Avoidance

[Onyx]

I wouldn't say that I'm shy or retiring type of guy. I have however noticed a distinct change in the manner in which I conduct my relationship(s) with my girl friend.

I easily become overwhelmed by her needyness. As time has gone on, I have found her insecurity very demanding and at times, to much! So much so, a very obvious cycle has developed between us. She becomes clingy over an issue; I start to withdraw. She becomes more and more intense; I withdraw further! By this time she's now ranting and raving over nothing and I'm legging it through the door.

It really will have started over a very very innocent issue....nothing serious. In ends with me being very happily away from her (we don't live together god forbid), with her eventually threatening suicide!

She had a very bad childhood and was abused sexually by a step father. She was also in and out of the care system and was generally treated badly. This I know and am sympathetic too.......to a point! But it's like falling into a spiders web.........that I never had any intention of falling into in the first place!

Now I'm trying to figure a way out of the mess I've gotten myself into. I feel compassion toward her, but I'm not prepared to live like this any longer. I've got her to see her doctor who has placed her on anti-depressants and she is also receiving therapy. But it's not working!

It's now got to the stage were I can't really be arsed anymore. I beginning to think that turning gay has its advantages, I don't have to deal with the opposite sex. I know I'm bound to receive hate mail for my views. But in today's day and age, relationships aren't what they used to be! The feminist movement had its point, but then turned things upside down!

I want to keep things light and above all, mutual. Things that we both enjoy doing together and not something that we don't. I enjoy our sex lives, so does she.....it's a mutual thing. We enjoy dining out, staying away together, shopping.....etc. I made it very clear from the beginning when we met, I wasn't looking for a 'live-in' 24/7 style relationship. She had just come out of a long term thing too and was delighted about the thought of a relationship that was light and easy.....nothing heavy.

But she soon found she could talk to me and that I'd listen about her past. Something that she'd been unable to do with her previous boy friends but could now do with me. Now I find that she is co-dependent on me and I'm having big problems shaking her off! Last time she phoned  and screamed that she was 'popping pills', I told her to get on with it and leave me alone. I know I shouldn't, but this was one of many occassions and I just got fed up with it all! Later I phoned to see if she was OK and was told that she'd taken 8 and then fallen asleep!

So now I'm trying to be 'friends'. I've cut back seeing to once or twice a week and only then if she has spent time going out with her friends or family. I'm trying to loosen her grip of me slowly.

I know I'm at fault here kind of. I know that I'm being non committed. I now know that she was a time bomb ready to explode and that I inadvertantly hit the trigger. But as I've already said, we men have to approach women these days at arms length. We cannot go into things blindly as we used to and hope for the best! I know you all may think this controlling, but only in so far as I'm being honest and controlling my own life. The system has swayed far too much in favour of women and more importantly, the courts.

I learned over a number of previous relationships to treat women with care. Not only in a relationship, but after when it's all over. I even had a vasectomy 4 years ago of which I am very open about with women. Yes I'm wealthy and yes I sound deliberate, but I've experienced first hand on more than one occassion how wise it is to be careful. I respect women and the damage a relationship can cause.

Next time round, I want to be a women

[Anonymous]

Onyx,

Please don't assume that all women have a borderline personality disorder. It simply isn't the case.

Big red flag that you may want to notice next time: She was sexually abused as a child; in and out of foster care; abused.  People with this background are very likely to be unstable. Your "lighthearted" relationship was doomed to failure, even if she claimed it was what she wanted. She can't be lighthearted with her background. And apparently neither can you, as you were willing to listen to her at length! You sent her a mixed message that this was far more than casual--that you'd provide emotional intimacy.

The way to end a relationship with a borderline is cold turkey. You can't do the "slow, let's be friends" thing. It won't work. You have to set limits and stick to them absolutely. The one thing borderlines understand is boundaries that are totally implacable. If you shift them, she will see you as capitulating and re-starting the relationship. You'd have to do a mutual "no contact" with her and leave her completely.

It's not up to you whether or not she commits suicide. Borderlines make many suicide threats. And yes, sometimes they carry it out. But it's not anyone's fault. You'll be her prisoner forever if you take on the role of a suicide-preventer.

And you may want to bone up on BPD and how to spot and avoid these women in future.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Onyx and Bunny,

Yes, I would like to join Bunny in pointing out and asking you not to generalize about all women based on this relationship.  Your post seems to contain a few broad assertions that you might want to investigate and to help you learn about yourself, what you are looking for, and your expectations in a relationship.  Bunny hit the nail right on the head.

