From someone old enough to know and know better?

[Izzy_*now*]

I know of only one person on this board who is older than I.

I remember my grandparents, my parents, and have a daughter and grandchildren; 5 generations.
If I am reading , correctly, everything in the family lineup, it is my daughter who has broken the jinx of dysfunction in the family. She has been affected by it, but now she has 2 children who are well adjusted. Her 3rd child is my eldest grandson who is living with his N father, now for 8 years, and has developed some N-ish traits. I still love the little him I cared for, for 4½ years, and when he came to see me and I told him, much to his delight, about what he did then, he was overjoyed.  He loved me more than the whole wide world, and his little sister more than….. Cheerios. She is now 19

I suspect that most others on this board are in the area of my daughter’s age, 44. She spotted the dysfunction in her grandparents, along with some things I discussed with her, and her choice was to keep herself and her children away from the dysfunction. I am proud of her. My dysfunction is a part of what she had to deal with.

With her therapy and mine we have reached a knowledge of one another that we never had, fully, before, as much was from outside (family) interference/traits//lack of understanding.

I know that physical abuse is a crime and can be proven. Emotional abuse might not be able to be proven and, as yet, is not a crime, by law, but is by human against human.

My generation is different from yours.

I lived in the generation, after I was finished school, and was working, when cigarettes were 30 ¢/pk and now are $9.00/pk. There were no computers at home or at work. I thought of this when I was out today and saw, in the drugstore, a young woman wearing the most beautiful 3” heeled, paisley shoes: red and gold, with blue jeans.  I am a pleasant person and open conversations with strangers. She told me they cost her $100. I wished I had my camera. In my day (and that is what we old people say) I had a pair of 3” heeled paisley shoes and matching handbag, The shoes cost me $20.00 That was the expensive price and blue jeans, let alone slacks, were never seen on the streets. The clerk was involved with the conversation and said if all 18 year olds kept their clothing instead of tossing it for the ‘new look”, the old look would be back. Boy! I loved those pointed toed shoes!

I was not into body piercing and tattoos. I still don’t have pierced ears and am no longer into jewelery, not even a watch. Time does not rule me anymore. I have a watch, with the stem pulled, so as not to wear down the battery and use it only on an occasion of more than one appointment. I still have not used my cell phone.

I am in the ‘mother’s age group‘, here, and I have done things to make myself just be me and am liked by many people. How many of you can say that your dysfunctional mother has done something to rectify matters with herself, with you, her daughter, her son?  How many of you can say that your mother even recognizes the dysfunction?

Perhaps this board is not for me as I am dealing with women who are my daughter’s age! Men and women differ and I won’t explain myself there. I have very little to do with the men on board, and will leave them to anyone who wants them. Obviously, it is not wise for a dysfunctional F and a dysfunctional M to get together. I will even add that my opinion, in general, is that those who want another relationship, cannot expect it to work, if one still carries baggage from the past.

In this day and age, women usually go out to work as many are single parents, or are trying to build up enough money to escape an N. A stay-at-home Mom is from the age of my mother, who would be 100 this year.

My daughter left her N with nothing but the 3 children, worked, attended University and has a medical degree. I am proud of her and it has nothing to do with me. It might be in the genes though, as I was always a hard worker, and I also know what it is like to have to deal with different personalities at work. I was not a ‘kept’ woman,  I suffered physically to have the money I have today.

I am awaiting the return of batwing sleeved sweaters.

[Izzy_*now*]

Oh Iz,

I am sorry if you feel, felt that I was avoiding you.  I really am not.  I have been reading and posting and having anxiety attacks looking up health issues in between.  My mind is all over the place sometimes.

Talk about a lesson learned.  I learned not to look up anything on the net because you will surely go from nothing to 4 days left to live.

Love
Deb

no Deb
I never felt you were avoiding me. I appreciate your post

When it comes to our health, the Internet can have a person dead in short order. I did a lot of searching myself, and did regarding my crooked leg.

