Narcissistic Parent Thoughts

[Anonymous]

Hi Les,

Thanks, yes, I steer clear like a bullfighter in the ring--I never take him on directly.  Sure disaster if you do.  

And yes, arrested development is a good way to think of N.  I observe many Ns who act like immature teenagers, self-absorbed, demanding, not sure of their goals, but just want whatever you're having/getting.

Also, one of my character indicators is how people feel about kids: their own, the kids of their friends (to a lesser degree, because of course the children of their important friends are worthy), and kids you just happen to see at the playground.  How hands-on or hands-off they are.  My father has no ability or desire to enter a child's world to spend time with them.  There is no world except the one in his head.  I have heard a few people say pretty mean, cutting things about children who were minding their own business and it always blows me away.  

Well peace y'all!  Seeker

[Anonymous]

My NMother went to dinner at a friends’ house, with other friends and their children. One of the young male children took some food meant for sharing and said “Mmm, I’m having all of this!” My mother gave him the ‘evil eye’ and said “Watch it buster!”. She thinks that was okay. She revels in how everyone went silent.

She was being a child with him. What’s amazing is that none of the other adults intervened. Everyone kept quiet, embarrassed. Poor child must have been scared of her. And no-one put him – or her – right. So he thinks it’s okay for adults to treat children like that. Why didn’t someone say something? Like “Oops little Johnny, I don’t think that lady liked you wanting all those to yourself did she? She probably wants them all to herself! Let’s share them out shall we?”. I wasn’t there or I would have done something. Kids need explanation, not confusing silence.

[Discounted Girl]

Yes, they are all the center of their own universe, like babies and young children. But, I would never confuse this personality disorder with a physiological problem like retardation of development. When a brat grows up they can still choose to be kind and consider others. The NQueenmother used to throw the biggest tantrums and fits ever imaginable. When I was a kid I was embarrassed for her. It did not matter to her how awful she looked rolling around on the floor crying and screaming, throwing things at everyone. She would do it in public too, and in front of my friends, making me ashamed. Then she could turn if off in a split second, just amazing how quick she could flip back and forth --- psycho bitch.

[bunny]

She was being a child with him. What’s amazing is that none of the other adults intervened. Everyone kept quiet, embarrassed.

This happens all the time at my parents. They scare their grandchildren (my niece, nephew) by getting angry with them over little things. I intervene and of course my parents get very angry with me for doing so. Better for them to turn on me than on children. BTW the children's parents don't defend them or intervene. Just sit there like bumps on a log.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi,

"bumps on a log".  We did that for years at family gettogethers.  We were struck mute by years and years of conditioning to "be nice" "polite" that is "shut up, stupid".  I don't know why we were so stupid to the fact that the N didn't feel the need to be nice or polite but expected us to take the high road all the time.    Other times I was literally struck speechless by what I was witnessing.  When in doubt, I clam up...still do.  Ugh.

Seeker

[OnlyMe]

I'm another bump on the log.  And I hate it, but I still sit there, quietly.  I guess it is all the N training, and that I finally realize that it is pointless to say a word.  Safer to stay quiet, and avoid the darts.

Even though I seemed to survive being with my nM on the weekend, my energy was completely drained.  It has taken me days to feel like writing a note to keep in touch with you all.  And I really resent losing that many days, basically feeling drained.  I still get all my stuff done, but it takes all my energy, if you know what I mean.

I feel that the theory of the N having part of their emotional growth arrested around six years of age makes sense, and it helps me cope with some of the antics, when I observe them from that point of view.  I saw a few episodes clearly.  One temper tantrum was hilarious when I looked at it from a childish perspective.

