N-Slaved by N-Saint

[Gabben]

N Saint Therapist enslaved me. Getting out of N-Slave has taken it's toll on me. I had no idea how damaging it was for me to be in a therapeutic relationship with a toxic therapist.  Even now after 6 months I am still wiping her dirt off of my psyche.

She invited me to her ministry, her family to babysit, her circle of followers. I had no idea how much of myself I was going to have to deny to be apart of her following or to engage with her on any level. Just her crossing of boundaries WAS a red flag for me but she had this way of making the wrong seem right.

Here is a list of what would transpire between us on any given therapy session:

I'd start talking about my childhood pains and memories that were coming up. She would respond by talking about her and her husband's bad childhood this would lead me to feel discounted and invalidated as well as guilty for even speaking about my pain.

I'd share with her my desire to help others based on my past and my abilities. She would sit in silence and stare oddly. The constant silent treatment triggered my mind reading...and was invalidating. I had no idea what to make of her cold silence, it was crazy making.

I'd share with her my hope to get healthy, her response was she would put her head down in silence.

There was a monotonous tone or very shallow tone to the way in which she expressed herself. Looking back it seemed mechanical.

I'll never forget the time I had stopped working with her for about three months. I though nothing of it other than I was just not drawn to her. But then when some stuff came up I called her. When we met for our appointment she came across in a way that was so strange; she was very different and the only way I can describe it was she seemed like she was over the top trying to impress me and prove herself to me but there was an under current of competition that only now, in hindsight, can I see it.

I'd share with her my pains concerning the lack of affirming love in my childhood, she would put her head down in silence.

I recall once when I told her that I was invited to speak at a conference, I had been speaking for many years and had a gift for it, she got silent fearful look on her face that I had become so accustomed to.

It still to this day confuses me what all of her silent stares and nonresponses were. It was crazy making. It was all such subtle damaging abuse, so under that radar that it went un-noticed by me because I was so used to sublte emtional abuse from my childhood.

I think it is ironic that this woman who was supposed to help me heal, did help me heal but not in the kind and loving way, she helped me by triggering me because she mirored my N mom, covertly.




http://www.courage.net/types.htm

N-Slaved

'Codependency' is the term given to the dedicated partner of the Narcissist. This becomes a way of life that is rarely analysed and people in this position often idealise it.  It is rationalised using words such as loyal, dedicated, self-sacrificing. The cost includes loss of self-esteem; loss of personal boundaries, loss of a sense of one's own reality; regression to thinking in terms of 'black' and 'white'; and self-neglect. A co-dependent is relatively powerless and  is more likely to be susceptible to being manipulated  when one has experienced verbal, emotional, or sexual abuse suffered earlier in life. Tragically, a child who has been abused in these ways will often marry or partner who is, psychologically, similar to the original abuser and not be conscious of the situation because for him/her being abused feels 'normal'.

[Gabben]

N-Twisted:

One of the most invidious things a Narcissistic person does is to challenge and attempt to change the personal reality of other people in order to have power over them.  The Narcissist may verbally and emotionally abuse to achieve this end but it may be done with seeming concern. When one doubts one's own reality and  allows another person to be the keeper of it one cannot think clearly about one's place in the world, one's relationships, one's goals, etc. Self-determination and a sense of control are lost and these are vital to mental health.


This about sums things up -- I felt invalidated and discounted by N saint.

Gabben

[Certain Hope]

Lise,

Was there ever a time when she offered you solid, helpful counseling? I ask because it sounds like she viewed you as a rival, almost from the beginning. Makes me wonder just exactly who (from her past) she was trying to make you into! And you simply refused to fit into her pre-formed mold. That's the origin of her silences, I think - any time when your words and actions didn't mesh with the role into which she wanted to cast you. Yikes. It's all quite familiar to me, at a prehistoric level. I feel that there were switches flipped within me by someone just like this, at a point when I didn't yet have the tools to resist.
I'm so glad that you were able to break away from her.

Love,
Carolyn

P.S.  yes, you were supposed to feel invisible unless you were reading her pre-scripted lines, in total conformity to the mirror she wanted to design you to be. Silence and avoidance are supposed to make all of the unpleasant realities disappear... but you wouldn't disappear, thank God!

[Gabben]

Hi Carolyn,

That was very helpful. I have never really thought about it in that way of her trying to fit me into her preform mold but now that makes perfect sense. Looking back it seemed that from the very beginning that I was supposed to fall into the "admiring follower role."

Another guess as to what the preform mold that I was to fit into for her would be her mother, perhaps??

Most of the people that followered her were cookie mold followers who seemed emotionally shallow and eager to please her. It did not take me long, a few months to feel uncomfortable with the dynamic of the group and to leave or pull away. There was only one girl of n-saints followers that I really liked and felt a connection with, looking back I see that she is also the most healthy and genuine of all of N saint's followers.

I think that N saint had a hard time negotiating my already strong sense of self as well as how much healing I had already come through by the time I was working with her. I also had a more traumatic childhood than most other of her followers which makes me wonder how that affected her?

It did seem odd to me that N saint seemed more readily to invite me to her house and to babysit than any other ministry or parish member. It made me feel more special, looking back I see that she played on that as well as played on my vulnerable weakness which was my need for approval and social acceptance.

Also, I know that she saw my need for approval as an N trait and not just my codependency issue. She seemed super annoyed with my needs and my trying to work out my "holes" so to speak. It was as if the splint of my N traits caused her too much to have to face her own heavy N traits and she was either trying to wipe it away or pick the splint out of me, perhaps?

I can't recall a single instance where anything that she said or that transpired between us had a lasting or profound positive effect. I cannot recall a season of genuine love ever coming from her. In hindsight I only see what I thought blindly was love and that was her initial flattery and charm. It is only in this reflection that has been coming to me lately that I am seeing all of this toxic stuff about her, it is amazing to me that a person can be such a shell of a human with no core.

