Author Topic: Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist  (Read 24332 times)

Anonymous

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« on: August 14, 2004, 04:15:20 AM »
Is it normal or common for a female somatic narcissist to mutate further into a cerebral narcissist later in life even tho they look exceptionally young and attractive, with limited somatic behavior strictly for financial gain, as opposed to how somatic she was when she was younger?

My feeling is that her repeated failures in relationships with men forced her false self to adapt to another form of narcissistic supply, one that would be more fruitful.  She's done it successfully.  surprise - surprise.

My mother has gone from classic somatic narcissism, when I was younger - to classic cerebral narcissism, currently.

Onyx

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2004, 05:32:48 AM »
Interesting thought! I was of the view that Cerebral Narcissists often went through periods of sexual feasts followed by famine for long periods of time, often years. Sex for a cerebral, is something they use only in exceptional circumstances that gives them large amounts of NS. It's almost like they've brought in a 'stunt double' for the sex scenes. The actor (the N) steps to one side, whilst the stunt double (the N) performs the dangerous act......and you know what, they can be REALLY very good at it!

The fact that they have no interest in sex other than using it to gain something, is beside the point. Whatever they're receiving from you....and for a female N it won't be anything to do with your performance :lol: , they will continue to act the part as long as they're satisfied!

For a normal non N person, we enjoy sex for the shear pleasure it gives us and our partner. It's a mutual thing, it's a two way thing. It fulfills our needs, desires, love etc...  For a Cerebral N, these kind of things are totally missing, they don't have them in the same sense. Above all, the word 'mutual' doesn't exist, it really is an 'out of body experience'! The weird thing is that their not really present in the act so to speak. They're their......and I mean loud and clear there :lol: , but not really! You can both be thrashing around having a creat time, but behind it all...there really exists no real desire in them for it!

It's so difficult to explain; it's like having a relationship with your very own and exclussive full time prostitute! She's all over you, but the meter's running!

Sex with these people can be very frequent, you literally can to two 'bunnies' at it morning noon and night ripping the clothes off of each other! This can continue for long periods of time and you'd never suspect something wasn't quite right. Depending how worthwhile the reward you're giving them is, they'll perform until it's worth it to them no more. Then they refer back to type and totally switch off! They have no need for something having had their NS satisfied. Sex is no longer a tool for the job, so they simply put it away in the shed like anyother garden tool!

I would suspect that with age, sex would confirm there desireability to others. A bit like going down the 'catwalk' for a model' Men are still fawning over them thus confirming their attractiveness and padding their ego big time (ego is a huge thing with an N, but it's also their biggest weakness, they're very vulnerable because of it :D )! So in a threeway relationship with an N....you, her and her stunt double, she receives great power and satisfaction to her status as the Queen.

It really is an ego and power trip! You're only relevent as long as you're reflecting something back to her and giving her something in return. It could be as simple of projecting. Lets say you're wealthy....it could even be as simple as you have a nice car...whatever she can project through!

So no, I think that they return to type. Once a cerebral......always! Cerebrals actually don't like physical contact and avoid it. Somantics thrive upon it. Maybe she was a Somantic in the first place, taking a rest for a while:wink:  !

Onyx

phoenix

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2004, 05:40:52 AM »
bye

bunny

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2004, 11:44:30 AM »
What is a cerebral narcissist?

bunny

Onyx

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2004, 01:48:11 PM »
There's lots of material on the web for you to read. I'd avoid Sam Vak material. Altough it's good in part, literally everyone can be described as a full blown NPDer when you read his stuff.

Briefly:

A Cerebral N is as you'll read, the intellectual type. The sort of college/university guy who is way ahead of the rest of the class of dummies, as he see's them. Ther female Cerebral N is the same, but with better make up. Both in my opinion, switch in and out of sexual acts purely as a method of securing something from someone that they percive as special. Someone that they're really projecting through. Someone that makes them look or feel good/special.

For a Somatic N, sex is the spiders web of life. They use image, image, image as a personality weapon to secure what they want. How wonderful they look is sooooo very important to them. Only the best in clothes and perfume etc....will do! They are literally hunters on the prowl looking for their next prey. Once they've locked on to the target, sex and sexuality is the weapon of choice that's deployed....one way of other! They can either play the 'little lost child' or whatever to ensnare....but it the end, sex will be the final result to really hook you in.

