Learning that the N's in my life cannot define me...

[Gabben]

unless I let them.


This past weekend I felt angry. Angry at N-saint, angry at my Nmom, angry at the people who have believed N-saints lies. Angry at the issues here on the board but really those were far in the background compared the real pain in my heart.

Through my anger I was able to see that I have a deep yearning to undo the wrongs I've suffered. This no doubt stems from my childhood pains of wanting to undo the hurt and wrongs of my childhood. It is that same feeling/issue of helplessness that I have been experiencing. Yet, there would absolutely be no way that I could be honest and self-respecting, if when reflecting on the wrongs that others have done to me, I also look at the wrongs that I have done to others. I believe that what comes around goes around and I have been hit in the go around...I'm far from perfect
(I'm not talking about what has happened on this board)

So I ask myself -- what is God trying to tell me?  Well, this is what I think, God wants me to grieve and fully mourn the losses in my childhood. This is not just for me this is for others too because the more I can hurt and heal the more I can care and respond to the pain of others, God knows how much others in this world hurt and how much we ALL need compassion.

The other anger is my selfishness. The root of anger is self-seeking. Therefore, I have to dig even deeper and get to the bottom of self, die to self.

I realize that if there is no self (myself) to be hurt then people can walk all over me, target me, shove me, outcast me, dish me, etc... as long as I can look at them, extending respect, seeing that they are just wounded and hurting on some level too then I can be free from anger and free!

The root of all anger is self -- My goal is to work harder on eliminating the selfish parts of me that get in the way of not fully accepting others -- This can be done.


However, I will always stand my ground an speak my truth, hopefully, with more gentleness, for the sake of righteousness. I may never know the person who's life I could help or who's sanity I could help spare by speaking up and standing up.

[Gabben]

This weekend I realized that I have allowed a lifetime or, childhood, of my mom's opinions to influence my self-esteem.

It was if my mom's N thinking penetrated into me or her emotional abuse when she projected herself and her ideas onto me.

Actually, that is it. I think that not growing up with strong emotional boundaries has made it easy for me to allow others into my head.

One of the most painful things has been reflecting on how N saint was convinced that all that I did was for N supply.  N saint, for two years of therapy, was consistently projecting onto me. (This was in therapy, when you rely on your counselor to see you clearly, more clearly than you see yourself...what a sham!!)  I could feel her despise. Now I realize that she despised herself and she was seeing in me the splint or split off parts of herself. Her and I are not that far apart except that I am fully aware of my N traits as well as I do not manipulate for N supply. I lost my veneer over 20 years ago in college when I was told to look at me, guess what.... I did. It was not pleasant, but I grew and resolved to never fool anyone ever again. That is why I have such a love for truth.

I am also capable of love where N saint can only desire power for those who do not love thirst for power.

So what I am trying to say here is that the more I grieve the loss of self the more I am gaining a stronger sense of self -- a wall of boundary that says...................no one can define me because I know who I am and I will not allow the mud slinging in......

It feels better but I still hurt...it is as if years of taking my mom's projections have suddenly come to the surface.

The hope is that this means that I will not be attracting mudslingers...hope? Or, at least, I will not be triggered by them ...now that is growth!

Lise

[Certain Hope]

I think that not growing up with strong emotional boundaries has made it easy for me to allow others into my head.

This was true for me, as well, Lise. And even if it was "just" a childhood of this sort of intrusion, that set the trend for a lifetime... till now!

Her and I are not that far apart except that I am fully aware of my N traits as well as I do not manipulate for N supply. I lost my veneer over 20 years ago in college when I was told to look at me, guess what.... I did. It was not pleasant, but I grew and resolved to never fool anyone ever again. That is why I have such a love for truth.

As you know, I believe you... and in my view, and my experience, you are one of the least manipulative people I've ever encountered. And I know what it feels like when someone's manipulating me for N supply! Oh, boy, do I ever... feels like slow death, like going through the motions, pretending to be on the same page when all along it's just play-acting.
No, it is just exactly your love for truth which has always shone out to me, Lise... and it's a very rare quality indeed, at least in my life, it is.

