Rage

[gjazz]

Ami:
My NF went to great lengths to try to make everyone around him crazy.  Not just think they were crazy, ACTUALLY crazy.  I think this might be fairly common with Ns.  They manipulate and control, manipulate and control.  And I did some things when I lived with him that were in fact quite insane.  So when he told people I was the one who needed help (or my mom, usually a woman) people would agree.  With my brother and sister-in-law he went so far as to infiltrate their therapist and pull strings there.  And I think one of the only defense mechanisms available against this is rage.  And maybe this sounds pollyanna-ish, but getting past the anger to a place of peace is going to feel so very good for having been where you are now.

Hang in there.

[seajoy]

This is the first day that I have heard about voicelessness.  I am 51 years old and I think I know why I am chronicly depressed now, at least part of the reason.  I identify strongly with your description of your Mother, Ami.  I have tried to explain how I felt invisible many times to my therapist without feeling that she really understood how alone I felt growing up then and still.  Every time I tried to express an opinion or an emotion to my Mom she would say something to the effect of "Don't be silly" or ignore me altogether.  I felt like an outsider at school as well and would prefer to be alone, I could go on and on.  Anyway, I know how difficult it is to tear away from family who have treated you badly all your life while at the same time believe that they truly love you and have done you no wrong, at least that is how they present themselves. I wish you strength and happiness.

[Ami]

Thank you Seajoy and Gjazz,
 I feel homicidal rage. I NEVER felt like this before. I see HOW people kill people. I bought all the lies of my M, for love. I wanted love so badly that I threw away my good sense and believed that SHE , an NPD, was "normal" and *I*, a non NPD, was abnormal.
I really, really could smash her. I could see how my brother wrote her a letter that he could throw her down the stairs.
She violated innocent kids, as a predator. My Aunt could never understand doing s/thing like this.
 Then, my H was so easy to beat down, once I got gut level strength. It was SO easy. I suffered for nothing ALL these years.
 What a joke. I was fine and my H could be beaten down ,like falling off  a log.
 I really and truly could kill s/one or s/thing. I am afraid of this anger. I really see how people expode ,after a lifetime of stuffing anger. I see how people hit people or kill people. My son,Scott, wanted to kill himself ,on my H's birthday.He did it, a day later. He left a note that he could never forgive my H and how much he hated him. The note dissapeared.Scott was so angry,but could not put it on the person he should have. I put anger many different places. It IS scary when it comes out ,though--very,very scary.I guess I will take a hot, hot bath and try to let it melt(hopefully)    Thanks again for all your insightful and  caring responses.         Ami

[seajoy]

I know Ami.  It is sometimes easier believe it or not, to be angry than to be hurt.  I don't want anyone to know how deeply they hurt me.

[Ami]

Dear Seajoy,
 Could you explain HOW hurt is under anger.     Thanks so much   Ami

[gjazz]

I'm so very sorry about your son.  You have every right to your rage.  And as for homicidal rage--what else CAN you have?  We all want to survive and there's someone out there who quite clearly makes that as hard as he can for you, for Scott.  If you feel someone wants to kill you, even if not physically, I think it's perfectly natural to want to obliterate that person.  I don't know how old Scott was, or how long ago this happened.  In my family, three of the four children attempted suicide, though none succeeded.  Hang in there.  I wonder--maybe this isn't a good thing to ask, I certainly don't want to make anything harder for you--but I wonder if it would be possible for you to channel your actions FOR your son.  He would want you to survive, to feel strong and in time, happy and peaceful, wouldn't he?  I agree that it is sometimes easier to be angry than hurt.  Anger can be a defense against unbearable pain.  And yes, to hot baths.  I take many.

[Ami]

Dear Gjazz,
 You can ask anything. I know it will be with love. I am trying to live my life as a full person b/c Scott loved me and would want me to. I want to live life whole, for a change,if you know what I mean ,and I bet you do!         Love   Ami


((((((((Gjazz))))))))

[gjazz]

I do indeed.  Hugs to you.  I get homicidal rages too, but less frequently now.  I grew up believing that my NF wanted me to kill myself.  I still believe that--he dislikes children intensely.  And so dutifully I tried, at ages 11 and 14.  Then, after the second attempt, I realized I hated him so much that no frigging way was I going to do his bidding.  That was my first real rage at him, so I feel that anger can have positive effects.  It's just hard if not impossible to see that at the time, because you just want to throttle someone.  And oh yes, my NF's response to those attempts?  "You only did that to hurt me."

Ah.  Who knew?

[Ami]

My friend told me that she heard my H tell Scott that it would destroy my H IF Scott killed himself. Scott left the note that he could never forgive my H  and killed himself a day after my H's birthday. 
 I believe in Heaven as an actual place, where Scott is "alive " now and I will see him, again.  This is one of the main reasons I can go on.
 Today, I feel better, with the anger. Anger is s/thing you NEED in your tool box of emotions. If not, you will be set up for abuse, again.It is pitiful,but true.
 I have to be wiser about life, without getting too "hard". That is a balancing act(lol)      Love     Ami

[gjazz]

Ami:  so glad you are over that initial rage hump.  What your husband said is unforgivable.  Suggesting your son fight back by self-destructing--it's what my NF did, too.  Have a good day. I've lost a couple family members over the past six years and, despite a lifetime of skepticism, have come to realize that not only do they go to a better place, they also come around.  This Easter I was having a tough time--suicidal thoughts, which I get from time to time still--and went outside and lay on a chaise, and there was a pure white dove sitting above me on the fence, watching me.  Never seen it before or since.  Even before I actually saw it I felt a sense of peace come over me, and that's why I opened my eyes and looked that way.  It sat there for a long time--a couple of minutes, I'd say, long for a bird to sit still, then flew a single circle over my backyard and off. 

[Ami]

No. Gjazz
 My H did not tell my son to fight back by self destructing. My H said it would "kill" HIM, if my son committed suicide.
 My son did it, I think,in part, as an act of revenge  to my H.Of course, my son's thinking was very "off" to have gotten to that point.My H "took" him as a Golden Boy . Scott could not reconcile his deep feelings of antipathy  to his father and I think that was what the trigger was for Scott's death.      Ami

[gjazz]

Right--I think my phrasing was just bad there.  I mean your H told Scott that if Scott killed himself, it would hurt or kill his tormentor.  So while it is a very confused, twisted thing, your NH made it almost an incentive--I can hurt my father, get revenge.

[Ami]

YES, Gjazz.
That is what happened, exactly.Thanks for your help and understanding.      Love, Ami

[gjazz]

With my NF, too.  I've wondered many, many times if his whole "If anyone hurts themselves they are only doing it to hurt me" blabathon was intended as incentive or was just another mindless manifestation of him thinking of himself as the center of everyone's universe.  I've talked to my mother about it and she believes he was very much trying to get her to commit suicide.  Trying to make her think she was crazy.  Trying to convince her family she was crazy.  So in the evil vs. emotional moron debate, she comes down on the side of evil, and I do, too.  Instead of Daddy Warbucks we had Daddy Gaslight.

[Kimberli63]

Wow Gjazz and Ami, I suddenly understand why I tried to commit suicide when I was a child. It wasn't so much that I wanted to, which is why I didn't succeed but because my narc mother wanted me to so she could be rid of me. She professed to loving me and blah, blah but the reality is she would secretly have been  very pleased to be rid of the person, she found impossible ( to deal with). Thank you for this extremely insightful discussion.

Kim in Oz