Why does hindsight have perfect vision?


Thanks (((Carolyn)))
Gabben

[Gabben]

Makes me wonder just exactly who (from her past) she was trying to make you into!

Another thing is perhaps she was trying to work out her uncompleted Oedipal Complex where a child will view one of their parents as a rival when they are tying to negotiate their sexual desire and feelings towards sleeping with a parent?


Described in Interpretation of Dreams, the Oedipal Complex is a term invented by psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud who explained present day neuroses partially on the basis of wish fulfillment. The Oedipal Complex is based on Freud's observation that children often seem to have fallen in love with one parent and developed a hatred for the other. Freud believed this tendency exists in all children but was more marked in neurotics. Freud believed the Oedipus myth bears witness to the prevalence of this Oedipal Complex, both in that it was a popular topic for Greek tragedy and the fact that modern audiences still relate to the story of Oedipus (who murdered his father Laius and then married his mother Jocasta).


What do you think?

Gab

[Certain Hope]

Dear Lise,

I think that it was always about her trying to fit you into her program. There's nothing more invalidating than that, is there?
Even with a generally sweet-natured, un-aggressive person... if it's always all about her - - well, there's no mutuality or reciprocity on which to build a relationship!
Of course, in this situation, she was supposed to be the one charged with the responsibility of counseling and helping you and not using you to meet her needs.

With N, if you're allowed to be anything more than an admiring follower, then you must never, ever admit to weakness.
That was my experience with both my mother and with npd ex-husband. I think they allow one individual to be somewhat on a par with them - the one whom they need the most (often their own mother) -
and that select person may share the throne (to a point). Kinda like the golden child of a family. But in that scenario, the chosen one is not allowed to humble herself in any way or do any honest introspection
in an attempt to root out flaws. If you're flawed - then you are not suitable for the position of co-ruler. Yuck.

I think you've gotten into the meat of it with this:

Also, I know that she saw my need for approval as an N trait and not just my codependency issue. She seemed super annoyed with my needs and my trying to work out my "holes" so to speak. It was as if the splint of my N traits caused her too much to have to face her own heavy N traits and she was either trying to wipe it away or pick the splint out of me, perhaps?

We all have N traits. When we really get to be a threat to a pathological N is when we refuse to gloss those over and pretend like they're nothing.
Again, that's been my experience. N cannot tolerate your transparency because transparent human beings do not mirror the N's glory.

Hindsight is bittersweet, yes, but when you think about it - - it's something N's refuse to have.  I think you're doing very well... and I learn from every one of your posts... so thank you.

Love,
Carolyn

P.S.  I dunno about the whole Freudian thing... to me, the crux of the matter is plain old sinful human pride. Hugs

[Gabben]

Thank you (((Carolyn))) that was very helpful.

It amazes me how much subtle damage was done in my therapy with N saint. Very often the patient is unconsciously working out there own disowned parts and projecting onto the therapist; for a while I believed that was what I was doing that because of N saint's projection. But after looking deeply at myself I could not see times when I had hatred or dislike for her mostly I was always projecting goodness, my goodness onto her.

Also, I was so very trusting in her from the very beginning which was such a huge mistake.

My confusion mounted as her contempt of me grew stronger.

The ways in which an N can get into your head and mess things up can be so damaging. Basically I am having to clean up  the mess of three years of her influence in my life, still.

Thank you for your encouragement and support.

Peace and blessings to you.

Gab

[Certain Hope]

(((((Lise))))) I understand. I've always trusted people far too readily, with far too much of my own heart. So often, I've been desperate for a connection... and also certain that others had a better handle on what it takes to get by in this world... and that's a terrible combination, a set-up for being a target of all sorts of abuse.

What I see is -
You're an honest person and that makes you an instant threat to N's. One of the biggest female N's I've ever known was in ministry. She often talked about keeping her enemies close to her... and I never understood that, till now.
If she can keep them near and toss them a bone from time to time, then maybe she can minimize their threat to her mask... or else gather some dirt on them with which to entice their silence about her phoniness.

I do believe that you were projecting your own goodness onto N saint and putting the best construction on everything.
In fact, I believe that there's a child-like (not child-ish) quality which N absolutely despises and seeks to destroy at any cost. They hate it in themselves and so believe that anyone who bears traces of this quality needs to be brought down.
That's what I've seen so very often in the destroyers who've entered my own life.

Whenever we identify with others by virtue of our own good intentions, we run the very real risk of missing the realities of what they carry within them.
I tend to think - oh, surely she didn't mean it that way... or - I'll relate so deeply to how I'd feel in someone else's shoes that I can't see how they're really behaving, which is a completely different picture altogether.

Oh, and that contempt you sensed from her is also so familiar to me. I think that she viewed you not only as a threat, but also as a thief, because every evidence of goodness in you robbed her of glory.
Vampires demand every last drop of your blood, sweat, and tears... and then you're supposed to thank them for allowing you the privilege of donating to their cause.
Blows my mind, still.

Yes, N gets into your head... but the Spirit drives out that crud just as the body expels a foreign object like a sliver. It doesn't belong. There's no room in you for her influence, as long as you continue to fill yourself with all things right and pure.
Hang up that No Vacancy sign...

Love,
Carolyn

[gratitude28]

Lise,
I know the "silence" trick. You say you are good at something and they stare quietly. That means, of course, that they do not think so, or do not approve, and creates a very ugly feeling inside.
It sounds like your therapist was a master at twisting you up inside.
I am so sorry you had to go through this. As you said, perhaps it was what you needed to see your whole big picture.
((((((((((((((Lise)))))))))))))))
Love, Beth