Cerebral N's actually don't like being touched or exploring sexual needs as they don't have any! They don't like showing their emotional vunerability and matters connected around sex make them very uneasy. Their performance and sexual drive are issues that may conjur up complaints from their spouse. So sex after a while, becomes a boring chore that they at best, feel obliged to perform for the sake of their partner. They're really doing you a favour as it really is tooooo much and tooooo primative for them.

Their high handed approach will be evident as they 'look down' their noses as you! You think sex is a normal healthy thing for two married people, they think it is show's them up as being mortal, weak, flesh! Hollywood examples of these type of people could be: Merys (the TV sitcom 'Frasier'), Baumgardener (the tv sitcom 'Third Rock from the Sun'), General Patton, Bette Davis, Liz Taylor, Michael Jackson and believe it or not, Mandy Smith. Somatics can be seen as: Marilyn Monroe, Michael Douglas, Joan Collins and many a Porno star :lol:

I actually feel sorry for Somatic N's. On the surface, their personalities ooze sex and sexual confidence. Whilst beneath, they are in fact slaves to their image. It's all a front that has to be maintained because it's often the only way they know how to manipulate the Narcissistic Fixes that they crave! They approach and ensnare their prey through beauty and physique. They are sexual Adonis's and as such, you are lucky to have them in your company. But secretly they too, dislike the sexual image they portray; it is the only weapon of choice that they have to secure the projection or fix that they need!




http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/journal_21.html

http://www.drirene.com/6_nar.htm

phoenix

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2004, 02:24:09 PM »
bye

Onyx

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2004, 02:28:37 PM »
Phoenix

That was a pile of crap that I just wrote. I posted without really thinking fully about what I was writing. Having had a soak in the bath, I've thought of a much better way of explaining it and I'll post it tomorrow.

I'm out tonight  :wink:  so gotta dash.

David

Anonymous

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My mother is totally cerebral now.
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2004, 07:33:55 PM »
[btw - my nickname is Jenocidal - for some reason I can't sign in and post today]

Great post Onyx!  I can assure you, my mother has turned into a fullon cerebral narcissist.  She NEVER liked human contact... touching was strictly "out".  But she liked to harness power over men with her beauty and sexual potency.

These days, now that she is older (44 yrs old), she's gone from sexy cougar conqueress to total cerebral narcissism.  She hates men.  Doesn't want anything to do with men, but is so nonreproachable about taking a job (as she has no job experience due to a life of fearing insubordination due to her narcissism) that she refuses to work.  Welfare doesn't afford the luxeries she requires, so during only DESPERATE times, she uses her sexual potency to get money and "things" from men to further her self-centered needs of becomming a famouns 'talk radio show host" "book author" "rockstar" "movie writer" " of having royal family blood linage"  ... the list goes on.

I've seen a complete transition in behavior over the last 14 years.

My mother is so uncomfortable with intimacy, she can't even hug her own children or tell them she loves them.  For that is weak.  She preeches to her children that having children will ruin our lives.  She blithers on about how she needs no man.. hates men.  And tried to instill those moral rulesets in me (which I've always vehemently opposed).

She seems pretty classic cerebral according to any of the definitons.

Anonymous

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2004, 07:44:31 PM »
oh!  - her narcissistic supply is clearly of a cerebral nature now.  She constantly seeks out reassurance from people in general, all genders.  However, she refuses to work, earn her own way in life... so during those times when she needs major purchases, expenditures of money, she will "lower" herself to sexual relations with one of 3 or so men she will have strung along at any given time, say via the internet.  Aside from that, she wishes to remain single and intellectualize for the remainder of her life (bare in mind she is a young 44).  She boasts to people of her solitude and intellectual ponderings.  She has made a mock radio show on her private website where she "interviews" men and women of intellectual significance to her, then posts the recordings on her site along with her other failed projects that she still tries to peddle.

