Question for Dr. G

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Richard.
I sense you're right. I've got a bad memory of him raging drunkenly, after about 3 years of trust.

Siggh. But I'm a big girl. I won't let it mess me up too much.
Amazing what a different person he became.

Reminds me of my wedding night, when Mr. Hyde came out.

A little scary as in inflaming trust issues, for me, generally. But I won't let it.
(I hope.)

Ann, thanks to you too Ann...I don't get HBO but I'm sure it'll turn up on DVD. Thanks for the recommendation.

Izz, I guess he saw me without boundaries inasmuch as he was wandering around in my lizard brain (hypnosis). Ah well. He helped me tremendously and I am grateful. I am sorry he's so chaotic in his personal life and once my bruised heart heals, I will stay with that. I don't know how he can ever allow ANY woman close enough to him for a happy twosome. But I'd rather know what I know now, rather than experience something like what I did in marriage (a nightmare of a honeymoon). It's moot.

I'll sure never be interested in messing with THAT particular boundary again, that's for sure.

Amber, glad you're able to do T'ai Chi safely with your T. Makes sense, as you're in a safe nonverbal group activity. But in hindsight, I don't think she should put the responsibility on you to decide it's okay. (New knowledge.) What polite grateful client would ever say, oh No, I don't want you to join my class. And BTW...imo, revisiting square one is sometimes just an opportunity to plant your foot and shove off again...((((Amber)))) don't be too disheartened.

Axa, I feel sheer gratitude for your post. It hit me like a real hug from a real friend. Thank you. I'm going fishing.

love,
Hops

[BonesMS]

Hi Richard,
Are dual relationships years post-therapy always, always a terrible idea?

Sigh. I have had a few dates with my ex-therapist and I've felt calm, centered,
neither worshipful nor fearful but very ready to love.

He basically bolted down the street screaming about lawsuits.

(I exaggerate, but he oozed fear.)

Just wondered if you think the roles must always be that rigid.
(I've read volumes on dual relationships and the protection of the integrity
of the field and transference and countertransference and I still think it's maybe
sensible most of the time but it's also humorless and unimaginative and deflating.)

What do you think?

thanks,
Hops

One of the things I've learned in school, and it was drilled into us, is the concept of:  "Once a client, always a client".  This is good protection from a LOT of headaches!

Bones

[Gabben]

Hi Hops,

I had a crush on my psychiatrist when I first started working with him. Wanting to heal, I did some research eventually recognizing the attraction was telling a story:

Under my attraction to my therapist was an acting out of a young early trauma in my infancy when my mom abandoned me for a short period at nine months. My mom's love was toxic, the rescuer's love, a sweet neighbor, was pure and wonderful she treated me with that sweet unconditional acceptance, yet I was left conflicted and guilty. Does that not sound like a crossing of the boundaries therapeutic dynamic?

[towrite]

Hops - the last time my NP's threw me in the looney bin, I began dating and having an intimate rel'ship with my therapist, who was an intern at the time. I never realized the damage - actual and potential - til MUCH later. I have to say it wasn't worth it.

[axa]

Hi Izzy (apologies Hops but have not "seen" Izzy for an age - hope all is well with you)

I am of the school "once a client always a client"

xxx

axa

[Leah]

"once a client always a client"

That is my perception and understanding.

Leah x

[Hopalong]

Hoo boy.
Do I feel WARNED.

I'm going to listen to and trust you guys' judgment.

Especially since I got a sweet email from him today telling me I had touched him, and he finds me beautiful.

Yikers.

I think we've had a forgiving farewell now, and I need to leave it at that.

BOY am I vulnerable to longings right now. It might be spring, or a rising feisty dammit sense that I want someone to LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time to hit the match.com. Yuggh.

love
Hops

[Ami]

WOW Hops,
  He seems very pulled in two directions(LOL)                     Ami

[Hopalong]

Yes, he is.
Conflicted, and I understand why.

He's a dear good human being with feet of clay.
That first, therapist next. And lonely man.

I'm okay and hope he will be.

love
Hops

[ann3]

Hi Hops,

Sounds like a Red Flag.  IMO, let this thing die.  Hope you protect your own heart & head.

ann

[Hopalong]

Well said, Ann. And I will.
Let this thing die.

thank you.
Hops

[Hopalong]

Uh oh.


I had written him a couple emails after the evening, telling him I didn't think he saw my good intent. Then told him what I had been dreaming about, told him they were fantasies of happiness, but I'd enjoyed them (things like sharing routines, goofy pets, giving him my father's study, loving his kids and grandkids...). I really let it rip. I think partly it was a refusal to allow his rage and paranoia about me to be the last word.