Les, I laughed thinking of those bunny ears!  Here is my six-year-old NM story from the weekend :
We had gone out to dinner with relatives, and of course I had to tell NM a hundred times how lovely she looked. It is always like this : NN- Does this suit look nicer on me than the other outfit? Me- It looks lovely. NM- Yes, it does, doesn't it?!  and on and on and on, broken record.  Well, at the end of the weekend, as I was getting into the car, she grabbed me by the shoulders and said "Tell me one more time how lovely I looked on Saturday night!"  I said "I told you a hundred times already" and she replied, practically twirling her hair with her finger, just like a 6yr old : "I forgot what you said, please tell me just one more time."   It was then that all sorts of bells and whistles went off in my head - she is a little girl, inside!  But, I didn't dance this time.  Instead, I said "Why don't you tell me how lovely I looked, instead?! (as if that would ever happen!) and I laughed, got in the car and waved good-bye!  And this time, I didn't cry all the way home, and that is a huge step.  

It is tough having a senior NParent, and I appreciate having the understanding of all of you, and knowing that I am not on this journey alone.  We can make it!!!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing this Only Me:

I said "Why don't you tell me how lovely I looked, instead?! (as if that would ever happen!) and I laughed, got in the car and waved good-bye! And this time, I didn't cry all the way home, and that is a huge step.

I smiled a lot reading this. I felt good for you. Huge step! What a great voice you've got. Was it 'easy' to do that? To decide to assert your self? i.e. was the effort to do that greater than the effect you had on yourself, or was the effect greater than the effort involved?

Doing this, not taking their stuff and not taking it with humour, is so great. Especially the humour part, it deflects and removes any anger or aggression. Fantastic!

[OnlyMe]

Was it 'easy' to do that? To decide to assert your self? i.e. was the effort to do that greater than the effect you had on yourself, or was the effect greater than the effort involved?

 

It was the first time I have been able to do this, to be able to laugh inside at something NM has done, but, the effort it took for me to do so has left me like a limp rag.  It has taken years to reach this point, and I still have tons of painful baggage that I drag around with me.
But at least it's a step in the right direction.

[Anonymous]

Hi again OM: thanks for your reply. I read your post again and saw at the top

I finally realize that it is pointless to say a word. Safer to stay quiet, and avoid the darts.

but even so, you spoke up, you found your voice. Maybe it's *safer* (easier) to stay quiet, but perhaps it keeps you in the voiceless place, being safe. It takes strength to speak out, to deflect the stuff your mom directs towards you. You did so well, I'm sorry it takes so much energy but please congratulate yourself for that huge, very important step. It's a breakthrough isn't it? It seems like it Humour is an excellent way to deflect N darts.

[les]

Damn - got to get over being a bump on a log! What did you say Seeker? -stunned into silence ...let me check...ah, struck speechless by what you were witnessing. That's the thing.  It can be so off the wall it's hard to know how to respond.  

OnlyMe - I think this does get easier as time goes on. You've taken the most important step - beginning to trust yourself and your perceptions of what's going on. Love the comment to your mother about maybe telling YOU that you look good!  Her need for your .... what is it, your stroking? I was going to say your approval or validation, but that's not really it because she doesn't see YOU. So it's hold up the mirror one more time and tell me how lovely I am.  Right out there in the twilight zone.  

  For some reason I had a bit of a set back this week. Maybe getting better  is like this.  Approaching the weekly visit I was full of anger.  On the way there I was shouting "Die, Die, why don't you die."  I really want to get beyond that and I thought I was.  

 I noted that absolutely everything I said was either negated, adjusted or improved upon.  And I say nothing that is the least controversial, I say very little at all. Even my empathetic ( maybe just pathetic) comments needed to be tinkered with.  At the risk of being boring and repetitive I'm just going to write out what happened.  When I arrived to take her shopping there was a great song and dance about how she had been "hot" during the night and had a "dry" mouth. She said she had been "terrified" and couldn't sleep. Her dear friend (who is sooo concerned about her don't you know and would do anything for her blah blah)  came by RIGHT AWAY.  I said something  - reflecting back to her that she had been afraid.  Well, of course she hadn't been afraid!! oh yes that's right - she had been terrified.  I used to be called "Mute girl." I think I'll add totally bamboozled girl. Hmm I just got something.  I am not reflecting back to my mother exactly and precisely what she wants to hear about herself.  She wants an exact copy - no interference from this Les person. I am called upon to answer questions and to comment all the time. But there is only one right answer. In fact maybe that's not even right. I think no matter what I say to her she enjoys the pleasure of even more finely tuning and projecting with  100% accuracy the total magnificence of who she is.
 
