What is love? the unconditional kind!!

[ch]

Hi everybody,

I am fairly new here, so HELLO fellow posters!!

I have been thinking about "love" and what it means to "fall in love" and be "in love."   As a victim of being raised by Nmother, i've come to realize that i don't know what that is anymore and probably never did, therefore, i can honestly say that i probably never been in love, although i have had boyfriends and marriage proposals.  Somehow, i never trusted myself or in the other person to make that commitment.  Am i a victim or what?!!

Now, i am 37, looking better than ever, but i get looks and questions from concerned friends about my being single.  Most of the time, i am fine with it and don't stress about it at all, but every once in while, i do wonder what i am missing in life.  It must be wonderful to be in love and live happily within a marriage and creating a family.   I  know, i have lots more work to do as i feel somewhat immature with this aspect of my life.  On the other hand, i am so introspective and feel deeply about humanity.  Its been hard to find just the right match for me because i find people nowadays

[ch]

are so shallow, so controlling, so.....etc.....

Is this a symptom of being a victim of being raised with N parents?

[Anonymous]

Welcome ch,

What an interesting and thought provoking question.  It would be edifying to learn how other people here define it.  I'll take a swing:

I think love is discovering someone with similar good qualities and values that one may have oneself.  The feeling of "gosh, they are just like me and isn't it wonderful?"  A feeling of trusting and knowing that this loved person will respect your feelings, that is, acknowledge them, respond to them in a life-giving manner.  No ridicule, or invalidation.  

I think most people, being human, do put a few conditions on their love.  Most people enter relationships with expectations of some kind.  Examples: take care of me, or treat me with respect, or I want to have children, whatever.  

Just a few thoughts.  I'm sure there's lots more to add to this skimpy attempt.  Again, welcome to the board.  Seeker

[DenmarkGuy]

Hi ch, and welcome to the board-- and thanks for starting such an interesting topic.

As I have worked more and more on myself, and gone further and further along on my "Journey to the Self," I have also come to question just what love is. Along the way, I seem to have found more answers to what love is NOT, than what love IS.

A very difficult thing for me to face was the realization that I was probably never in love with my ex. We were married for 13 years. At least what we may have "felt" for each other was a need-based and very "transactional" type of love... a typical "giver and taker" co-dependency. The following relationship-- which has now lasted eight years-- is certainly much better, but it includes a lot of old patterns. I don't remember whose theory it is, but there's a theory that we have different "modalities" within relationships, including child, parent and partner. I would have to say that pretty much all my relationships have been more of a "child-parent" thing, than a true "partner" thing. And that alarms me, somewhat. And I realize that my current relationship continues somewhat in this vein.... with a dynamic that not only reflects my "caretaking/rescue" dynamic, but my partner's need to "be rescued and taken care of."

As I keep learning, I am also learning that perhaps I have never really been "in love." And maybe I have such a long "training," that I am still not sure what it even means....

--Peter

[bunny]

ch,

I think there are many, many kinds of love. For example, infatuation, passionate love, companionship love, maternal love, love for a pet, for favorite books, etc.   Commitment is something else. I think it's a mutual agreement to certain conditions so that a relationship will be sustained over time. That sounds pretty dry, I know.

bunny

[BlueTopaz]

Now, i am 37, looking better than ever, but i get looks and questions from concerned friends about my being single. Most of the time, i am fine with it and don't stress about it at all, but every once in while, i do wonder what i am missing in life. It must be wonderful to be in love and live happily within a marriage and creating a family. I know, i have lots more work to do as i feel somewhat immature with this aspect of my life. On the other hand, i am so introspective and feel deeply about humanity. Its been hard to find just the right match for me because i find people nowadays

Hi Ch,

Well, I could have written that part myself...  I get asked so much, why, why, why, I am single.  Like you, I get asked out quite a bit, but I am also very introspecitve and "deep" and I have trouble finding a personality match.  Not necessarily someone as deep and intro. at all, but just someone who "feels right".   Someone more emotionally and spiritually connected within themselves.

I also wonder whether I am missing out on so many interesting experiences by declining invitations (with people I don't feel are a fit) without giving it a chance at least, or whether it might be better because I'd be saving myself headaches.  I'm not sure either way on that one...  Maybe it would be a case by case thing.

Anyway, love to me = healing.   Since relationships bring up all of the painful childhood emotions, a relationship that would be conscious enough to allow for the understandings of where reactions and behaviors are coming from (ie. overreactions that lead to arguments are seldom about the surface subject), being able to  talk through them from their base point, and heal them, would be a very loving one, at core.

In short, I'd say love = consciousness= healing...    My thinking is that the more  evolution of consciousness that humanity is able to achieve, the more we will experience truly loving relationships, and vice versa.

I know that probably didn't help you one bit! LOL! hehe..

That's just my weird answer....

BT

[ch]

Hi Seeker, Peter, Bunny, BT,

I liked all of your answers.  It is great help to reflect and share all your great ideas.  Let's keep brainstorming on this topic.  I'd like to really get to the bottom of this one.

For me, i have no trouble with love of arts, music, animals, nature, children, humanity.  The specific problem i am referring to is romantic love-- love suitable to sustain a long-term relationship, hopefully marriage.

Why does it seem so difficult?  How have our Nparents ruined our chances to trust ourselves, to find a good mate.  I have a history of Nmen as former and current boyfriends.  Although, i tried to learn the lesson each time, and slowly improved my selection of men, the common denominator is still there.  They are all N men!!!       Ahhh, damn it!!  I need help!!  

[Anonymous]

For me, i have no trouble with love of arts, music, animals, nature, children, humanity.  The specific problem i am referring to is romantic love-- love suitable to sustain a long-term relationship, hopefully marriage.