Bunny, I just want to thank you for writing what you did about borderlines and boundaries.  Very timely for me as well.  I have been feeling like my therapist -might- encourage me to reconcile with NSIL because that would mean she has "less power" and indicate that I was handling my own fears better.  I may have created this thought in my own mind, but in talking about NSIL with her, I feel like she thinks I need to know that it is her trauma that causes her to act this way and that that is understandable (I already know this).  I agree, but my response is to decrease my obsession with wondering what was wrong with ME and to let it go, knowing that a scorpion is always a scorpion.  I do not feel a need to "test" this.  I may be misreading T, she may be just indicating a need to decrease an Ns power in my own mind.  I should clarify with her.  But your post is very reassuring.

I just saw her today and waved as I passed in my car.  Then I wondered if she was going to take that as an invitation to just drop by anytime like nothing happened...

Apologies to Onyx for hijacking the thread--just wanted to respond to the boundary thing.  Seeker

[Barbie]

Onyx, hmmm, cute name.  My grandkids have a male parakeet named Onyx and a female named Pearl.  Pearl is mean and won't let Onyx eat.  She's also pulled out his tale feathers so for awhile there, he was just a little round bird.

You were given some really good advice there and I really hope you take it.  In other words, you have to go cold turkey and break things off with this lady before things get worse than they are now.

I was a very emotionally needy person when I was a young lady and I scared a boyfriend off who couldn't deal with me.  I'm 54 now, a very young looking 54, I might add, LOL, and looking back at my life, this former beau was every bit right in dropping me like a hot potato.  The guy loved me very much but I was so emotionally needy that I would not, could not, let him have his own life.

The years have taught me to look at myself in a very truthful way and as a result, I've raised a wonderful daughter and also a wonderful son with an alcohol problem.  I sometimes have guilt feelings about that because his sister was born just two days after he turned 1.  I feel like maybe I didn't mother him enough or something.  I've also learned to not blame myself for that but I do have the occasional guilty feelings.  Only human after all.

I think if I was dating a guy that acted the way your girlfriend is acting, I would be out of the situation in a heartbeat.  I've put up with an alcoholic husband but did it because he always stayed away during his binges and never laid a hand on me.  Of course, if he had, I would have left him immediately because the thought of any kind of violence scares me.

I would advise you to just end the relationship now because it will only get harder as time goes on.

[Dawning]

Hi Onyx,

we men have to approach women these days at arms length. We cannot go into things blindly as we used to and hope for the best! I know you all may think this controlling, but only in so far as I'm being honest and controlling my own life.

What you said here is great. I can really relate.  Controlling your own life and being honest are healthy as far as I can tell.   I wanted to be saved and rescued *and* I wanted to save and rescue others unconsciously thinking that I could heal the deeper wound.   I have been on both sides of the fence and see too how it  *triggered* things.  In my case, things that were unresolved in myself; feelings that I had not taken responsibility for or avoided in various ways.  

I agree with you....we - men and women - cannot go into things blindly and expect to one day hit the big jackpot.  

For me - taking off the blinders is pretty traumatic too but I have decided not to give in by running away from what I feel.

Best of luck to you.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to thank Bunny and you all for some very positive information. I'd also like to add a few important things that I've drawn conclusions on.

This girl finds it almost impossible to control her emotional outburst. So much so, it very quickly moves past the stage of tears and into ranting and raging! It's almost as if i'm watching an engine generator splutter slowly into action and then immediately run smoothly (ranting and raging). There is a near total inability to reason or rationalise. The slightest remark is turned twisted and blown into something it's not! Her behaviour is pretty much immune to the presence of passers-by and friends alike. She is near incapable of controlling or moderating herself until she's peaked. Then she slowly simpers to herself whilst I remain near silent.

Looking back and after an event, her view is that I should cuddle and kiss her. Whilst I fully appreciate this, I respond by telling her that it's near damned impossible to embrace 'The Exorcist', let alone have feelings of love for her. It's a circle; a circle that goes nowhere! I can rationalise with her after the event has passed and they can be as much as two or three times a day. She is sympathetic and very sorry, but only I think because she fears me leaving her. It's the ultimate relationship game of 'come here, go away!'

So I dis-engage and walk away. I'm overwhelmed and in need of some RnR. She sees this as abandoning her, so she becomes even more intense to the point of sucide threats! Now I really mean this. She phones me up ranting and raving and I can hear her popping the foil of her pills in the background. I've got three choices: text or phone her 20 year old daughter, inform her and ask her to keep and eye on her mother, phone the cops if I can't achieve that, do nothing or go round! If I go round, I know that I'm rewarding her bad behaviour. But what if I do nothing and........! This is the conundrum, my conundrum.

