overreaction, or not?

[tigerlily]

Bunny, thank you for asking that question.  You're absolutely right- why the hell should I be feeling embarrassed?  I didn't do anything- she did.  There I go again, trying to be responsible for her.  Old habits die hard.  As a matter of fact, I have already gotten two responses from my cousins telling me not to feel embarrased because they know exactly what I am dealing with.  
I am going to think about that a lot more and see just how much I tend to do that.  I am starting to see more and more how my mother spent her whole life trying to get others to take responsibility for things she did.  It's sickening.  She would make excuses about stuff she didn't do or know because "no one ever taught her to do that."  I remember that if someone WOULD atempt to explain something to her she would then say she couldn't remember all that or she didn't understand it and then brush it off.  If she made a mistake she would say it was because someone else made her do it.  If she had an argument with my father she would say it was my fault in some way.  Her bad moods were my fault.  Her losing her temper was my fault (or my dad's).  I feel so bad about the way she made such a negative environment for him too- he was a loving, generous person but she was so critical of him that he gradually shut down over all those years until he was pretty depressed at the end.

[Anonymous]

Seeker wrote

"There were TWO people, the public X and the private X. I knew BOTH! So mind your own business!!"


Great line- will remember to use on the next person that tells me the N is so wonderful and what's the matter with me.

Tigerlily -

My N MIL is doing the same thing to my father-in-law.  I think I was supposed to be next.

Max

[tigerlily]

I have a first name that is actually two put together, like Mary Jane or Betty Lou, which I've always hated.  I decided yesterday that I was going to drop the first one and start going by the second because it feels better suited to me.  I remember when my Nmother used to scream at me for something she would say my name in such a condescending way that I really got to hate it.  Using my second name only makes me feel like I chose it for myself, it eliminates those old negative memories about it, and it makes me feel I am starting over and owning myself instead of just being an accessory to her life.  I have let all my friends and relatives know and they all like it.  This has made me feel really good.

[OnlyMe]

Hi TigerLily,

What a fabulous idea to give the New You a New Name!  That is Brilliant.  

I have been thinking of doing the same thing, because my name has several variations, and some I like, and some I don't - needless to say, the ones that nmomsy uses, I hate - for I become her child again, subconsiously, I suppose.  (She loves to tell me that I am her 'child' and that there is no stronger love on this earth than a mother's love for her child - yeah right - does that love include all the abuse?  No wonder I have a hard time trusting.  I digress.)

So, to give ourselves a new name helps to mark another boundary, saying that This Is Who We Are, From This Day Forward!  And don't mess with us!
I'm heading out with a list of things to do, and will be thinking of your Hugely positive idea, and might do the same.



Once again, I am so grateful to have found this chat site, for I no longer feel so 'all alone', and that in itself is so very healing.

Thank you, 'Lily'    

[tigerlily]

Yes, you're so right- it really feels so liberating and like beginning anew!  I have felt so free the past day since I thought of doing this.  I'm not even going to tell her I did this because I have no wish to share the new me, plus she will have some comment about it which I will always remember. She is now in a nursing home and has no part of my life, other than my weekly visits to her, so it really feels like I can leave some things behind and start looking toward the future in a different way.  It really makes a difference when one can leave the crap behind in the cobwebs where it belongs.

[tigerlily]

Hi all
I was thinking and reading about all the issues on this board today, and something occurred to me.  I always have felt so bad about the fact that my Nmother used to try to drive a wedge between my father and me by her badmouthing me and putting me in a bad light with him.  I always  worried that he may have bought into all that garbage.  But then I realized her bashing wasn't just limited to me.  She did the exact same thing - badmouthing him to me.  Even at a young age I recognized it for what it was- a mean spirited and jealous woman trying to make him look bad in my eyes-.  BUT IT NEVER WORKED!  I was able to see for myself that he was a decent person who never would wish me any ill will.  The big realization came to me today that he probably never bought into her crap about me either.  So, as she was unsuccessful in ruining my good feelings about him, she was probably just as unsuccessful in hurting his good feelings about me.  This gives me a great deal of comfort.  Does this make sense to those of you that may have had the same situation?  If it does, I hope it gives you the same comfort.