I think that we are given wrong info (usually through TV and films) about romantic love. We think that love is this transcendant and permanent feeling, really magical, that stays fresh and beautiful always. There is very little information about setting high standards, being discerning, and using one's head. That is actually far more important for marriage than the "in love" emotions. Marriage has to withstand banal everyday stuff, family emergencies like illness/death, in-laws, family events, arguments, big decisions, etc. It's more about finding someone you can go through life with.

Here is a book that I enthusiastically recommend: Are You The One For Me? by Barbara d'Angelis. I really think you'd like it.

bunny

[Ishana]

Thank you for the topic, ch.

I suspect there are as many answers as there are people because we all have different experiences, needs, feelings, etc.

Still, sharing the human condition is so rewarding.

My experience, so far, has led me to the current experience of knowing, unrevocably, that I am loved.  For a long time, perhaps six years into this committed relationship, my insecurities and past hurts kept me skeptical.  I chose my spouse based on my assessment of his character, our ability to communicate and problem solve, mutual goals in life, etc.  What I found was someone who loves me unconditionally.  How do I know?  I see manifestations of it time and time again.  I don't wonder or question, ever.  My insecurities have disappeared.  I understand it is a commitment...a commitment to ourselves and to each other.  It is wanting what you have and having what you need.  It is, day after day, communicating with the goal of mutual understanding.  It is respecting each other's boundaries.  It is taking the time to listen, to understand, to care.  Its knowing that our lives aren't perfect...but knowing, no matter what, his love will be there.  Its trusting...after having been hurt once so deeply that I didn't want to go on living.  It trusting...after having been hurt again.  Its finding someone who understood the hurt and was willing to commit to do whatever it took to ease the hurt.  Its also about being committed to ourselves as individuals...the gift of caring for ourselves as well as each other.  

This may not make sense but his love is so deep and manifests in so many ways that I don't "need" for him to express it.  He does, but what I'm talking about is my need.  

Another aspect of our relationship that I love is the reciprocity.  It is there on every level.  I can count on him in every way.

I know you have been talking about romantic love, but I have something else to share.  Something that I have learned, from loving his children, is that when you unconditionally love someone and are committed to them you don't even have to receive back.  What I mean is that I love them, each one, very deeply.  Each of them and I bonded deeply through several experiences.  This bond has threatened their mother, who was out of the picture for a while.  Now she's back and they are confused about their loyalty to each of us.  At first it hurt, the way they treated me.  Now I understand and see the effects of my unconditional love in so many ways even if they can't demonstrate it.  So even though at times they seem indifferent, and that used to hurt, now I see children who are confused or who feel it is more safe to not show their love to me (the other ones will "tell" on the one who is interacting with me) than to displease their mother.  What I'm trying to say is that there are times where unconditional love means just that...no conditions.  I feel myself growing through this experience...to love no matter what.  To understand the other person and their needs and to place that above your own.  

I am not speaking of co-dependency.  Marriages and committed adult relationships are different than adult-child relationships.  But there could be times in a committed relationship when unconditional love is warranted and even needed.  I know I have developed this capacity...and the knowledge to know when its love and when its dysfunction.

Hmmm...feels like just a start to me too, Guest.

Ishana

[Dawning]

I would like to meet a man and share whatever years I have left but my family (in particular, my own father) abused and damaged me so much.  It is probably best for me not to have a man in my life now.  And only concentrate on my art.  Unconditional love is something I want to give to myself at this point.  I walked away from a 6 year unhealthy relationship last month.  I am taking little baby steps now.  The light is back on and I am not living in the darkness anymore....maybe that is what unconditional love feels like.  

[PnkDragn]

Unconditional?  Whats that?  lol

If you figure out what this beast is please let me know.

I hope you find it.

PnkDragn3

[PnkDragn]

On second thought I think I know the answer to that question.

Isnt unconditional love what Nkids feel for the Nfolk?

No matter how bad we are treated or punished or pummeled into the ground we still love our Nfolk.  Wouldnt that be unconditional?

PnkDragn

[ch]

Yes, that's right!! we know how to give unconditional love to our Nparents, but since our judgment is so clouded and disturbed by the N experience, how can we attract real love, the unconditional kind of course, in our adult lives?

How can we avoid fake love and the relationships that will replay the same unhealthy patterns we have experienced?  We need to break the unhealthy pattern that is hardwired in our psyche.

I fear falling back into the same patterns and being an N-supplier in my romantic life.

[Anonymous]

When we are happy within ourselves, within our lives and healthy within our hearts, we will attract people of the same state.
This will increase the chances of our relationship being what we truly want.

Unconditional love means love with no conditions attached, imo.
No requirements and nothing expected for it.

In order to love unconditionally, we must be able to forgive entirely.
To give unconditional love is a great challenge sometimes and one that we may not anticipate fully.  It is a decision we make, a choice.

To receive it, is the greatest gift imagined.

[nassim]

I have a very good relationship with my wife and it is based on love, equality and not taking each other for granted. I loved my wife when we got married, but I love her more today than I did then. It has grown over the years with mutual trust, understanding, shared memories and letting each other know every day that we love one another. And I thinks it's very important to have similar values. I can't stress that enough.

People usually are so busy looking for some kind of high feeling or lustful feeling and that doesn't last. IMO it's important to know yourself well and take time to know another person before investing too much emotion or you're only burning daylight so to speak.

I don't beleive in unconditional love. I think in a man/woman relationship it is healthy to have conditions that are conducive to a good relationship. Without a few requirements, it's not much good. It's a bit like boundaries to me. There are times when the requirements might get stretched though. That's okay if you have a good foundation.

We also don't curse at each other or argue. We do disagree but seek compromise because we are both invested in making each other happy.

Nassim