I read that a cast must accommodate the possibility of more swelling, or the leg could die in there, and be amputated. Scary! The cast on my leg was from Emergency and was on for 2 weeks. It cut the back of my thigh, causing a skin injury that took some time to heal, was tight over the swelling, and caused the pressure sore on my heel. That's what I discerned from the Internet

Fortunately, the next ortho-- Dr. had it removed and saw a blood blister on my shin, had only the x-rays from Emerg. to work with, but first of all, when I saw my foot, pointing backwards, I immediated swivelled it to face frontward. I interfered with my injury, so will have to live with whatever comes forth.

There are silly things on the Net that will tell you when you will die. One of mine said June, 2008. ARGGGHHH!   

Take good care

Love
Izzy

[Hopalong]

Well I'm an old bat, and you've inspired and cheered me, Izz.
And you've taught me a lot.

You are like one of those big airfilled punch-dolls with a weighted bottom (metaphorically, I mean!).
You get hit, swing over, and use the momentum to swing right back up again.

And your life story, especially your early life, has moved me always.
I would love it if you read The Dwelling Place--by Catharine Cookson.
You remind me a lot of her heroines.

xo
Hops

[Izzy_*now*]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, Hops

You are so sweet to me! I've had some lovely PMs and am so appreciative!

I want to add to my first post, but will do it here.

I made poisoned mud pies for Hitler.

I recall a neighbour man--yes and I was under the age of 6--- who I 'Loved' When I heard talk about his going to war, I crawled under my wagon and cried.

He married my mother's sister and became  my uncle. I fell out of love somewhere along the liine.

Thanks for the 'punching bag who pops right back up' analogy. That has been me all my life. No matter the problem, I would not let it turn me into a whining little kid, looking for sympathy. I dealt with it and moved on!  This is likely because I had no one to fall back upon!!! *I* had to do it!

The Dwelling Place--by Catharine Cookson.

I never heard of her. Would she be my generation?

Thanks Loads!
Love
Izzy

[finding peace]

Dear Izzy,

How many of you can say that your dysfunctional mother has done something to rectify matters with herself, with you, her daughter, her son?  How many of you can say that your mother even recognizes the dysfunction?

I can’t say that, and am coming to believe that I will never be able to say that ….. because she is broken.  Through no fault of her own, she is broken – and that is sad for both of us.

It is just one of the reasons I appreciate your voice here Izzy.  It is enlightening and a breath of fresh air to know that not all are like my mother. 

Some mothers (unlike my own) are willing to work with their children to make a better relationship for all involved. 

It shows a level of caring that I will never have with my mother, but that I can learn and give to my children.

Thank you,
Peace

[lighter]

Oh Izzy.....

you're one of the bravest among us.

You've been there, done that and live with challenge every day of your life.  

You overcome and show us how it's done.... your way, of course; )

It would pain me deeply to see you, along with CB and Write.... (and our other dear friend who cannot be named ... leave too.  

Really.  You've been through a lot and shared the journey.  You've become one of the old gaurd...... even if people don't always like how you say things.... we never have to wonder what you mean or if you're manipulating us to get icky co dependant needs met, no matter the expense.

It's part of what makes you you and.....

I



really



really


really

respect


and



admire




the child



the young adult



the parent



the patient who would learn to pee again



the champion who put her life back together


over

and

over

again....

Izzy.

Light

[Izzy_*now*]

Oh Finding Peace

I really regret that you feel your mother will never see what it's all about. How old is she?

Ah! How does one know when one is dysfunctional?  whatever the generation, whatever the age.....

I realized it at a wedding.......... and much later on--- the faces of girls/young women my age ---- their faces showed emotion, their faces shone with deliight, their faces shone as lovable, their faces were never filled with anger and spite. I knew they had something, but what? that I didn't have. I knew I was different, but how? No one told me when I was young enough to rectify it. I was not wise enough when I was young enough to not fall into the trap of the wrong people.--I am not worth it, so I chose the 'backstreet' women and men as friends.

But I came out of that way of thinking, and  still was bombarded with hurtful things.  It was my daughter's N.

and not knowing, I ended up with an N of my own, at age 59--ten years ago. I left and am 6 years on my own and digging into and examining my past and putting everything in order, then leaving it behind.

