Author Topic: Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families  (Read 9335 times)

Ishana

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« on: August 11, 2004, 07:56:07 PM »
Greetings everyone!

I am wondering if we could have a conversation about relationships between brothers and sisters who have grown up together in dysfunctional, narcissistic households?  My questions would be:  What are your experiences related to this subject?  How were your relationships with your siblings when you were young?  How about now that you're adults?  What have you found to be helpful in improving your relationships with your brothers and sisters?

I look forward to your responses.

Ishana

flower

  • Guest
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2004, 03:30:34 AM »
Hi Ishana!

My only living sibling is a flaming N and it is hopeless to do anything about it.


 ------------------------------------------------------

Thanks so much for your insight and support.
 It aided my healing. Too much of my heart
was in this post to let it remain here for posterity on the web.
The post served its purpose and now it is time to
edit it or gently take it down.
 
To every thing there is a season, and a time
to every purpose under the heaven:  Ecclesiates 3:1

------------------------------------------------------------

MadameButterfly

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • http://www.Livingdestiny.com
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2004, 09:04:14 AM »
Hi Ishana,
I grew up in a home with an Nmom.  My dad had to travel a lot for his job which left my brother and I do cling to each other for support and protection against her evil doings.  We were extremely close growing up.  We always stood up for each other and supported each other.  Neither one of us has had contact with our mother for years.  Today we are really good friends who count on each other for whatever we need.  He is a blessing to me, a brother and a friend.  We are lucky because we have the same understanding about what really went on in our home.  We ended the cycle.  I'm not sure if this helps you or not.  What is the situation with your siblings?  
Madame Butterfly
Debbie Fisher
Living Destiny
    ~Empowering Individuals to Achieve             Personal Freedom

Anonymous

  • Guest
re: brothers and sisters
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2004, 09:07:05 AM »
Nice topic!

There were four of us, three older girls and the younger son.  The girls knew, especially the two older ones, that we were created by accident, for my parents wanted sons to pass on teh family name. I could go on a bit about that, but it would not be positive in nature. I am the oldest.

We all have our survival methods of self actualization.  My next younger sister and I have had extensive counseling over the years. She started in her early 20s, and I started in my late 40s.  I am not needing it now except only occasionally as a "booster" but she is in it still on a weekly basis.  She has a tendency to be bossy; it is a way she relates to love in some respect.  I read about it in something Dr. GRossman wrote.   (I also read about me, for in my younger years I was completely submissive, the quiet one who moved in and out with out notice. ) This sister has not been able to maintain a relationship due to the bossy behavior. She lives near mother and daddy and is angry because she ends up taking care of mother and did daddy before he died.  She cannot tolerate though someone else doing it.  

My youngest sister could sing beautifully as a child, thus got loads of love and attention when she, with her curly hair bobbing, performed in front of anyone who came to see us.  It was phenominal to watch the attention, love, and admiration from parents and wonder why I did not get any.  When the son got older, the attention for her abruptly stopped.  She has not figured it out yet I am sorry to say.  So, now, she has substituted a Heavenly Father for our earthly parent's attention. She sings and preaches fundamentalist Christianity to whomever will listen.  I have seen her literally take the headphones off of a stranger in a waiting room at the hospital and sing to him...he ws horrified.  I had to leave the room laughing.  

The son walks on water as far as decesased father and living mother are concerned.  He was a multi millionaire at age 6 and my first child was a welfare baby.  You get the idea.  Money was love and power in my birth family.

