Author Topic: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading  (Read 3453 times)

lighter

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Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« on: June 12, 2008, 08:01:19 PM »
About Me, the author
 
J. Stephen Conn
I am a freelance writer and photographer, and also a former pastor and syndicated newspaper columnist.

Monday, January 30, 2006
Gossip: The Sin No One Confesses
Almost every sin imaginable has been confessed to me during the 35 years I have been a minister: stealing, lying, adultery, and even murder. But I do not recall that anyone has ever confessed to me the sin of gossip. Yet gossip is surely one of the most prevalent sins of all, and one of those most severely condemned in Scripture.

Perhaps one reason so few people feel guilty of telling about another person’s faults is because we have developed such clever ways to disguise what we are doing. Much of the worst slander is prefaced with a disclaimer such as, “I don’t mean to be spreading rumors, but ….” That is an absurd statement. Anyone who ever makes it should immediately just shut up, or at least change the subject.

Gossip may be disguised as false sympathy: “Isn’t it too bad how Joe beats his wife.” Some gossip is even passed off as a prayer request: “Now I’m just telling you this so you can pray about it.” Then there is the person who as a question: “Is it true that George and Alice are getting a divorce?”

We also gossip just by listening. If the receiver of stolen goods is as guilty as the thief, is not the person who provides a willing ear the accomplice to the one who bears the tale? I personally consider it an insult when a person brings me a bit of malicious gossip. In so doing he is passing judgment on me, assuming I am the kind of person who delights in hearing such slander.

A gossip may argue, “But I am only telling the truth.” The fact that a slanderous story is true does not necessarily justify its being told. If one man sins and another tells about it, the talebearer may have committed the worst sin of the two.

For example, Genesis 9 tells how Noah became intoxicated and lay naked in his tent. It’s a shame for anyone to get drunk and indecently exposed, especially a preacher.

One of Noah’s sons, Ham, discovered his father’s drunkenness and couldn’t wait to go tell his two brothers about their old man. All he told was the truth. But Shem and Japheth refused to look upon their father’s sin; instead they covered him.

The sons who would not listen to or spread the gossip were blessed and they prospered. Ham, because of his gossip, was cursed and condemned to a life of servitude. Like all sinners who repent, Noah was forgiven. In the New Testament he is later listed in Hebrews 11 as one of the great men of faith and righteousness.

In this scenario God’s judgment against one who gossips was even more severe than it was against the man guilty of drunkenness and indecent exposure. That’s something to think about the next time you hear yourself say: “I don’t mean to gossip, but….” The Living Bible says: “Anyone who says he is a Christian but doesn’t control his sharp tongue is just fooling himself, and his religion isn’t worth much.”
James 1:26
Posted by J. Stephen Conn at 12:01 PM   
Labels: Points to Ponder



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2nd entry



God bless,
Catholic Writer

AkismetQuestion: Is gossip a sin? Why?
Posted on September 4, 2006 by Catholic Writer

I’ve finally reached a new chapter in The Question Box by John J. Dietzen, leaving behind “Marriage and Family” and moving into “Right and Wrong”. I came across this interesting question to share:

Question: When does an injury to another person by true gossip become sinful? If the information is strictly true, where is the injury or sin?

John Dietzen:
In my experience as a priest, no crimes of speech (perhaps no crimes of any kind) are more destructive to our social relationships than the one you mention - and the feeling that simply because a thing is true about someone else, we are free to say whatever we like about it, whenever we liked, and to whomever we like.

One who thinks and acts this way is grossly in error. When the topic of our loose gossip is true, we’re dealing with the sin of detraction and contumely (insult). To lie about others, attributing to them faults and bad actions we know are untrue, is even worse, a sin of calumny or slander.

One commits the sin of detraction when he makes known the faults of another without a very good reason for doing so. It can be a serious moral offense if it does great harm to that other person’s reputation by having his of her faults spread about when they otherwise would not be.

The same sin of insult is committed when the other person is refused ordinary decency and respect whether face to face in private, or in public, such as in newspapers or on television.