[Max]

Tigerlily

I had the same experience that you just related - except that I am the father and I have two daughters.  When I filed for divorce, I didn't realize that they felt they had been badly treated.  I thought I was the one she focused on.  When my daughters and I compared notes, we realized we had all been had.  It really was there to see all along - we just were so blinded by her careful manipulation.  

Any chance your father will wake up?

Max

[tigerlily]

Hi Max
Sorry it took me so long to reply, but my home computer is broken, so I have to wait until I can get to work to use this computer.  My father died some time ago.  So I am just left with "what ifs".
Over the weekend my mother called me many times telling me I needed to drop everything and come immediately to the nursing home because her pajama elastic was too tight around her waist and she couldn't breathe.  I told her I was babysitting my two grandchildren and couldn't come until the next day, and she said "well, take them home."  Like I would take them to an empty house and dump them there.  They are six and eight years old.  Why the hell did she think I was babysitting them- no one was there.  But that didn't seem to matter.  Then she started calling and saying I had to bring her some ice cream because "her throat was closing up and she couldn't swallow."  I told her again I couldn't come until tomorrow.  She said "Well, what are daughters for?"  I was very proud of the fact that I kept my cool and stuck to my guns. The next day I went up there and found her sitting just as sweet as you please, watching television, breathing just fine, wearing a different pair of pj's that she had had all the time, and talking like everything was just fine. I am learning to not respond to all the guilt producing behavior.  It takes a lot of energy sometimes, but it is so much better this way.

[Anonymous]

Tigerlily

Sorry that you weren't able to resolve things with  your father before he passed away.  The demands your mother made on you these last few days are really amazingly blunt.  Your patience and tolerance is beyond comprehension at this point.  

I'm sure it's more difficult to block an N-parent out of ones life compared to a spouse that one can divorce.

If I hadn't started to stand up for myself and seen the reality of how ugly my Nw could really be, I would never have woken up.  I was a perfect victim and N supplier - she just eventually overplayed her hand.  I think I could have gone on for many more years had she just been a little more selective in her abuse.  (I've been married 28) If your father had realized what she was doing to you, and he was at all like me,  he would have done something about it. He just couldn't see it because he was a victim himself.

Hugs
Max

[tigerlily]

Hi Max
You're right.  He worked long hours so he didn't see all the crap going on at home.  And the whippings she gave me (averaged 1 - 2 x a week) never would happen if he was home.  She would take all her frustrations out on me.  I remember one time when I was 15 years old I was allowed to spend a week at a cousin's house in a bigger city about 300 miles away.  My cousin was a wonderful, charming, very charismatic man and he and his wife had a daughter my age.  He reminded me a great deal of Robert Preston (from the movie "Music Man").  He always treated me with a great deal of respect and warmth and was a tremendous amount of fun to be with.  I remember him with love to this day because he gave me the validation I needed so badly as a child.  Anyway, I had some money left over from gifts I had received for my birthday.  He suggested that I fly home instead of taking a Greyhound bus because I had never flown and it would be a new experience. That was a big deal in those days. So I did and really enjoyed it.  I called my mother to come and pick me up at the airport.  When she got there she was livid that I did something without asking her first.  She ranted and raved all the way home.  She expected to have my dad bawl me out because she told him about it.  When I got home he said "I hear that you had a chance to fly home.  I think that's wonderful.  I would have done the same thing when I was young if I had had the chance."  I was so grateful to him for sticking up for me.  My mother's jaw hit the floor.  He completely took the wind out of her sails.  She never said another word about it.  He would do things like that for me to subtley let me know he was on my side.  I will never forget that.
But you are right- he was not aware that she made him a victim too.  Plus, in those days, one just "made the best of things" and took what was dished out.

[Discounted Girl]

did any of you ever have a sibling pick on you or join in (without even knowing they were doing it) on the abuse? My brother used to take joy if he could "report" some infraction of the rules I had commited. If they told me to stay off the phone while they were gone, he would run into the house and touch the phone and tell them if it was warm. He would inspect the dishes I washed and run and tell if he found any food still on them. If I walked on the carpet with my shoes on he would run and tell. But I think he did it to be on their good side.