We siblings do love each other, but as far as respecting our individual methods of survival in this earth, well, not all understand each other's methods.  Taht makes it challenging. The son has trouble with one sister who bosses him a bit, but they are more alike though than the rest of us.  I will not tolerate the younger sister's version of Christianity thrust at me so I stay clear.  She is bitchy one minute and prays for your soul the next.  Lots of internal anger.  The bossy sister is truly trying to understand but so far has not, but she is getting there.  THe son I feel has very N tendencies and is living through his own son for he talks of him incessently and not a lot about his daughter unless she is some sort of top achiever in some area.   All think I am a bit odd, for I am going my own way at this point in life for it is all that will work for me.  I am the only one that has her own lawyer, own faith, own accountant system, and own values.  When I made some changes, the others had much trouble understanding what I was doing and becamed threatened or something by the changes.  Mother really did.  It was a problem for me, until I finally got strong enough in owning my true self so as not to let it affect me.  I still have to work at this sometimes.

Mother asked me the other day, " How come your children turned out better than mine did?"  She was being very serious.  I  was voiceless momentarily, then said, "I simply listened to them."

Enough said.

Freetobeme

Anonymous

  • Guest
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2004, 12:33:22 PM »
I have a lot of siblings. In my family, my mother is supposed to be the conduit. We aren't supposed to talk to each other, but only through her. This is an unspoken rule, not stated outright. So we don't talk to each other that much because if my mom finds out, she sulks and makes us feel guilty. So we're still under her control in some ways. We get along except for one rageaholic sibling who is quite difficult.

bunny

Anonymous

  • Guest
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2004, 01:31:49 PM »
Hello,

I wish I had the opportunity to band together with my siblings while growing up and to feel closer.  Ironically, we were told and we acted as though we were all "close" in our post school years.   My mother was the main cheerleader of Ndad who was gone a lot.  When he was around, his unspoken attitude was that we were major inconveniences.  As a result, my oldest brother and I became invisible.  My Nbro was the golden boy and copied my father a lot.  

My Ndad is a verbal bully.  He didn't call us names or swear, just got really loud, disgusted, and would insinuate that there was something wrong with us if we spoke our minds. "What made you say that?  How can you think that?" Nbro was a major tattler and mother's favorite (because he was most like Ndad).  My other brother never talked about anything and today is a very angry bottled up guy who is not very insightful about anybody's feelings, let alone his own.  Nbro would take on Ndad and that's when the fireworks flew.  My father HAD to win any argument and would follow my brother from room to room (like the Great Santini & basketball) to continue to make his "points".  

My voiceless bro operates from a small fortress built inside of himself, even within his own household of wife and two kids.  Like his wife, he is very passive aggressive.  I felt closest to him growing up, but today I wonder if that "closeness" was really only identification with his loner/outsider status.  We didn't talk about anything intimate if we talked at all.  He and I were sort of numbed out.  He watched TV and I read.  He married a BPD woman and we siblings do not see him anymore because he is a major enabler of her machinations.

My Nbro is coming to the conclusion that he was abused by my father.  But he says it like he was the only one!  :roll:  He isn't very interested in my experiences except to have me say "I know" and validate what happened to him.  I also used to have to watch what I said because he would use it against me.  Now I don't care if he does or not because I see it for what it is and can speak my truth to my parents a bit more now.  I can defend myself by pointing out the consequences of how their words and actions affect me (they don't stop to think about that...but when I point it out to them it has some effect), at least with my mother.

Anonymous

Dawning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2004, 09:52:04 PM »
Hello Ishana.  

Quote
What are your experiences related to this subject? How were your relationships with your siblings when you were young?


I am an only child.  Nmother and Nfather divorced.  I guess the closest thing I had to siblings were my two cousins but my mother and aunt have always disliked each other since I can remember.  I was physically abused by my aunt when I was under the age of 10 (in private) and she will never admit to the abuse.  Once, she abused me in public, and it is an "unspoken rule" that no one is allowed to bring it up.  I confronted her about this last year and she justified it.  She said I was a *little bitch* - guess that means I deserved it.  What a load of crap.   :x  But the effect lingers...I still question myself...AM I REALLY a little bitch who deserves to be hit and slapped around?  Uninstall...uninstall...

Bunny wrote:
Quote
In my family, my mother is supposed to be the conduit. We aren't supposed to talk to each other, but only through her. This is an unspoken rule, not stated outright. So we don't talk to each other that much because if my mom finds out, she sulks and makes us feel guilty. So we're still under her control in some ways.