Even when the other person’s faults are public knowledge, it still can be sinful against charity to speak unnecessarily about those faults.

Occasionally there may be good reasons to tell another’s faults, to a child’s parents, for example. It is grossly wrong, though, to imagine that just because a story about another person is true, one is at liberty to spread it around.

A person’s good name is among his most precious possessions, and the fact that one gets a kick out of being always there with the latest tidbit is no justification for tarnishing that good name. A person’s faults are a matter between himself and God. The rest of us should keep our noses out.

Scripture has many strong, condemning words for gossips. In one of the psalms, God doesn’t mince words: “The slanderer of his neighbour in secret - him will I destroy.”

Already in his own time, St. Paul recognised the poisonous effect of this kind of conversation. He found himself forced to warn against it frequently. His advice to Titus is still valid: “Tell them not to speak evil of anyone.” Which means in blunt language: “If you can’t say something good about someone, keep quiet.”


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3rd entry


If you know of people, Christians especially, who frequently gossip about others, whether it be in the neighbourhood, or in the office, send this to them, or redirect them to this post. Click on title of post to obtain the URL.
 

 
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Gossip is sharing private information with those who are not part of the problem or part of the solution.
When you speak things about others that you would be ashamed to say in their presence, you are not only disobeying God's Word (Leviticus 19:16), you are also destroying that person's reputation in the mind of your listener.

Scripture states that the sin of gossip is not limited to the spreading of lies alone, but also includes the improper involvement of yourself in another's personal business (1 Timothy 5:13).

Even to participate in the act of gossip as a listener is sin (Proverbs 20:19). By willfully listening to the one who gossips, you sanction the destruction of the other person's reputation.
 

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What Scripture Says
"For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults"
(2 Corinthians 12:20).

"You shall not go about as a talebearer among your people; nor shall you take a stand against the life of your neighbour: I am the Lord" (Leviticus 19:16).

"And besides they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not" 
(1 Timothy 5:13).

"For I heard many mocking:  'Fear on every side!'  'Report,'  they say, 'and we will report it.'  All my acquaintances watched for my stumbling, saying, '...we will take our revenge on him'" (Jeremiah 20:10).

"Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying,  'And what shall we do?'  So he said to them,  'Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages'" 
(Luke 3:14).

"Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and destroy. Who are you to judge another?" (James 4:11,12).

"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone..." (Matthew 18:15).
 

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God's Alternative
Matthew 18:15 gives the Scriptural alternative to gossip. If you have something against someone, you should go to that person, tell your grievance, and hear his/her side of the story. It may be that you were wrong. Thus, you will not only clear up your misunderstanding, but you will have a chance to apologize as well.

On the other hand, if you were correct and the person's words or actions have in some way caused you or another harm, then that person is given the opportunity to repent. Scripture gives further instruction concerning the course to take if the person does not repent (Matthew 18:16,17).

When you find yourself gossiping, repent at once so that God will forgive you of this terrible, destructive sin. Gossip has its roots in jealousy, hate and self-pride. As with hate, you remove the person who is the object of your gossip from the love you should be showing (1 John 2:9,11; 3:15). As a result, you are murdering the person in your heart.

In order to overcome gossiping, seek the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. As you acquire these virtues, you will not be boastfully challenging and envying others (Galatians 5:22-26). Instead, you will find yourself able to think of others as worthy of your love and respect. As you then show love, honour and respect, you will receive love, honour and respect in return.
 

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As You Pray
Pray in this way: "Please forgive me, Lord, for being a part of gossip, both for listening to it and for passing it on. Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight. In Jesus' name, amen."
   

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Suggested Reading
Read Beauty Care For The Tongue by LeRoy Koapman (Zondervan).
  1 Corinthians 13:1 Love does not seek its own
Romans 1:29 Whispering
Romans 1:30 Backbiting
1 Timothy 6:4 Evil surmising
Ecclesiastes 10:1 Babbling
Psalm 41:5 Evil speaking
Exodus 20:16 Bearing false witness
Proverbs 17:9 Reporting matters


Other ministry pamphlets are available upon request: ENVY/JEALOUSY, FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT, HUMILITY, INTERCESSION, and JUDGEMENTAL/CRITICAL ATTITUDE. [/color]

You may contact the Crossroads Ministry Centre or write to:  The Crossroads Centre, P.O. Box 5100, Burlington, Ontario,  L7R 4M2.

