From someone old enough to know and know better?

[Izzy_*now*]

Thank you lupine,

You are right. We are still living our lives. Is yours the same or different now?

I used my weiner tweezers for the first time since she left home at 19. [I had chicken drumstciks, not the first time, but used the tweezers.]  Before that there were always birthay partes, with hot dogs and hamburgers and my special cake. I have a butter icing that is to die for and have not made a cake or the icing since her 17th birthday.

On Apr 29th, one day after my birthday and 2 weeks before her 15th birthday, her father completed suicide. Such a blow to us, but it is over now. We know where his headstone is. The pain doesn't last forever, and 2 days later I was doing the laundry, as life goes on, and I cried.

We must all be prepared for changes when the children reach a certain point, when they no longer want what we thought was good for them. They make their own choices and we live with them.

It was so difficult when she met the N--even though I didn't know about Ns.

Yes we are surviving, and Yes, if the elders did what we are doing? well that is just an 'if only' ....a fairy tal;e dream.

Life is not fair and Life is tough! Anyone who thinks  everything is handed on a silver platter is mistaken, and we can only work with ourselves--our own experiences, thoughts and resulte, good or bad.


All the best
Izzy

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Deb,

My DVD movie is just over, with a few Pauses so I could post my bag head pic, put things away and brush my teeth, etc, as now I will be off to bed. 11:53 my time, to read a book called 'Predator'--really weird!

Don't become hysterical. I am not leaving and not to toot my own horn, but sometimes I think I can be the voice of reason from the older crowd to the middle-aged. Since that is my daughter's status now, she is no longer the teen who thinks she knows it all and I am now the mother who has learned that I never knew it all, with her.

Your daughter was 2 with a broken leg? or was that a typo, and you in high heels sliding across the floor------hmm!!!!! did your dress stay down over your knees?

Really it is only we older people who have lived longer, who have the stories to tell, and being they are old, we can add spice to them, yet mine are all true---I just am able to laugh at myself.

With age, I found that I can do silly things like the bag on my head in the rain, and get away with it. It helps me to deal with the other parts of life, if I can think about these and laugh.

Then I think of the stupid things I went through and hoped to save my daughter from such things.

I was with a gang at a dance and we were all going to a frat house afterward. What I didn't know was it was all about sex. What I didn't know was that these girls I had known for awhile were into this. I refused and I could see I was in deep trouble  ( a lot of whispering going on) and the next thing I knew I was physically 'picked up, carried and set down on the front verandah' out of the frat house and walked home, breaking a high heel, but while I was on the verandah awaiting a cab that never came, a guy came out and consoled me (He was to have called the cab.) I was not up to that and left. Later on in time we met at the dance hall again and he was as gentlemanly as could be and ended up driving me home. He almost raped me in his car. He just ended up with messy trousers as I escaped. Men can be the scum of the earth!

I found it too difficult to tell my daughter EVERYTHING, but I hoped I got my message across.

ah! Yes Life is still the same if not worse than when I was in my late teens early twenties I tell my stories in bits and pieces but could never assemble all I have confessed here, to make a book. I would start old, be born, be 20, be 55, be 30 Nope I have no authoriing skills.

I too hope that CB and Write come back, as well as changing and I see Certain Hope has been missing. tt as well

Take good care and I am glad I kept the bag picture for your enjoyment.

Love
Izzy


pretty old-fashioned, eh?

not even a microwave oven

[lighter]

Certain Hope is still with us and CB checks in.... though not on the board.

Change is MIA again...... haven't seen Write around lateley: (

Save your energy for yourself and those who can benefit from your experience and honesty.

You and I..... part of our journey is learning to detach at the right time.  Free ourselves emotionally.

We live in a world where people don't want the truth, esp some of the truths we've seen.... truths that have marked us.

They don't want to know..... it's easier to attack the messenger than take a look at the message, IMO.

Esp if the messsage is attached to a nightmare.


I  still have a desire..... a NEED to talk about these things so people may understand and I'm working on it.

So far...... people who will not hera the truth.....


cannot hear the truth, no matter how we say something.

Blame the messenger, the tone in our voices, the way we carry ourselves, the amount of money we can make....


blame our parenting but they won't accept that message.....


bc



bc.....


oh dear.