This is similar to what my grandmother did with my mother and aunt.  My first therapist told me that her mentality was likely "divide and conquer."  My grandmother was brought up in an orphanage as a child.  Her insecurities were likely expressed by keeping the two daughters separated somehow even though on the outside the family appeared *perfect.*  Nonetheless, the hostility between my mother and aunt still exists and was, for awhile, in danger of being passed down to the kids - us cousins.  I have a pretty good relationship with one of my cousins.  She allows me to use her address for insurance purposes, etc.  

My grandmother is in denial about everything.  It is maddening to be with her.  Very passive-aggressive.  The last time I saw her was when my mother and I were planning to take a drive to a city about 4 hours away and stay for two night before I caught a flight.  Our relationship was pretty good then (relatively speaking) but grandmother sulked...yes, that is the perfect word.  She felt like she didn't want to *impose* on the other daughter by asking her for care.  I invited grandmother to come with us but that did not turn the trick.  It seems she wants to keep everyone divided and will to her dying day.  Several weeks ago, I got a letter from her telling me that *you are loved just as if you were one of my own children and grandchildren."  WTF???  

Thanks for the questions, Ishana.

p.s.  as a teenager and young adult, I was enmeshed in this hatred between the two sisters.  I, naturally, wanted to protect my mother and also wanted to shout out the abuse I had received at the hands of my aunt but no one would listen.  the more I got embroiled with protecting my mother, the worse it got for me - I became the identified patient and my mother could pass off her rage onto me (ie, get me to do her raging for her) so she could come out of it smelling like a rose.   In the last several years, I have used the rather effective imagery of seeing the three of them (grandmother/mother/aunt) as a 3-headed monster.
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Ishana

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2004, 11:23:13 PM »
Thank you all for your responses.  It seems that we all have very different experiences and responses to our Narcissistic childhoods even if we are raised in the very same household.  I admire each of you for seeking your own voice and truth.  I also perceived a great deal of love and understanding for our siblings, even if we still experience difficulties or are not as close to them as we would like.

I asked the question because I am experiencing difficulties in my relationship with my younger sister.  My sister has special needs, which makes things even more complicated.  Sometimes I get tired just trying to figure out the dynamics of what is going on, let along try to find a healthy or workable response.

Lately I've been wanting to pull away from her but she is very needy, especially emotionally.  The problem is that when I try to be available or there for her she just pushes me away.  Then, when I stay away she becomes enraged that I'm not giving her enough attention.

I understand that a big part of growing up in a Narcisstic/Enabler household is the lack of attention.  I experience this loss myself.  I am trying to figure out how to have healthy interactions and provide my sister with support without enabling dysfunctional behavior or taxing myself so much that it affects my well-being or happiness.  

I have only had contact with my younger brother 3 or 4 times since I became an adult and left home.  I am sad about this because I feel I do not know him.  I understand that the reason he is so distant is to protect himself, but I still feel sad for myself and my son, who is his only nephew.  My brother is my son's only Uncle.  My brother only saw my son once, when my son was 3 years old.  My son is 20 now.  This is a deep loss for me and my son.

I realize this is all because of how dysfunctional our home was and the deep level of pain the three of us (my sister, brother and myself) carry.  It makes me mad that I STILL have to deal with all of this after all these years.   :evil:  

Ishana

Dawning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2004, 12:36:04 AM »
Ishana wrote:

Quote
I asked the question because I am experiencing difficulties in my relationship with my younger sister. My sister has special needs, which makes things even more complicated. Sometimes I get tired just trying to figure out the dynamics of what is going on, let along try to find a healthy or workable response.


Has a trustworthy diagnosis been made regarding your sister?  Nowadays, there seems to be alot of information on special needs once a diagnosis has been made.  Then, you'll have the option of joining a support group and/or investigate strategies and maybe you won't feel so tired or see the situation as so complicated if you can share with others.