Oh I don't know - sorry to be long winded and sorry to apologize but it's just how I feel at the moment -  I'll wrap this up.

Les

[OnlyMe]

Gee, Les, your message is like I wrote it myself.  My dearH just passed by my desk and I read your paragraph to him, and he said he thought we must have the same mother!  Honestly, they are interchangeable.  And they always leave us reeling, don't they?  
I know exactly what you mean - I cannot seem to say the exact words correctly, either.  nM needs to hear certain words, and yes, I am corrected constantly.  Between not being able to say a complete sentence or wear the right clothes, in her mind, it is amazing that I can manage to walk and talk at all.  
Yes, the nM needs stroking, and I find that there is a quota that she seems to require.  I seriously seem to think that there is a quota of stroking that is required each day, whether from me or from an outside source - and if it isn't met, then she asks for it.  I wasn't forthcoming with many flattering comments this past trip, b/c I just was so tired of the whole game, and so she resorted to asking for compliments - like
NM: Don't these gold earrings look wonderful on me?
Me: they look perfect.  
NM: yes they do, don't they? But these pearl ones look nice on me, too, don't they?
Me: they look lovely too
NM: Yes, they do, don't they?
Gag, choke, gag......

Well, it seems that I have come down with a stress-related ailment, as a result of the past six months or so (dying Dad, etc), and when I mentioned it today on the phone, didn't she say that she had the same thing?!and the conversation resorted to describing her health ad nauseum.....of course.  Stupid me - I flogged myself for even mentioning that I was imperfect.  Damn.

But, I guess all this is to say, yeah, Les, I know what you mean - I'm in  the same damn boat.  Good to know I'm not alone!

[OnlyMe]

Les,
Someone asked me about my NM, and I found myself saying "I'm just riding it out..."   which is another way of saying the same thing as you. Just riding it out.......  

[mighty mouse]

Les,

Get it out. Don't worry about being long winded. I for one like hearing about your mom (alternately funny and horrifying).

Well, my mom just sent me a birthday email (I've trained her not to call by not picking up the phone anymore). She typed the Happy Birthday song and then said the following:

Dear Lisa,

"You were a darling baby even though I had a tough time keeping you alive. Your card is in the mail." My card is always late btw.....

I thought you might get a laugh out of that   Now what the hell am I to make of that? I wrote back "Thanks for keeping me alive"!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not much but I thought it was amusing.

Maybe you should get a doll made in the image of your mom (one you can rip the head off). Or maybe one you can stick pins in.....? Or one with a big 'ol mirror attached to the hand   Hang in there dear Canadian lady.
No fine tuning required for your incredible expressions here.

MM

[OnlyMe]

Hi mightymouse
Happy Birthday!
We're glad she kept you alive, too!!!
And your b'day episode reminded me of my birthdays.  I was born a couple of weeks after Christmas, and without fail, my birthday presents always were wrapped in Christmas Paper, and inevitably, my card was a generic Christmas card, with a Happpy Birthday scrawled somewhere on it.  Isn't that special?! Not to mention that I am her only child.  It's not like there was a whole tribe of kids to remember!  And it was always handed to me at Christmas, and I had to wait weeks to open it.  Hope you get a laugh out of that!
Oh, the joys of a NParent...and I won the door prize by having two NP's!
Yup, it's a wonder I can walk and talk at the same time!

And Les, don't forget that we're in this together - and the days that you don't feel like jotting a line here are the days we wish you would, okay? -  your Cdn friend.

[mighty mouse]

Thanks, OM and nice to meet ya!! I've been enjoying your posts here.

MM