I am also capable of love where N saint can only desire power for those who do not love thirst for power.

Never though about it in these terms, but you're right... whether it's power via controlling others, or by accumulating wealth and stuff, or by seducing a string of victims in order to feel desired... it's all the same, from the same source - - a lust for power. wow.

So what I am trying to say here is that the more I grieve the loss of self the more I am gaining a stronger sense of self -- a wall of boundary that says...................no one can define me because I know who I am and I will not allow the mud slinging in......

It feels better but I still hurt...it is as if years of taking my mom's projections have suddenly come to the surface.

The hope is that this means that I will not be attracting mudslingers...hope? Or, at least, I will not be triggered by them ...now that is growth!

Yes, that is growth   And I don't think you'll be getting tangled up with many more mudslingers, because you'll spot their capacity for that longgg before it gets to that point.
I know that even virtual strangers can sling their share of mud, but as you walk in the integrity of your own heart and practice considering the source, that garbage isn't such a big deal anymore.  One thing's for sure... in Christ, there IS a way to develop a thick skin and yet retain a soft heart!

Love to you,
Carolyn

[Izzy_*now*]

Gabben,

I agree about not having boundaries, not being told/taught what they are, from early years is what has played a very large part of what made us the way we are today.

All we needed was to be assertive all those growing up years......been taught what assertive was............stood up for ourselves ......know what it was that was right for us....................... and insist upon it, and WOW!!! I think !!! Life would have been far different.

Instead, I, for instance, never knew and I was ganged up on, taunted, ridiculed, and I ought to have run to my mother, but would she have known what to say? I doubt it. As she had no boundaries. Neither did my father.

This is a sign of the times and I bear no hard will against them, now that I know and I was the same with my daughter..............not teaching her boundaries, but I think instead, I was enforcing her boundaries for her, and she had NO idea what was going on.


She does now!

It's generational and we must find some compassion......................somewhere............or go insane!

Izzy

[Gabben]

Hi Izzy,

Thanks for your post. It was good to see that this stuff touched someone else too.

I see growth in you lately.

"This is a sign of the times and I bear no hard will against them, now that I know and I was the same with my daughter..............not teaching her boundaries, but I think instead, I was enforcing her boundaries for her, and she had NO idea what was going on."

I love your honesty and your truth seeking and that you allow yourself as a parent to acknowledge mistakes you have made. In my opinion, a good parent is one that makes many mistakes but keeps trying, no matter what, out of selfless love. You have selfless love in you Izzy.

"Instead, I, for instance, never knew and I was ganged up on, taunted, ridiculed, and I ought to have run to my mother, but would she have known what to say? I doubt it. As she had no boundaries. Neither did my father."

This must have been so painful and to some degree mostly likely still is. The anger that we can repress, when those we love are betraying us, is so raw as it comes up but, Izzy, it is so OK to feel it, own and embrace the tears behind it....I'm with you.

[Gabben]

Carolyn,

Thank you for your post on this thread.

What is so wonderful is that I can see my healthy boundaries in play simply as a start by standing up for myself and putting up a firm wall to the mud, even if at first that wall is a bit loud and harsh...boundaries have to start somewhere. I think, usually, when I am first setting boundaries I can be too firm.

But I always remember what bean told me once that boundaries are silent. Just like when my roommates both moved on after I made my mind up to not put up with there silent bullying. I never had to say anything...they just knew I was not going to take their crap. But they were not full N's they were just intimidators. Full N's are in it to win and therefore I have to have loud and forceful boundaries. But now I think the best boundary is just to ignore and or run!!!!