Quote
My brother only saw my son once, when my son was 3 years old. My son is 20 now. This is a deep loss for me and my son.


I can relate to this loss so well...its so sad.  I had - until recently - an overwhelming sense of loss and pain I was not in touch with.  No one in my family - esp my parents - has ever acknowledged my loss.  What gives me heart and hope about your story is that you ackowledge a loss *too*.  This makes it alot easier for your son - to have a mother who is not in denial.  I'm glad you care about him so much.
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Anonymous

  • Guest
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2004, 11:02:11 AM »
Hi Ishana,

Your post about your brother/son's uncle reminded me of another thing.  My parents did not stay in touch with their siblings really.  My father would call his brother once in a great while.  They weren't close but they weren't enemies either.  They were both rather detached from everyone.
I've only seen my mother's sisters about twice (each).  I never saw her brother and he lived closest to us.  It turns out he was a raging alcoholic. My aunts were pretty flipped out, too.

It's no wonder that if any of us wanted to move away for career reasons, they were very angry and hurt.  Because they had done that very thing and they felt rejected Big Time.  They interpreted a move as a rejection of them, not growth of us, and as a failure of their parenting.  Ugh. So we were strongly discouraged from "hurting" them the way they hurt and ran away from their homes.  Happy families stick together... :roll:

Anonymous

  • Guest
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2004, 12:12:43 PM »
Quote from: Ishana
Lately I've been wanting to pull away from her but she is very needy, especially emotionally.  The problem is that when I try to be available or there for her she just pushes me away.  Then, when I stay away she becomes enraged that I'm not giving her enough attention.


I don't know what her special needs are, but people with emotional problems will "test" others to see if they have any boundaries. They will push beyond acceptable limits to try to keep getting gratification. Of course, they can't get it as it's humanly impossible. Then they become enraged. It's a vicious cycle of their bad behavior (testing) pushing others away, followed by rage at being abandoned.

The only way to deal with this (and it's hard) is to draw firm limits and stick to them like glue. She'll detect any lessening of boundaries as a total cave-in by you, and she'll demand even more. When you set limits with her, she will be deeply enraged. Don't let this deter you. Keep it up and she will soon realize that you have boundaries. You have to keep enforcing them, though.


Quote from: Ishana
I have only had contact with my younger brother 3 or 4 times since I became an adult and left home.  I am sad about this because I feel I do not know him.  I understand that the reason he is so distant is to protect himself, but I still feel sad for myself and my son, who is his only nephew.  My brother is my son's only Uncle.  My brother only saw my son once, when my son was 3 years old.  My son is 20 now.  This is a deep loss for me and my son.


Can you or your son contact him now and start a connection?

bunny

Ishana

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2004, 08:34:44 PM »
Thank you everyone for your feedback.  Wow, that feels GREAT!   :D

Dawning...my sister refuses diagnosis or treatment.  She is pretty functional in some ways...not in others.  She does have a recent (within the past year) diagnosis on the brain trauma but they aren't doing anything to help her that I am aware of.  My plan is to visit her doctor in the Fall.

I agree about the boundaries for my sister Bunny and Guest.  I am doing that but it is hard because it upsets her so much...

I have tried many times...even quite recently...to establish contact with my brother.  Mostly he doesn't even respond.  Once in a while I catch him at home and we chat a bit...but mostly, no.  I've been down in his area a few times and he avoids a meeting.  

I am available and have made it clear that 1) I am not judgemental (he has a different lifestyle than mine), 2)  I am relaxed and am willing to build a relationship slowly in ways that feel good to both of us, and 3)  he is important to me and I love him.

He may be racist (my husband and I are different races) because he has said things about that before.  Also, in the past he has had way more money than I so maybe that's an issue.  (Status and materialism are strong values to many people in my family.)  I really don't know what is blocking him from responding to my requests for relationship but I hope someday he will be able to trust me a little bit.  