Crossroads is happy to help. In fact, that's the whole reason we exist as a ministry. The daily 100 Huntley Street telecast and the 24-hour-a-day telephone ministry lines are there for the same reason. You may want to call us as you are reading this.

God loves you and we love you! Please give us the privilege of doing our best to help more.
 


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Gabben

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2008, 08:47:29 PM »
Dear Lighter,

This was a very good read. Before I can even write about gossip, and my experience with it, I would have to admit to gossiping at times in my life. Over the past many years I have worked hard to curve my tung, but is still amazes me the ways in which I can find myself talking about others in disguise.

Having been the victim of slander this past year I can tell you how painful it is. I can tell you directly the intense social damage and division it causes.

Having been slandered it is very easy to want to slander back and tell those who you fear may have heard the "words" about you that the person who is telling those words, or lies, really is, but I have learned that that is called reverse slander; even hinting toward something about someone is wrong. Although I have been able to tell people about the pain of being slandered and that there was someone doing it in order to explain the PTSD that eventually I began to suffer from this past year after N-Saint slandered me to my parish under the guise of victimhood.

Thank God my parish knew exactly who she was and what she was up to. But, it still terrorized me.


This past year I confronted N-Saint with the following:

Matthew 18:15 gives the Scriptural alternative to gossip. If you have something against someone, you should go to that person, tell your grievance, and hear his/her side of the story. It may be that you were wrong. Thus, you will not only clear up your misunderstanding, but you will have a chance to apologize as well.

I asked her to stop talking about me as her "detractor" especially to stop doing it to my own therapist who was just about the only person with who I had told...it was if N-Saint was going to shut me up even from my own therapist.

N-Saint ignored my request to meet and mediate as well as to stop slandering. She took my letter to my parish and showed them feigning victimhood ---- Wrong.

Now, I have been on the receiving end of hearing rumors or ideas about someone. Being a person who likes to think for themselves I have listened more to my gut feelings, eventually following and acting on them.

I have learned much this past year about slander and gossip which were two words I rarely even used before my traumatic experience. I've learned,  especially, to never speak about others.....never, unless I could honestly say that they would not mind one bit my speaking about them.


Lise
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 08:51:30 PM by Gabben »

lighter

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2008, 09:53:14 PM »
Leah...  I was thinking about just these words today:

 "He who is without sin cast the first stone"

Thanks for providing them here.

Gabbin goes on, in her post, to represent the spirit of this instruction.....

to include ourselves in every observation we make about sin.

Not to turn a blind eye or omit every sin we observe.

Just my opinion, of course.

Lighter

Certain Hope

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2008, 10:18:35 PM »
Yikes. Thank you for the reminder, Lighter. I know it's all true.

This notation lept out at me: 

Gossip has its roots in jealousy, hate and self-pride.
 [/b] As with hate, you remove the person who is the object of your gossip from the love you should be showing (1 John 2:9,11; 3:15).
 As a result, you are murdering the person in your heart. [/b]

I believe that.
Wish I could say that I've always heeded it, but I haven't.
I can see a temptation to say... no, no - it's not pride or envy or any of that nasty stuff, it's fear!  But that would be just another rationalization.

Matthew 18 really does contain the full counsel on how to handle grievances (if those are the excuse being used for gossip)...
including the final drawing of a very firm boundary, when resolution is not possible. I'm committing to following those principles more consistently from now on!

Lighter, where is this instruction you referenced...?  Tired eyes here and I'm not seeing it, but I know that is the spirit of the Word (like the log removal bit)
to include ourselves in every observation we make about sin.

Not to turn a blind eye or omit every sin we observe.



That is so wonderful! Would sure keep us all humble.

Thanks.

Carolyn


lighter

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2008, 10:26:50 PM »
That's the way I interpret it, in my opinion, Carolyn.

