or irritate us. I felt that RM seized on that and magnified it into something I don't believe is in CB's character, whether or not she "liked" RM.

RM had, to me, transparent character, and a blunt honesty. She was abrasive and direct, and I think sometimes confused. But I don't think she was manipulative. That said, I also felt that she didn't grasp nuance nor perceive her own insensitivity. I don't think it was malicious, but a combination of lack of awareness of her own ways of relating (how many times did people ask her to cool the capital-letters "yelling"?) and perhaps a lack of capacity to see herself...added up badly.

I think there's a certain amount of denial that enables folks to live in abrasive circumstances, day after day. I have much frustrated compassion for RM's life. I sensed a great desire for dignity and inclusion, that sometimes was derailed by a kind of crude denial. I do believe that RM wants a better life and feels trapped in a spiral of poverty and family dysfunction, and I wish so much better for her. I don't think her life will change as long as she looks to the Internet for validation. And she doesn't need an audience, she needs more education, a real job, and a plan.

These aren't meant to be fighting words, but I also feel that retreating into religion when challenged is sometimes an indication that the questions being posed are too much to face or try to deconstruct or tease apart. If you really can't do that--just don't have the tools or feel trapped by your circumstances--or have buried shame that prevents introspection (I often have)...then it helps to have a holy ally.

I also felt that RM's apologies and efforts to clarify her intentions and understandings, to the best of her ability, before she left...were sincere. (Kind of like Hillary's vote to authorize force in Iraq was "a sincere vote." You can be wrong, and still be sincere.)

I will miss RM. I love and admire and am lifted up by CB and for me, her departure will be temporary or I may lose what little faith I've got!

Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2008, 09:21:28 AM »
Thanks Hops for you very thoughtful and comprehensive post.  It adds much clarity.  I saw that RM was not able to see how her words were taken and that she was trapped by the word "aimed" and unable to view it in any other light.

You are quite right that she was transparent and blunt and not at all manipulative. 

I now understand that I got trapped by the hyperfocus on "aiming" to the exclusion of any other comment or explanation or discussion.  This echoed some form of the crazy making experience in my FOO - one of extreme frustration, part of that invalidating and maddening need to find someone who could agree with me about the craziness.

That is why I took the risk to post here and I am deeply, profoundly thankful for your thought provoking and insightful post.  It really helps me come to terms with the deep sense of frustration that I experienced over the past few days. 

Overcomer

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 09:29:22 AM »
I have learned a lot about myself here.  In Lauras thread I said something like "we can say anything we damn well please" and CB Pointed out that that was my N spot.  My first thought was to react but then I realized that she was right-I was hushed my whole life and was never allowed to speak-now I want to speak and loudly at that.  Then I realized that the very thing I did not like about RM  was the same thing I do not like in my mom and yet I do the same thing.  So I learned something.
Kelly

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Gaining Strength

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2008, 09:34:25 AM »
Wow Overcomer.  That is an amazing realization.  Thank you so much for sharing that.  I hope I can find that kind of honesty in myself.

Dr. Richard Grossman

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 10:03:51 AM »
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone that I locked the threads in question around 10 a.m. last night after reallyME said her final goodbye.  For security reasons, I have also temporarily halted new registrations. 

Best,

Richard

tayana

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 10:06:05 AM »
What I have noticed about the board of late, is that everyone seems so quick to label an errant word as abuse, rather than asking for clarification.  That's what I noticed about Laura's threads.  She was very quick to make assumptions, and I disagree, I found many of her posts manipulative.  It seemed to me that she was seeking attention, and then having a fit when she didn't get it.  Yes, some of her posts were informative and helpful, and I'm sure I might get flamed for my observation.  However, this is what I saw.  It was too much like my mother, and it was one of the reasons I have avoided the board.
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Ami

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 10:06:44 AM »
Dear GS,
  I was discussing this ,with my best friend,last night. Here is my take on it, Laura,due to her particular type of abuse(or reaction to it) was not able to "feel" out the situation,in the proper way.IOW, when Dr G asked for an apology, she was not able to discern HER part in the situation, apart from anyone elses, and apologize for her part,alone(IMO)
  She was '"triggered" by CB( past relationship with her) and was not able to clearly see the present interaction and Dr G's request to aplogize for labeling, which was reasonable.
 Laura got "stuck" in some past "loop", as a record needle will stick ,on a groove.
  I always liked Laura b/c she is "who she is",no pretense. I can allow many mistakes in an honest ,guileless person,as Laura was (IMO)
 Laura always tried to do what she thought was "right", even though she missed a few beats, now and then, as we all do. In trying to help Lise, she could not stop her own free fall, as I see it.
  I am dismayed to see her go, myself.             Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Dr. Richard Grossman

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Re: Careful - beware - touchy subject - not for everyone
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 10:40:53 AM »
Hi Besee,

Thank you for your concern.   Apparently, I cut off Gaining Strength last night in the middle of a post (a random occurrence)--and I think she deserved a final thought and some reaction.  I think everything that needs to be said has been said, and it is time to move on.  As I said previously, I wish reallyME well with her new venture.

Best,

Richard