I've only seen him twice since he was 13 years old, which was about 24 years ago.  We were badly abused so maybe I represent very bad memories.  

He will always have a special place in my heart and I hope he knows that because I have told him several times orally and in writing.

I can't think of anything else to do to remedy the situation.

Anyone with some ideas let me know!

Ishana

Jenocidal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Parental Narcissism
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2004, 10:52:12 PM »
I have a half brother.  He is 9 yrs younger than me.  Up until he was born, I was merely physically abused when punished, yelled at and ignored.  But once my brother was born he was placed in a superiority position over me as "mom's favorite".  The difference between me and my brother was glaring; she had more respect and even some love for my brother's father, and she disdained the mistake she made when she had me with my father (whom she loathes and disrespects).  While growing up, I always felt that my mother deamed me as competition of some sort.  She would date boys not more than 3-4 yrs older than me, then hide them away in her bedroom.  She would go out of her way to intergrate my brother into whatever man de jour she had going on, but never me.  

My brother grew up with every advantage in life.  He was given golf memberships every year since he was 7 yrs old.  At any given time the child had three or more personal computers.  He had all the toys, went to all the summer sports camps, had all the expensive clothes, was even given two cars, one of which is brand new, all before the age 18.  All this while I, as a young teen, struggled on disability and welfare with the illness I acquired while enduring the physical abuse.  I left home at age 16 - it was either I kill myself, or I kill her.  I left and started anew... and she hated me for it.  

My brother is incredibly, and self admittedly (as my mother is also) narcissitic... yet has the classic fragile narcissistic ego that he hides behind his false self.  My mother doesn't like my sibling and I to communicate or interact without her present so, coupled with his lack of respect for me learned from our maternal structure, my brother and I don't have a relationship, yet we are very accessable to eachother.  I fear this is how things will be always.

And one more thing, and I'd like to get feedback on this as I have thought about it at great length, and discussed this with other interested family members... so here goes.

What drives a Narcissistic  single mother to feel the need to sleep in the same bed as her adult son?  And what causes an adult son (now 18 yrs old) to continue to sleep with his mother?  Even when other sleeping arrangements are possible?

Dawning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2004, 11:25:56 PM »
Jenocidal,

Quote
What drives a Narcissistic single mother to feel the need to sleep in the same bed as her adult son? And what causes an adult son (now 18 yrs old) to continue to sleep with his mother? Even when other sleeping arrangements are possible?


Imo,  its very unhealthy enmeshment between the two.  She sees him as a part of herself and she has...to quote Sam..."malignant self-love" which expresses itself in this behaviour.  The son is only 18 - still quite young and she is likely taking advantage of him and his vulnerability being around her.

My mother tried to get me to kiss her on the mouth for years.  I started doubting my mother as a teenager when she wanted me to come into her room and sleep with her.  Sometimes, she would keep me - as a 16 year old - embroiled in some conversation about her (cloaked as her concern about me and my naughty adolescent ways) in her bedroom for hours.  I am always on guard around her and am very nervous even about changing clothes when she is around.  And, in the past, when we've travelled together, I've had to make sure that the hotel accomodation is for twin beds.  

I hope your half-brother can come to an understanding as soon as possible about how detrimental this is for his future growth.  Backpacking around Europe for a few months might be the ticket.   :)

Good for you for getting away from your mother's house.
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Jenocidal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Adult Siblings Who Were Raised in Narcissitic Families
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2004, 11:56:20 PM »
My mother (we call her the warden) used to try to force me to sleep "with the family" in one bed all my life.  But I always pushed for my own space and I think that made my mother deam me as "out of the family unit" , and thusly evil.

My 18 yr old brother is very much a man.  He's had a steady, serious relationship since he was 15 yrs old, maintains a part time job now that school is done and still continued(s) to sleep with mom.

Should I intervene?  And how would an adult sister (I'm 27 yrs old) help enlighten her little brother to their mother's pathology?