In doing so, I  have far fewer problems in life, and am on the verge of my goal regarding my daughter and me. We will be OK now. We have crossed a big hurdle, and I am an old woman--- who is happy!

Does this help? or hurt?
Iz

[lupine]

Perhaps this board is not for me as I am dealing with women who are my daughter’s age!

I'm not as old as you, Izzy .... but I'm close.   

Someone, hopefully, has to break the chain and say this is not working and I want a family.  It seems like you and your daughter are doing this?

I get a sense of regret and sadness from your post.  I guess lots of us reach the point when we realize we did the best we could with what we knew at the moment and now we realize we weren't able to change everything.  I'm doing well enough now that I would like to think that I started the journey in what is left of my family.  And I suspect you have started the journey in your own. 

Actually, it was my father who started the journey for me.  When he was 70, he finally started talking about his mother and father and his relationship with my mother.  It was fascinating for me at the time.  All the questions I had were validated.  I was not crazy.

Anyway, I guess the feeling that maybe we have failed in not breaking the pattern is not always accurate.  We are asking the right questions now???  And if we can't fix everything, we are empowering the next generation to ask them?  The hardest thing I've had to deal with is that I can't go back with what I know now and change what I did then.  But I can share the knowledge.

If I'm not responding to the specifics of your post, I am sorry.  I am responding to the feeling I had when I read it....Take care....You're one of a kind!!!!  I wouldn't mind being your neighbor.   

[Izzy_*now*]

My deareat lighter

You have always been so good to me and I really wish you well too. Your post to me is just so loveable!! Really, really!!

--"the patient who would learn to pee again"-- and you would remember that. It was a milestone in my life and you are great!!!!!

I was so touched by your post. I am so touched at how you understand me and I don't think I know your age--my daughter's age? So this old (er) woman has been through WWII and Hitler, and ration stamps. Sugar was red. Meat was brown. The ration books were handed out at school, one book per child, plus those still at home.

My mother was always saying we were going to the poor house. "You're driving us to the poor house". Boy! I sure was afraid of that poor house, whatever it was! We never went to the that poor house. Did they exist?????

The Government bought Dad's farm for $5,000.00 and he bought another farm for $11,000.00 having to borrow from my mother's father---Ewwwwww! Borrow from your father-in-law? The old farm is now listed at $499,000.00.

Then I was away when Dad sold his second farm for $25,000.00 ............Wow! A profit!  About 6 months later a neighbour sold his for $100,000.00. It was a conglomerate buying up land, and I see that my father was read as a 'loser' while I know the neighbour guy would never be seen that way.

Dad bought a house in the city for $11,000.00, 1963. He died in '86, left everyrthing to Mom, and she gave each of us a cheque for $5,000.00 (Dad's farm) and the rest was hers.  Mom died in '94 and the house sold for $120,000.00. Mom was finally free of the poor house, but in the hospital and couldn't enjoy a penny of it. How sad!

I think if we pay enough attention to what the parents have done, we can have a idea of what the children will be like. Some will break free though, and others will bask in how wrong they have been done by such awfu parentsl Sure! My parents were dysfunctional, but in the long run, they made sure their children would never go to the poor house!! Again, I am just sorry they didn't enjoy life, because they just weren't able to, let alone enjoy their children.

I expect that whoever posts whatever that it is expected it is the opinion only of the writer?

You hang in there , lighter

Love Izzy



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[Izzy_*now*]

hiya Lupine

The hardest thing I've had to deal with is that I can't go back with what I know now and change what I did then.  But I can share the knowledge.

Good heavens, Lupine. Are you trying to make me cry? You and I are on the same page when we agree with one another. I love what you said in what I quoted from you. That is exactly how my daughter and I are dealiing with the past. We went back, as painful as it was, and talked about what each thought/did/why/ etc. in a certain circumstance. We are pulling it together and I am happy.

There are some people who will never do this, as it would mean admitting to mistakes/failure/ lack of knowledge.