Perhaps this boundary is a bit more difficult, not allow the mud in. To not allow myself to even be bothered by the P's and N's...now that will elevate me to sainthood, fast

Yesterday before I left, I wrote you a long response here but once again I timed out and lost my work. I am getting better at copying my writing before I hit post, just in case.

"Never though about it in these terms, but you're right... whether it's power via controlling others, or by accumulating wealth and stuff, or by seducing a string of victims in order to feel desired... it's all the same, from the same source - - a lust for power. wow."

Perhaps it is power that people who cannot love seek in order to fill the emptiness they feel inside created by never feeling loved or valued? If they, the N's, can control and influence then it makes up for the lie they buy in their minds that they are nothing.

[Certain Hope]

You're welcome, Lise... my pleasure!
It's exciting to me, to see a post from you, because I know that you'll make me think along genuine lines - - - the stuff that real change and growth is made of.

And I know what you mean about establishing boundaries... and how they may seem a bit strong at first. Part of that, I think, is simply because we're not accustomed to hearing ourselves say, "Whoa!" (as in "Cut that out!!")

We live in the midst of nowhere, at a dead end, surrounded by a river and unused pasture/woods, with a private road behind which only goes to one house.
Well, a short while ago, I was out back with one of my dogs (the pony sized one - lol) when a man appeared, walking down the road... and my ponygirl didn't much care for the looks of him. No idea who he is or what he's doing back here, unless he walked all the way across the pastureland from the road, a mile or so away. SO - - he has a mild encounter with my ferocious sounding marshmallow pup, before she hears me hollering "Biscuit!!!" and comes to check it out. When he gets nearer to where I'm standing, this guy says (in a not-too-pleasant tone), "I didn't know whether she was gonna bite me!"   And I said,

"Well... you never can tell!"

Shocked myself. Generally, I'd have been all apologetic and explained that she wouldn't harm a flea.... but this time, what came out was a valid expression of just exactly what I'd been thinking - - -  it's fine by me if this guy thinks my dog might just bite him.     

Anyhow, that's my story of the day re: my own new awareness of my boundaries along with my ability to express them.

 


Hugs,
Carolyn

P.S.  I think you're right about people who don't know love looking to fill that gap.... often with some addiction.... and sadly for the rest of us, sometimes they're addicted to power and control.

[Gabben]

We live in the midst of nowhere, at a dead end, surrounded by a river and unused pasture/woods, with a private road behind which only goes to one house.
Well, a short while ago, I was out back with one of my dogs (the pony sized one - lol) when a man appeared, walking down the road... and my ponygirl didn't much care for the looks of him. No idea who he is or what he's doing back here, unless he walked all the way across the pastureland from the road, a mile or so away. SO - - he has a mild encounter with my ferocious sounding marshmallow pup, before she hears me hollering "Biscuit!!!" and comes to check it out. When he gets nearer to where I'm standing, this guy says (in a not-too-pleasant tone), "I didn't know whether she was gonna bite me!"   And I said,

"Well... you never can tell!"

As I was reading your story above about the stranger and your dog and I thought of the movie 'No Country for Old Men.' Not to scare you...but where you live sounds peaceful and it brought me joy to imagine the landscape. I am a country girl at heart myself, growing up in Boise of all places.

I love dogs.

It is funny how when we are going through a growth spurt or just have been through one that our simple daily encounters can be the real telling of our changes within. It really does come down to our automatic responses and the moment when we see ourselves responding differently without effort is the moment that we know our growth.

Hugs,
Lise

[Certain Hope]

Hi, Lise,

Movies are one of my many areas of ignorance, so I'm not familiar with the storyline of that one... although the name rings a bell, from tv ads, I guess.
Just finally saw the Star Wars movies on tv, a couple weeks ago (well, a good part of them)... for the first time ever! 
Where was I all those years? Not in control of the remote control, that's for sure... and we never went to see a show.
So now, I'm catching up on all those lost years and maybe by the time I'm 85 I'll be up to speed... lol.
Anyhow, yes - it's very peaceful here... like a wildlife sanctuary (especially all of the birds!) and quite safe. Especially with my ponygirl and her deep, ferocious bark... and strangers who aren't sure whether or not she just might bite them  Ahh, I have a weird sense of humor, but that did tickle me.