When we would get whipped with my Dad's belt, I can still hear my brother crying and pleading, "please, Daddy, no, please don't." Even then I knew it was wrong. I don't think I begged -- I know I cried, but I am pretty sure I didn't plead. One time she made me stand with my nose in a ring she drew on the wall and she drew it too high and I stood on my toes for a long time -- summer no AC -- and I fainted. And there was the time when I was 16, she pushed me down and straddled me, placing her knees on my arms -- I could not move, I was totally trapped. She was not even punishing me, there was no trouble going on, she just jumped on me and held me down and laughed at me. I remember feeling such fury and hate, while my brother and Dad watched and laughed.

[tigerlily]

No, discounted girl, I was an only child.  I don't know what is worse- having your Nmother come down on you and you being the only one she would focus on, or having a brother or sister to deal with too.  (only I always said it probably was a blessing she didn't have any more kids because , firstly, I wouldn't wish her on anyone else, and secondly, she would have probably been twice as nuts because she would have had more of her jealousy and resulting need to control to inflict on us.

[tigerlily]

Maybe I should have started another topic titled "UNDER- reaction or not?"  My mother took a turn for the worse last Monday and passed away.  She would have been 89 in December.  She was totally cognizant until 2 days before she died.  And then I spent two days watching her while she was unconscious.  I don't like to see anyone suffer so I think it was sort of a blessing that the last 2 days she was unaware.  But I thought to myself while I was sitting there that her life was such an incredible waste when it came to her family because she had had a very nice man for a husband (my father who she beat down emotionally until he had no happiness left.  She had a daughter (me) who, like any other child born into this world, just wanted the unconditional love and acceptance of a mother that she could trust - but she blew that too, by making herself the only important person in her life.  As a result, I know she couldn't have been a happy person.  And she made the two most important people in her life suffer and feel miserable about life and about themselves.  After her death all these friends and relatives started calling me and telling me that they were so sorry about my loss.  Little did they know that my loss ocurred many, many years ago when I got old enough to be a threat to her (in her eyes) and she began her verbal and physical assaults on me, destroying the trust and confidence I had in her.  I heard these words of consolation from these friends and relatives and almost felt like a bad person for not having the feelings they assumed I must be having.  I say almost, because this group and the readings I have done about narcissistic parents have helped me come a long way.  A year ago I most certainly would have felt guilty, but I understand a lot more now.  Any sadness I do feel comes for what might have been if I had had a normal relationship with her.  Maybe I am in denial now or something, but all I really feel right now is a sense of quiet relief that I won't have to brace myself and protect myself in order to deal with her anymore.  And, as I saw her after her death, I did feel a slight sense of pity for her because she could have had a more rewarding life if she had reached out to others rather than kept her arms around herself.

[Lizbeth]

Tigerlily, sorry about the loss of your mother, the mother you should have had.  I know how that feels.  Though it is a great relief that their manipulations and abuse have ended, it is almost harder to deal with their death.  The death of my schizophrenic mother 3 years ago and my father's selfish behavior afterward drove me to see a shrink for the first time in my life.  I was just so angry.  

There is no way to grieve properly because there are no good memories, so many conflicting emotions to deal with.  I ended up grieving the loss of the mother I never had but should have, that was the best I could do in the end.

[OnlyMe]

Tigerlily,
Sincere sympathy to you during this difficult time, after the loss of your mother.  I hope that your nmom's passing will bring you some peace.  My NDad died in June, and when the minister asked me for fond memories, I couldn't think of any.  As the only child, I am sure he found it hard to understand.
Be kind to yourself for the next while.  I seemed to have had a delayed reaction a few weeks later - partly because I would never have the chance to try to earn his love, ever again - and how sick is that?  I spent my entire life trying to please him, and the heaviest pain was that I didn't have just one more chance.  True Nparent-child relationship.
We mourn the dream of having a real family.  No matter how hard we tried, it just was never to be, through no fault of ours.  
The biggest comfort I have felt, and I hope it will be the same for you : finally, the pain will now end.  They can't hurt us any more.  We just feel empty for a while.