I have Crohn's disease which I got rather young (7 yrs old), and my mother would take great joy in one-upping the doctor at any turn, even if it meant my health.  She would go out of her way to put me on treatments that were not conventional, anything, as long as it wasn't what the "doctor" ordered.  Then, when I would have serious Crohn's attcks, and needed a ride to emergency, she would REFUSE to take me, force me to call my friends mothers at 2 in the morning to ask them to take me... even if her and I were in the same house.  Doesn't sound like a mother that really cares for her childs health to me.

~Jenocidal

write

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2004, 02:09:38 AM »
I think Sam Vaknin is rubbish too...about every personality defect and disorder crammed into his narcissistic writing.

One thing I do think- is what my husband's psychiatrist told him when she first saw him: everyone is more than any one label.

I have Crohn's disease which I got rather young (7 yrs old), and my mother would take great joy in one-upping the doctor at any turn, even if it meant my health. She would go out of her way to put me on treatments that were not conventional, anything, as long as it wasn't what the "doctor" ordered.

Goodness, I'm sorry you suffered such child abuse/ neglect.

But I'm not surprised if Munchausen's by proxy is related to cluster B personality disorders.
It fits doesn't it.


I doubt there's any schism between cerebral narcissist/ somatic narcissist: if attention and n supply is required, the narcissist will manipulate whatever it takes
( in fact, so will the borderline/ histrionic and antisocial pd too; anything rather than being alone at peace with the self )

She has made a mock radio show on her private website where she "interviews" men and women of intellectual significance to her, then posts the recordings on her site along with her other failed projects that she still tries to peddle.

well, this is always a problem for creative people: are we grandiose on launching our unproven talents or projects, or are we seeking artistic expression.

What made you pick the name jenocidal?
It sounds so violent.
Are you angry?

Onyx

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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2004, 06:02:21 AM »
Morning all

Right...back onto my favorite subject: Narcissism.

Imagine if you will, the latest boy band on stage strutting their stuff. One on lead guitar, one on piano, one on drums and the lead singer bouncing around making love to the microphone. The performance is brill and the audience of 20,000 are rocking. Each member of the band are strumming their stuff like old pro's. Suddenly there's a loud bang from behind the stage and that silk smooth performance comes crashing through the gearbox.

In but a very few seconds, the audience get to find out the shocking truth. You see the boys tried to carry on, but without the backing tape! The drummer actually can't play the drums.....well only at the level of a 5 year old. The lead guitar would get better results plucking his teeth, the pianist performances like a schizophrenic having a bad day......and should stick to 'Three Blind Mice'! As for 'boy blunder', the lead singer, he's tone deaf and sounds like a pack of rabid dogs on heat! Basically they're bloody awful! It's fifth to first gear in one jumps with the gearbox in pieces all over the floor.

It's about image, they look good, but sound shite! They're actors, not musicians....and definately not singers! So why did their legions of wonderful adoring fans buy into them in the first place? Because the bands management are really very good! They've packaged the band and sold it without it ever having to really perform. As long as they jump around the stage, look good and say the right things to interviewers, the management will do the rest. They'll get other to professional singers to sing the song, professional musicians to play the music and above all, a good sound man to record and mix it all to the highest standard!

So the audience are watching the boys perform on stage....but they're not! The guys really performing are probably nowhere near the place. It was all done in studio months ago and at best, the sound man is there tonight and all he did was press to play button! Welcome to the real world of Nacissism and NPD! The truth is that the boys are crap and would have difficulty holding down a job at Burger King flipping burgers. It's a fantasy that has been cleverly designed and sold to you. It's not real...but we swallow it! We pay little heed to what's going on behind the scenes because it's not important anyway! Like all good magicians, our focus is totally on watching him and not what's really happening!

Narcissists with NPD are in some shape or fashion like the above. What you see, is what you've been sold! It isn't the truth and by a bloody long shot! I believe that these people have almost alien like personalities to us! They really are from out of space imitating what they feel we want to believe. It is like the TV programme 'Third Rock from the Sun' in every sense bar one, they're not really aliens from out of space. They're poeple like you and I. But to them, they're unique....special.....brillaint.....god/godess like!