Another puzzle: /

[lighter]

I'm 45, Izz.... but both my best friends are feisty 75+ year old women.

One has her doctorate in teaching and never married.

The other raised 3 boys. 

I've enjoyed a wealthy of wisdom from them both.

And you as well.

Lighter

[finding peace]

Dear Iz,

It doesn’t hurt it helps.  You give me hope (cautionary hope with my heart guarded) that it is never too late (for my mother).

She is approaching 70, and that puts me, physically, in my early 40’s (although mentally I vary between 2 and 80, and through the wise people of this board, I am learning that that is ok too).

As far as how does one know when one is dysfunctional – I don’t know the answer to that.  It is a very good question.  What lights the spark in some to question and work to improving life and others not?  Is it because you hit rock bottom and something cries out inside that there must be a better way? Is it because you observe others around you and decide to question the things about yourself you just took for granted?  Don’t know, but you’ve given me a great question to think about.

As far as my mother, I think she just doesn’t see (our) dysfunction (and I say our, because it isn’t just her it is me too).  As a child it was her – I didn’t have an option.  But as an adult, it has now become “our” relationship and there are 2 sides to every coin.  In any case, with her, I think it is generational – she is a very, very rigid controlling woman – there is no flexibility.  She lives by an internal set of rules that cannot be bent, for anything.  Hard to put into words, but her rule system is so convoluted and unbreakable, that if she opened her eyes to a different way of doing something or possibly a different belief, I think her whole house of cards might come crashing down.  And therefore she can’t.

It is funny though – universal synchronisity – I just received an e-mail from her, and it has a much different tone to it than usual.  Yesterday I wrote "never."  Today I wonder.  I am a bit in a dilemma on what to do.  Past history tells me it is hopeless – it is just another ploy.  In the past it wasn’t because she cared about our relationship – she cared about how our relationship was perceived.

I went NC about 1.5 years ago.  I know you are an advocate of NC, and for me it was very true, I had to get out of her web to really see it.  But, this recent e-mail has me wondering if I shouldn’t try and give it another chance – with eyes wide open and heart guarded.  NC is a pretty strong way to say to a person I will tolerate no more?  Maybe she can learn, maybe we can try again and learn a better way together.

I don’t know – I am a different person than I was 1.5 years ago.  My one fear is that I am still too fragile in the new me and will get sucked back in. 

I have a lot of thinking to do.

Thanks for asking Iz,
Peace

[debkor]

Hey Iz,

Yep you heard me right. My D was 2 when her leg was broken.  I was in the hospital having my son and G-ma N side was watching my D with my nephew who was 10.  I lived in a two family house where the landlord put plastic on the stairs (stapled down) to keep them clean. My MIL decided she needed some beer and out the door they went. (didn't know there was drinking and never told that till my little nephew revealed it) My nephew was carrying my D down the stairs and the plastic pulled out and down they went.  My D's leg got caught in the banister and it broke. 

They never told me she hurt her leg that night.  My neighbor called me in the hospital and told me my D was crying all night long.
I left the hospital and took my D to one and this was the result.  G-ma was never alone with my D again.

My FIL was (now I know) and N and of the worst kind and that is why my exh was an N or psychopath if not worse.  My MIL suffered terribly (within herself) I know this now but dealt with it through drinking.  Sneaky drinking.  She was no N but suffered in pain quietly.  She did the best she could though but was never rewarded for her efforts in trying to make up or make good later on in life to her children.  She remained Voiceless.  Her exh my exh's father was glorified even though his children knew he was a schmuck (because he was high ranking in what he did) and well liked for the phony he was.  I believe she carried so much shame that was not hers (her whole life) and they were divorced.  There were horrible things he did to her (emotionally) horrible and I guess back in those days you sucked it up and kept it within yourself to suffer a life time. 

I'm not sure Iz in those days if you went to see a Psych for emotional problems you would have not been labled A NUT, to the NUT house  by others.  Men were the providers and what they gave out is what you should have dealt with as a WIFELY duty.  Stand by your man kind of thinking, afterall, he's just a man.  I remember when I was little most mothers stayed at home but my mom worked and enjoyed it. She was somewhat of a rebel I guess.

Only you (and people like my mom) dared to step out and rebel  way ahead of your time.  I mean the era.