I love dogs, too... and critters of all sorts, in fact. We have 3 dogs - 2 little and 1 extra large    If we had the finances, this place would be a zoo. What am I saying...? ... it practically is a zoo now! But the dogs are my favorites (although the ferret ranks a close second - lol - he is a clown). The bird is quite a character, too. He's a cockatiel, named Micah. Got him for myself as a 40th bday present and he's the only critter around whose been through all of the worst with me (and still loves me).

Sometimes those everyday encounters show me way more immaturity left in myself than I want to see, but I think that even those times are occasions to practice forgiving ourselves for not being perfect (yay!) and to remember how very much each one of us is dependent on God's grace. When I catch myself doin something really right, nobody's more surprised than I am, at this point... lol. Truth. Not that I never did right things before, just they were for all the wrong reasons... mainly out of fear. That's what's gone now, for the most part... the fear.
Sometimes still, I get afraid of myself - knowing just how far down I can slip.... but since I didn't pull myself up out of the dumps in the first place, it's getting easier not to worry about all that.

I hope your tomorrow is bright and shiny, Lise.

Love,
Carolyn

We live in the midst of nowhere, at a dead end, surrounded by a river and unused pasture/woods, with a private road behind which only goes to one house.
Well, a short while ago, I was out back with one of my dogs (the pony sized one - lol) when a man appeared, walking down the road... and my ponygirl didn't much care for the looks of him. No idea who he is or what he's doing back here, unless he walked all the way across the pastureland from the road, a mile or so away. SO - - he has a mild encounter with my ferocious sounding marshmallow pup, before she hears me hollering "Biscuit!!!" and comes to check it out. When he gets nearer to where I'm standing, this guy says (in a not-too-pleasant tone), "I didn't know whether she was gonna bite me!"   And I said,

"Well... you never can tell!"

As I was reading your story above about the stranger and your dog and I thought of the movie 'No Country for Old Men.' Not to scare you...but where you live sounds peaceful and it brought me joy to imagine the landscape. I am a country girl at heart myself, growing up in Boise of all places.

I love dogs.

It is funny how when we are going through a growth spurt or just have been through one that our simple daily encounters can be the real telling of our changes within. It really does come down to our automatic responses and the moment when we see ourselves responding differently without effort is the moment that we know our growth.

Hugs,
Lise

[Gabben]

Anyhow, yes - it's very peaceful here... like a wildlife sanctuary (especially all of the birds!) and quite safe. Especially with my ponygirl and her deep, ferocious bark...

Sounds wonderful...I'm happy that you are graced by nature and peaceful surroundings.

I love dogs, too... and critters of all sorts, in fact. We have 3 dogs - 2 little and 1 extra large    If we had the finances, this place would be a zoo. What am I saying...? ... it practically is a zoo now! But the dogs are my favorites (although the ferret ranks a close second - lol - he is a clown). The bird is quite a character, too. He's a cockatiel, named Micah. Got him for myself as a 40th bday present and he's the only critter around whose been through all of the worst with me (and still loves me).

This brought a smile to my face to read about your beloved animals. I can just picture the ferret, they are so full of personality!

Animals are our earthy guardian angels in that they reflect the love of heaven in the way they look at us...they never judge our flaws and shortcomings, they can't, it is not in there nature to judge!

Not that I never did right things before, just they were for all the wrong reasons... mainly out of fear. That's what's gone now, for the most part... the fear.
Sometimes still, I get afraid of myself - knowing just how far down I can slip.... but since I didn't pull myself up out of the dumps in the first place, it's getting easier not to worry about all that.

That same thought has been running through my mind too...Christ found me and saved me....I just responded!

Today is better, thank you.

Lise