A Cerebral and Somatic NPDer are on and the same. I think both tend to be more one than the other at base, but will probably swing both ways during their lives. At base a Cerebral will tend to use their supposed higher intelligence and academic/business success. Sex is one of their weapons, but not the first they'd use. They'll seduce on brains, power and position. Yes they'll be 'into' sex....but only to acquint you will how wonderful the entire package of their brilliance is. They'd rather intellectually bonk than physically (they give great head  :lol:  so to speak)! The fact that they're probably as thick as shit, will escape their reality! More often than not, they'll avoid physical contact with you over time. They don't really like having to perform for the benefit of another....it's toooo beneath them!!

Both tend to have incredible ego's, so large, aircraft hanger doors won't be big enough for them to get through! Somatics are primarilly about beauty and projected image, so they rely on sex appeal hugely! They seduce upon their reflected image. You see, you smile, they smile cos they see you like them....it's a circle! They listen to what you want...and give it to you. You let them know you like it, they reflect in that! Cerebrals work the same way, but on a more intellectual basis. Both use sex to secure what they want, but the cerebral tends to use it as an aid to other things. A somatic tends to use it purely to support their beauty/image. "Heshe looks great and is fantastic in the sack".......these are the kind of things they love to hear.....they know they've gotten you hooked!

Somatics can be the biggest male/female sluts that you'll ever know! They have no limits and are capable of anything you could conceivably think of behind closed doors....or for that matter come to think of it, anywhere!!! But remember, it's all an act to secure what they're after and will only be performed whilst they continue to want whatever it is!

Cerebrals and Somatics bore easily as time goes by. Having secured what they where after, they less and less pay attention to maintaining the situation. They become lazy! This is were the 'front' drops and the real business of an NPDer starts. Just like the boys on stage, you get to see who they really are!! They in turn don't like the new image you're reflecting to them.......the truth!!! They start to withdraw and to seek alternate supplies for the NS (Narcissistic Supply) that you gave!

Your life becomes hell cos you can't figure out the logic of the situation you find yourself in. You're making the biggest mistake of your life: your're trying to reason and rationalise (rationalize for our American matey's). This is were you will screw your brains up and loose big time. Being fair, will be another one of the things that backfire upon you.

I developed certain type 'guerilla' style tactics that one can use against an NPDer. Remember, ego is everything to them and this makes them incredibly vunerable!!! You can have sooooooo much fun with one if you know how to play them! You can in the end run rings round them....and they'll be blind to it all! :wink:

Important words: No contrition (they don't have any), No compassion (they don't have any), No morals (they don't have any)!

Jenocidal

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2004, 06:42:11 PM »
Onyx:  Another great post.  My mother uses these "recorded interviews" as her narcissistic supply.  All of her projects fail because she fails to complete them.  She always has half a dozen or so "irons in the fire".  She blocks out contact with her family, claims to love social solitude - will only interact with me in her world, she would never lower herself to my World.  I've been living on my own since I was 16.  I was a good kid too.  My mother and I always lived in the same small town.  The only time, in 11 years, that my mother has 'come to my world" and actually visited me at my house was because a tree fell threw her roof during a storm and nearly killed her.  Other than that, she expects me to leave my world, and come sleep with her and my brother in one bed... forever if she had it her way.  But if I don't play into her demands (which I've learned to do), she disconnects even more from me than she already was.

My mother used to be well known for her sexual abilities, I remember that growing up.  In the old days, she hungered for men to reaffirm her sexual potency, so she slept around a lot with YOUNG men.  Since I left home, her polarity shifted.  She now uses her computer and internet connection for her narcissistic supply.  She gets all the adoration she could want and more without actually having to endure fellow humans (whom she boasts she can't stand) with the internet.  She manages to swindle money and "things" out of the men she meets online, often without even having to meet them first.

write:  Are you taking issue with my nickname?  What does my nickname have to do with my interaction on this forum?  Am I seeming angry and or hostile?  My full first name is Jennifer.  JENocidal is my nickname, and that is as far as it goes.  Surely there is more interesting stuff to respond too on this board than my nickname?!

Onyx

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2004, 08:34:54 PM »
Jen

 :lol: Thanks very much for those nice words. The comments about your mother being "well known" amongst the local male population, brought a smile to my face  :) !

Yes Narcissism and NPD are serious concerns, especially for those living with or connect to a sufferer of such! Maybe you mother is a full blown one and if so, it would explain a lot about your feelings. It's a bit rich expecting you to sleep with your brother! Has this woman no idea?