Love
Deb

 

[Izzy_*now*]

Thank you lighter forthe affirming post

Throughoout life we are bound to find people who will never understand us, because of being on a different wave length, or believing that their lives are far more important than the lives of others, whether going through problerms, or living well.

Being on a different wave length is akin to separate realties, i.e. N-ism and non-N-ism.

Yes. Most definitely! Some people do not want the truth. It throws them off their intended course/plan, to garner sympathy or admiration.

and PR

It is pleasing to see you agree with lighter, so therefore we agree too.

I believe we owe it to our children to make the path of life as smooth for them as possible, as when the time comes for them to make their own decisions, they will have had a good start. I also believe that our children, on their life journey, can pick up on more relevant things to pass back to the parent to keep them on the up-dated path--from embarrassing ourselves!

More simply said, it was becasue of the lack of Thank you notes from my daughter and her generation of first cousins, that I questioned if these Notes were no longer expected. Even my therapist said she does not send Thank you Notes, so I learned from the younger set.

I also took all the doilies off my end tables etc. --- that came from my grandparents' generation and to even have them on the arms of the sofa and chair.

Keep on keeping on.

xx
Izzy

[Certain Hope]

Hi, Izzy,

 I'm still around... and glad that you are, too.

There's a good blend of voices here, even when there's not harmony. These days, I'm learning more by watching than by speaking... but I do hope expectantly for an outward turn in the tide and farrrrr less blame shifting. Personally, I get sick of myself... lol - - and that is definitely a very healthful place to be, imo.

Love to you,
Carolyn

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi FP

I thought once that I was too old to change and I wonder if there are older people who cannot--like your mother--change her way of life. I see she is my age.

I expect it depends on how deeply ingrained her ways are. I don't know when'seeing another person's point of view' came into being. I wonder if it has existed from the beginning, or if for more recent generations. Some of out beliefs are etched in stone, such as not doing anything criminal, a belief in G_d, a belief that the sun will rise tomorrow, and that is faith.

so you know tha value of NC to yourself, and can your mother tell you truthfully what it meant to her? If her latest email makes her appear different, more conducive to a calm discussion, then I would say it might be worth another try.

That of course is your decision. The new you, your new understandings, might be stronger than you think.

I believe there are dysfunctional people who do Not realize it. Their opinions of themselves is that they are always right and then we head into Narcissism, but to what degree?


Keep on thinking and keep us apprised
Love
Izzy

[Izzy_*now*]

hi CH

So good to hear your voice. Yes, just as children learn from example, we too can learn from keeping quiet and just reading.

However if we don't speak up at certain times, we have again rendered ourselves voiceless.

Personally, I get sick of myself----

Wow! FP read that--what a good way to know of our own dysfunction.!!! I heartily agree. Our guts will tell us!

Love
Izzy

[debkor]

Carolyn and Iz


(lol) Me too

Love
Deb

[Izzy_*now*]

Oh Deb,

Grandma was to blame. Ouch and ouch again.

Yes, I believe the older generations just lived with their pain and never complained. I see my mother as one. I always sensed she had something to say but never said it.

When I saw a psychiatrist at age 19, it was a sign of insanity or whatever, and was not discussed. I was so embarrassed that I went only once, then, and also couldn't afford it on my salary. It my area it was the insane asylum, often mentioned, along with the poor house and both scared me to death, when I was little.

I really hope that future generations will step up to the plate, anad I truly hope my daughter has been successful in dealing with her children.

The off side to that, is that she had to explain our relationship and then mine with my parents, so now I don't know my granddaughter's mind.

I will not attempt to go there.

Love
Izzy

[lighter]

I wanted to jump in and post through the last whatever number of posters comments I just read.

My heart breaks then swwops and soars from paragraph to paragraph.

Wounded children growing through their pain and helping their children to do better.

Redemption.  And I lied when I said I gave up on redemption.  I never did.

As for healing.... I think there are those who look around and ask "what did I do?"

Then there are those are look around for someone else to blame. 

I haven't lived long enough to trust that one can morph into another.

I only know that I have an idea who's who, when I listen to what people say. 

As the eternal optimist... heh who'da guessed that's what my spirit began as.... I'm usually the last to close a door and never open it again.

From where I'm standing now... more than ever.... some doors must be left untouched in order to perserve sanity and safety.

Taking care of ourselves is the most loving thing we can do for those we love.

Light