I bared my awful soul to my daughter to show her it wasn't my rotten soul, It was my interpretation from actions and words from my upbringing/surroundings and how I tried so hard to reach a point of having a face, shining with freedom as I first saw in a high school classmate, a few years from graduation, when she became engaged. I knew then Boy! Did I know then!! I had something wrong and some work to do and I was maybe 19-20? Can you believe no therapist has done for me what this board has done and I am now 69, and like my parents, I missed out on life. I am not sad about it. After 69 years one is not looking for romance or a job....... I think?

We are asking the right questions now???   From another post of mine

Specifics weren't needed, lupine. I was with you all the way, as though I had written that myself, and if you read my post about crying for the first time in 15 years, I was almost ready for another bout!

Let me find my paternal grandmother--- a real piece of work!

xx
Izzy

[Izzy_*now*]

Dear OC

I do NOT know what it is like to lose a child to death-I hope to never find out

I hope I never know either, but there are parents, every day, losing their children to suicide, murder, disease,  and who is left to mourn, but the immediate family.

When I was 7, my little baby brother died, 6½ months old.  When I think back to how my parents were then, how the relatives were then, how it was all handled,  I am  so sad for everyone involved.

His name was Johnnie. I carried him outside & sat on a window well to have him enjoy the sun. I wasn't told that as a baby, he couldn't sit alone. I let him go and his head hit the cement. He had a little break in his skin, but it looked like a huge mistake on my part. I was not punished. I remember thinking that maybe Johnnie would be the brother, the sibliing I never had. But he died of acute leukemia.

He was laid out in a little white casket in our parlour until the day of his funeral. I sat on Aunt Gertie's knee, and when the woman playing the piano, started 'Stand up, Stand Up for Jesus', she stood up and I forget everything until the graveyard, when I saw my mother wearing a hat with a veil, a white hanky and that all 5 of us kids were to go back home. (We were not to be there when the casket was lowered.)

In that day and age (as we old people say) there was not a word of his death at the table, around the house...no where. My little Johnnie was gone.

When my mother was dying, a sister asked if she ever thought of Johnnie. My mother said that she had next to forgotten about him. I was so surprised to hear that! I had never forgotten him.

How could a mother forget a child? I sure could not forget mine, and I was within a cm of losing her.

[lupine]

Can you believe no therapist has done for me what this board has done and I am now 69, and like my parents, I missed out on life. I am not sad about it. After 69 years one is not looking for romance or a job....... I think?

I don't think you or I missed out on life.  We're still living it.  And we're surviving!!  And we're still longing to share what we have learned with those coming along.  I mean like could it get better?  We're doing OK.  What if those elders had done the same thing when we were young?  (Actually, some of them did which gives me courage now.) 


The hardest thing I have done is to share what I know based on what I know at the moment with my children and let them do the best with what they know at the moment with their lives as they are at the moment.

Take care.....

[debkor]

Iz,

Oh now I think if you were to leave I just may become hysterical. I never thought I could attach to a group on the internet like I have here. I really consider you my friends even if it is just on line friends.  I do miss the rest also. 

Ouchhh Iz, you leg, ouch!!  My D had a cast and the swelling did put a big gash in the back of her knee.  But all was good and she put on a pair of high heel shoes as soon as we got home after they removed it. She was 2 and still is wearing them, well not same ones, but high heels. 

She made me wear a pair when we went out one night for dinner, ohhh, I was not use to it and flew across the wood floor to my dinner table. Embarrassing. 

Now I'm going back to read this thread.  I want to look at the pictures and read the stories.  I do love your story telling and I have embedded in my mind that plastic bag on your head you posted once.  I still laugh.

Iz,
You truly are a special person (mom) out of all the people in real life I know who had turmoil with their moms not one has ever went to the extent you did to make it right with their D's. 

OK I'll be back going to read now.

PS If CB and Write are lurking  maybe someday you can stop in I do miss you all. Laura too. 

Love
Deb

[Izzy_*now*]

will be herE  but  dvd


      
IN THE COMPUTER

[debkor]

Iz,

Thats the one, (LOL)  I love that picture.

Love
Deb