But now I think it was a mistake, because he's written back. His first response was moving. He said my response to his curt email and "rude behavior" had kept him awake. That I had touched him.

Tonight I got another message...and he's saying, you want to make me happy? Wow. Etc... how do you do that?

So I wrote a long thing back about how I'd worked to find my own happiness, just the various ways I'd moved from long anguish to depression and finally to self-love and the release of shame. I advised him, basically, to beam compassion onto the little boy within him, absorb the child's pain, let it go through him, and then they'd both be healed.

But what's troubling me now is I feel that after expressing all that, I was ready to let it go. And he's popped back. And after his behavior that night, as much as I HAD fantasized, I was ready to let it go. Sounds odd, but I think I showed him too much tenderness. Because now he's responding, and I'm no longer feeling I could take him on.

What do I do now? I don't want to hurt him.

Hops

[lighter]

Uh oh.


What do I do now? I don't want to hurt him.

Hops

You keep your distance and continue giving your attention and nurturing......

to yourself.

No open ended e mails.  You can write back.... "So glad you're having a better day/OK day/insightful moment. Best, Hops" without feeling guilt. 

Release him with love and keep your distance.

You sure have had a busy past month, Hops. 

I hope the brother situation resolves (soon also.)  I have to believe it will.

  You're a kind nurturing person who deserves serenity.  A relationship with this man (ex T.....) may well have been another path to more self sacrafice on your part.  There are healers and hurters in this world.  You're one of the healers learning how to choose recipricol relationships.  Why is this so difficult and slippery to identify and figure out?

I don't understand this but I've spent time thinking about how these patterns tend to repeat.... wondering why some people seem to experience more than their fair share troubled relationships, pain and chaos..... craziness that makes absolutely no sense and never will.

What part is the relationship?  The other person?  You?  Do we create this ourselves or does it happen to us bc we're driven to overcome and heal impossibly broken people?  Are we aware of it on some level or do we have absolutely no control? 

Is it simply a matter of luck and not being preyed on by someone unable identify their own behavior as negative or destructive?

I need to believe you can figure this out and find worthy relationships for yourself. 

It happens for other people. 

Why NOT you?

We're back to.....



Boundaries....

 healthy and strong.

 Yes?

[towrite]

Hops - I think the betrayal of crossing boundaries is the worst of this scenario. All the vulnerability is from the one who was/is a patient ... the "therapist", if he's any good, has not let down any personal barriers. If he has done so during treatment, right then the betrayal begins and the line has been crossed. This may be a stupid question, but have your ever read Fitzgerald's story about the psychiatrist who married his patient? It was very reflective of Fitzgerald's own marriage and the tragedy of it is a road map for those who follow this path.

I wrote a book about this topic - well, any therapy abuse. Crossing the role boundaries is one of the biggies.

Stay strong, girl.

[Hopalong]

Thank you, Lighter.
No open-ended emails. That's it.
Thank you.
I can still be compassionate while gently distancing.

And, (((((((((((((((((((((Lighter))))))))))))))))))))))). Welcome back.

ToWrite, if you're comfortable sharing more about your book...do PM me. (No worries at all if not.)
As to his breaking the boundaries, I do recall in therapy him saying, "Well, I probably shouldn't say this, but your situation reminds me of how I felt with my second wife...it was, I'm doing all the loving in this relationship!" So perhaps he did first cross a boundary then. He seldom made a similar reference, though. To me, I was delighted to know a little about him, it made me trust him more. And I don't think he ever had malicious intent. He's just a human being. Maybe he was feeling attracted to me and that messed with his judgment.

Otherwise, I'd say at the end of my therapy I practically DRAGGED him across the boundary, by telling him I would like to see him socially, asking him what the rules were, and telling him more than once that I was serious and would like it very much if he'd call me after the proper interval. And if both he and I were free, we could start in friendship. All he said at the time was finally a slightly embarrassed, "Maybe we could make a go of it!"

But he was never seductive or predatory in any way during therapy. Other than those mild slips during almost 3 years, I think he was always professional, decent, and honorable.

So I am responsible, too. I'm close to his age, I've been around the block, and I should have realized it was my own boundary-bashing that helped create the situation. Vulnerable as a client or not, I'm an adult, and I own my part.

Thanks for the wise counsel. In honesty, after seeing how much anger and bitterness he has toward women when we had dinner, and on top of that the notion that he's likely alcoholic...I would not be capable of entering a romantic relationship with him now anyway.

Hope it will taper off by email, and if he asks for a meeting, I'll say only if we have a mutual understanding that it's only as friends.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks all so very much for your insight and guidance. This would be the last thing I need right now, to derail my life in a draining and unhealthy relationship.

love,
Hops