This might help you a little if she is suffering with NPD:

A loaded Colt 45 with a full magazine in case she misses herself the first time round! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: !

No seriously....sorry I'm just joshing with the above......here is a few things that may be helpfull and it mainly concerns you:

Firstly, you're probably a very fair, rational, reasoning and logical sort of person. You probably feel empathy, compassion, even pity and sadness for anothers plight. All normal stuff for a person who doesn't have NPD. However this kind of stuff actually makes you vunerable to an NPDers ways and methods of operating. For a person with NPD, if you have these personality traits, then your a 'lamb to the slaughter.' The closer you get to one of them, the worse it gets for you.

You've been exposed to you mother for many years now. It's probably only since you moved away from her and experienced what is 'normal' from living around other people, that you've become angry at what you had to put up with for so many years! That's normal too. Anyway, because you're probably a nice person who's realised that they've been conned (along with a number of other male saps on the net) for sooooo long, you're also trying to get her to mend her ways. Another mistake, cos you don't stand a cat in hells chance honey!

So you're angry and frustrated.......what's a girl in your situation supposed to do? Well the answers are a plenty. Run, never speak to her again, face her and tell her what you think of her.....etc! All of which might achieve a tiny amount, but mostly it would be like a butterfly biteing upon an elephants arse.....pointless! It just doesn't wash with them....they really couldn't give a rats arse! So why give them the satisfaction of seeing you upset in the first place?

On the other hand, you could be naughty and have some fun with them 8)
Now this might sound strange to you, but the best way to achieve anything with them is to fight fire with fire. Instead of winding yourself up and getting nowhere, why not play to their weakness's? For example, their ego is just about everything to them: it's also their underbelly :wink: and it's very thin!

Do exactly the same to them as they would do to another.....even you! First establish what you want and then deliver! Instead of carping at them for their behaviour, praise them! Tell them how gifted they are, how insightfull and knowledgeable they are! How strikingly good looking she is....and how lucky any man would be to win her (eeeeyuke)! Play to her ego. Ask her advice and hang on every word she utters as being gospel! Tell how she's changed your life for the better! Have a bloody good laugh watching her cosy up to you and reward you! Use her and laugh out loudly and continiously!

I say the above for good reason. You are wasting you life trying to correct or even get her to accept her condition.....it just won't happen.....not for real anyway! So while you're bursting a gut trying to push a pea up a very long and rocky hill  with your nose trying to save her.......why do so when you could relax taking the urine out of her at her own game!

You're her daughter.....use it! At least allow her the chance to see what its like to be used! She'll never suspect.....Narcissists with NPD are soooooooo naive......they are unbelieveably child like when their egos are being padded. It's their one and only open weakness and you'll expose them on it time after time.

Stop crying! Stop trying to put right what can't be! Have some fun for once! Make up the most unbelievable bullshit of a story, cry as they do and go for the kill! Whether it's money or just the pure pleasure of seeing them squirm.......have fun honey.....cos it's going to be at their expense.....and that'll be a first :lol:

Onyx

.....and now for my bed time over here in blighty.

PS....it's raining here.....oh there's a surprise

Jenocidal

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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2004, 09:22:45 PM »
Another great post, and so eloquent too.  :)

I agree 100% with everything you've said.  I actually already know most of her vulnerbilities, and can effectively stifle her rage.  But I've grown tired of her insolance.  Her and I are no longer on speaking terms.  It would take her finding God for me to reconsider my position.  And I've come to terms with it.  I wanted it.  I did this one week before I found out that narcissism was a personality disorder that was in the psychiatry diagnostic mannual.

All our family members always thought that she was unique in her "madness", including myself.  But now I see how pervasive NPD really is; it's a lot to take in. hehe.  Now that I understand narcissism I am able to apply that to the family dynamics... and I am able to see why things are the way they are.

I'm in my first year of college, focusing on behavioral sciences, so this sort of thing fascinates the hell out of me.  :)

-rain?  we haven't had rain here in weeks.  tinder dry summer.

phoenix

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Somatic Narcissist turned Cerebral Narcissist
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2004, 01:57:35 AM »
bye