The Rank-Link Imbalance--NY Times column

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi everybody,

Here's an interesting column about a socially acceptable form of narcissism in today's N.Y. Times by David Brooks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/opinion/14brooks.html?ex=1206158400&en=8cc5b4e79e53997b&ei=5070&emc=eta1

Best,

Richard

(p.s.  Personally, I would have titled it:  "Why I chose to leave an Ivy League Medical Institution after seven years to work in my moldy basement.")

[Certain Hope]

Wow... thank you, Dr. Grossman.

For some unknown reason, I woke up this morning thinking of my brother... and there he is, in black and white, right down to the photos of himself lining the stairway. Wish I could email the link to him anonymously. hmm... 

Thanks again!

Carolyn

P.S.  I lreally ove this part:  "Maybe they’d be O.K. if somewhere along the way they’d had true friends, defined as a group of people who share a mutual inability to take each other seriously. Maybe they’d be prepared for what is about to happen if they’d subordinated their quest for immortality to the joys of domestic ridicule."

[Leah]

Thank you, Dr Grossman

PDF'd a copy for retention!

Explains, why, all of a sudden, my exH wishes he could rewind the years!  (according to what I have been told, by his foo).

Personally,

highlights the how and why, I never fitted into the scheme of things, in the 'blue chip organisations' during my career, as I did not dance to the CEO's / directorate's tune, and furthermore, I remain, allergic to shallowness and falseness, generally.

Leah

[gratitude28]

On a lesser level, Dr. Grossman, isn't this like the high school football star????? He never gets over the glory days... This is just a higher-education version of the same story.
I guess it boils down to having some spiritual basis... at least that is what I have come to believe. Also, I think honesty is a key to living a good life. If you are being honest to yourself and others, you would not hide and go to a prostitute, or have an affair.
Interesting article for sure!!!!!!!
It seems that Narcissism has been around forever and will always be as long as it pays off to be a bully. I am not sure there is any way to counterract that.
Love, Beth

[Leah]

Very good article...Thanks!  ... several times on this board people including myself have discussed the similarity between Asperger's Syndrome and Narcissism.  I've thought that in most cases described, the entitled behaviour is culturally driven not neurologically.  I think that we are less willing to tolerate it anymore and the unwillingness is drawing more attention to the selfishness and the ripple affect it has on families and institutions.  I also think I am sorry for those who believed in what they were told; that they were special and entitled.  It's hard to grow old trying to perpetuate the dream while the reality says otherwise. 

I have read much, recently, of the ME Generation, and how Narcissism is culturally driven.

Leah

[mudpuppy]

tt,

Did you really leave an Ivy League Medical Institution after seven years to work in your moldy basement?
Did the cruel cosmic joke get played on you?

I think the joke (and I'm not too sure it's cruel) is on those who stay and believe the siren song that power makes one different from other men.

mud

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi tt,

"Did you really leave an Ivy League Medical Institution after seven years to work in your moldy basement?" 

I did, about 22 years ago.  (It's a basement office--in the summertime it gets a little musty.  Sometimes when I would come up from work, my wife would say:  "You smell like mold."  And my then very young daughter would say:  "I like the smell of mold--it smells like Dad."

"Did the cruel cosmic joke get played on you?"

I'm not sure what you mean, but maybe I can answer.  When I got to the "Institution" at 23 years of age, I was appropriately naive.  I thought I was going to a place of excellence and brilliant minds.  Instead I found many people who were bright, but well described by the NY Times column.  Ultimately, power and politics trumped all.  It was not an atmosphere I felt comfortable in, so I chose to leave.  I suppose in the end (however difficult it made my career), I preferred "I like the smell of mold--it smells like Dad" to an Ivy League Medical appointment.   

Best,

Richard     

[Certain Hope]

Hi Dr. Grossman,

You clearly dodged the cruel cosmic joke by opting out early.

I did, about 22 years ago.  (It's a basement office--in the summertime it gets a little musty.  Sometimes when I would come up from work, my wife would say:  "You smell like mold."  And my then very young daughter would say:  "I like the smell of mold--it smells like Dad."

Now, how cool is that!  I'm happy for you and Hilde and your Wookah girl!

tt

Me, too...  made me grin big time. There's no better pay-off for taking the road less traveled.

Dr.G, I'm forwarding this article and your own observations to my 17 year-old potentially-ivy-league lass, who still likes to feed her ducks while barefoot in her jammies. I think she'll make the better choice, as well.

Thanks!!

Carolyn

[mudpuppy]

I can't help wonder though,  how many get caught in the middle age rat race and can't let go even when they know the game is rigged and the mice are winning, only because they have the spouse, the 2.5 kids, the mortgage.  Kind of a sad thought.    

  David Brooks' article was referring obliquely to Gov Spitzer and his ilk. They don't seem to give a rat's race arse for their spouse, kids or anything else outside of their own craniums.
  Sad? In a way. Tragic? No. There's nothing heroic in them, just small people trying to look large until life tries to teach them a lesson in humility most seem incapable of learning. Even in disgrace all things are measured by it's effect on them.

mud

[mudpuppy]

TT,

But for a guy like Spitzer who gets caught, do you think that the term self-sabatoging could apply?   And that deep down inside, there was a sick soul who wanted to out himself?

 In a word, no.
 When a guy gets caught because he's trying to secretly arrange his bank accounts to hide his illegal transactions it seems highly unlikely he's just a poor tortured soul looking for a little redemption to be forced upon himself.
 I think what looks to us like rash behavior amounting to self sabotage is usually just the hubris of having gotten away with it before for so long and the vague idea in the back of their minds that if they do get caught they'll just brazen it out.

mud

[SilverLining]

An interesting article.  IMO he's describing the extreme form of a more general outcome of our social structure.  Rank- link imbalanced people are fine candidates for life in corporations or any bureaucratic system.  It's certainly the way my upbringing pointed me, until I rebelled at age 39.  Now I'm more balanced- I'm as bad at rank as I have been at link...    

[teartracks]

Hi Mud,
 
I agree with you.
 
Theodore Roosevelt said "To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society."
 
I think TR's statement is true.   
 
I believe that a huge part of our present moral dilemma and the swift cultural shift that is taking place in our society is a direct result of parents shipping their children off to school expecting the education system/government to teach their children ethics, morality, and virtue.  I think that the average person now has not heard, do unto others as you would have them done unto you.  And I expect that for some who have heard the Golden Rule, it is viewed as antiquated. 

tt

[mudpuppy]

tt,

I believe that a huge part of our present moral dilemma and the swift cultural shift that is taking place in our society is a direct result of parents shipping their children off to school expecting the education system/government to teach their children ethics, morality, and virtue.

I think you're half right. Half the parents expect the schools to teach their children right from wrong, but the other half don't even think there is a right and wrong.

mud

[gratitude28]

And even worse, I think their are parents who WANT their kids to do wrong - as long as it gets them ahead.

When I taught in Italy, I used to talk some about ethics. Then one of the American teachers said to me - if a child has ethics here, he will get lost. Unfortunately, sadly, it was true. To get ahead in Italy, you have to be willing to stomp on another person, lie, cheat and steal. When I taught adults there, the head of the school said, "By the way, all the students cheat - just to let you know up front." Those who sit back and 'do the right thing' get trampled on by the crowd.

[teartracks]

Hi Mud,

Sadly, I have to agree with you.  So where do we go from here as a society?  Anarchy?

tt

Beth,

I would say, are you serious? except I know you are.  Did you get any insights as to how this frame of mind took hold in Italian society?

Thanks,

tt