I can also say that she is a smart young lady (38). She's very clever at not committing to text her threats, always by voice only. She is also blind to her selfishness; not only in this, but many other things. She moans constantly about her childred, all of which are over sixteen. On the 21st birthday of her eldest boy, she was whiping the floor with him over minor issues. So much so that she retired to her bedroom  around midday and failed to do anything for him on this day. She has a very stilted way of not only looking at things, but in remembering them! Her children are "Useless lazy bast..ds" on the one hand, but if I agree with her, then my children are much better than hers and I'm "talking down to her". It really is an experience to behold........classic!

I know that I've made a rode for my own back, I know that I'm partly to blame for this. I'm stuck between a 'rock and a hard place' that I must walk away from. I've tried to 'wean' her off.......but she's very determined. I've broken off the relationship even recently.......but then she actually stalks me! I know women suffer from this, but I hadn't really thought that men did too! This really is becoming a 'Play Misty' and 'Fatal Attraction' type situation rolled into one!

So I do know the answer, it's just the consequences of it. I walk finally, she gets over it. I walk finally and in desperation, she accidently kills herself! I've always been crap at poker!!!!

[Dawning]

Guest above:

Is that you, Onyx?

In reply to the above post:

This woman's behaviour sounds a lot like my N mother's.  

I feel for you.

She's very clever at not committing to text her threats, always by voice only. She is also blind to her selfishness; not only in this, but many other things. She moans constantly about her childred, all of which are over sixteen. On the 21st birthday of her eldest boy, she was whiping the floor with him over minor issues. So much so that she retired to her bedroom around midday and failed to do anything for him on this day.

I feel for him too.

This woman needs attention.  And she will go to great lengths to get it because she feels she has to.  She is desperate.  She needs help.   But these N's are not stupid.  If she doesn't get it from you, she'll get her supply elsewhere.  I hope her son and other children make it through her NPD and don't have too much trouble themselves though I believe they will on some level as you still do in dealing with her NPD.  

I wonder how close you are to her children.  They are probably just as hurt and perplexed and utterly confused as you are.  

You are not responsible for her feelings.  It sounds as though you've done your best.  If she can't see that, it is her problem.  At some point, she has to take responsibility for her actions.

[Anonymous]

Onyx:

People with this disorder classically feel abandoned and threaten/attempt suicide. That's how it is and it's got nothing to do with you. You will get nowhere trying to prevent her suicide attempts. In fact, you're enabling her by giving her attention and showing how anxious you are. This is exactly how she keeps you in her life. She isn't doing this out of malice, it's how the disorder works. Neither you nor she is going to end the disorder. You can only save yourself by ending this and let her deal with it professionally.

BPDs can absolutely become stalkers. Your job is to make sure she understands that you are in a "no contact" that is non-negotiable. Her suicide threats will get this response: you will call the police or her psychiatrist and that's it. If you veer from this boundary AT ALL, she will see you as capitulating 100% and back in a relationship. Of course she will try to get you to break the no-contact. That goes without saying. You have to stick to it.

You can get excellent info on borderlines at www.bpdresources.com

bunny

[Anonymous]

I went to the bpd resources website and found this. It seems made for you, Onyx. It's an Australian site:

http://www.mjtacc.com/frelationship.shtml

[Anonymous]

That was me, bunny, above.

[Anonymous]

Hi all, Onyx here

Bunny you're a bloody marvel!! I've had a good read of both of the sites you pointed me to and......wow! Thanks very much, great reading. Now I'm going to be cheeky and ask of you this: Do you think I should point her in the same direction?

I don't intend to explain or whatever, just send her the URL addresses and suggest that they might be of interest or something. What do you think?

Onyx

......and for those amongst us who have tried to understand how I arrived at this name, no it's not because it's a precious stone. Onyx is the name of  the last submarine I was on when in the Royal Navy. It still exists as a floating museum piece in Birkenhead, Merseyside, (Liverpool) UK.

[Barbie]

Bunny, thank you so much for that article.  I've been reading and taking breaks.  A lot of it applies to my life and what is happening in my life today.

My family has gone to the dam to jetski today and my SO is at work so I'm sitting here just enjoying myself reading and doing my housework a little at a time.  It's so nice to be alone every now and then.

I just had to write and thank you.

Barb

[Anonymous]

Onyx,
I'm really happy that you were able to read the sites and got some information.    In answer to your q, I don't think you should point her in this direction. It wouldn't help and would only make things worse. On another note, I'm very impressed that you served your country in a submarine. Amazing!

Barbie,
I'm so glad you liked the article/site!  


bunny