I need to check out the whole.... Mathew 18 grievance..... stuff: )

Lighter

Certain Hope

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2008, 10:38:32 PM »
Oh, I agree with your interpretation of the spirit of the letter... so to speak.

And... I was just thinking... that I bet my calling a coworker a Fruit Loop, or one of the other frustrating people in my life Queen NutJob,
is probably another example of unloving gossip. So I will cut that out.

I'm sorry. Looks to me like it's time to finish growing up. Can't pick and choose, yanno.

Matthew 18 says it all, yup. Not long ago, I felt too frightened to ever try the one-on-one approach, but not any more.

Thanks again, Lighter.

Carolyn

lighter

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 11:12:36 PM »
Carolyn..... here we are, again.

If you call a co worker a nut job...

and they're a nutjob.....

are you gossiping

or being direct? :shock:

Not kidding, completely but....

there's a thin line between being "direct", "cruel/witty" and "making stuff up to hurt others?"

Do ya think?


Lighter

Certain Hope

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 11:22:41 PM »
I feel that when I refer to someone as a Fruit Loop or a Nutjob, I'm being way too cavalier and... well... crude?
Well, except for one of our dogs, who really is a fruit loop.
But referring to a human being in such terms definitely doesn't ascribe to him or her the personal dignity and respect that I think we're supposed to show (whether we like them or not, whether they're really crazy or not).

Also, I think that one of your posts mentioned... even if the statement is true, if it's not said in the proper spirit, for the purpose of benefitting the other or helping in some sincere way, then it's still unnecessary and wrong gossip?

No, I don't think there's a thin line between those options.
Making stuff up = lying = always wrong.
Gossiping = spreading harmful info (even if it's true) = being a busybody = always wrong.

Carolyn

lighter

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 12:01:13 AM »
Carolyn.... on reflection....

 it's not nice to gossip.  

No matter who's doing it, including me.

My definition of gossip is:

talking about things aren't any of my business and don't concern my life past simple contemplation.

Esp if what's being said would be hurtful to the people I'm talking about.

I get a D-STINK'D PING! in my tummy when gossip leaves my fingers or mouth.

Hot
and I know I've made a mistake. (I also secretly believe I will be punished, just a matter of time)

If I'm commenting on someone who's impacting my life, and I'm commenting on that situation....

then I'm not gossiping esp if I've already tried to talk about it to the person/s involved.

IF I'm telling it true, to the best of my ability,  I won't get a PING... even if I use colorful descriptive language that paints an accurate picture.

Sometimes people do bad things... and it sounds bad to talk about them, no matter how we tip toe round it.


On calling my co worker a nut job.....

If he's trying to smell me, repeatedly, and follows me into the snack lounge, insisting I scratch his shaved forearms.....

ahhhhhh,

that might not make me tummy go PING!  :shock:

I'd probably wished I'd said..... "disturbed individual" on reflection, but darnit..... probably still no ping.

Calling a neighbor, who'm I know very little about, a nutjob bc she sleeps in her front yard, begs matches and coffee from neighbors and talks to herself...... would be mean and unkind gossip, IMO.  

Talking about a divorcing neighbor, behind her back? Typical , not my business gossip.  

If I make up some interesting lies..... bc she's prettier than me and her kids are much better behaved than mine....

 say....

tell my book club, she's been asked to join, that she's cheating and her children speak in grunts and howles....

that's slanderous gossip.  

And......

 I'm a nutjob/disturbed individual/predator, depending on how kind the person relating that true observation/gossip/opinion is.

Lighter

ps I know I went the long way on that one but..... I guess I needed to.

Certain Hope

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 12:07:23 AM »
LOL... yes, you went the longggg way around, but good thing you did, but I think I may actually get it now.

Thanks, Lighter.

I may even agree, but need to sleep on it to be sure.

lol

Thanks... I feel better.  'nite... gotta let the fruit loop out now.

Carolyn

lighter

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 12:11:55 AM »
Night: )

teartracks

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 01:05:24 AM »




Hi lighter,

Good topic.

Here are a few snippets.  Link below.

-So, one's inner desire to be authentic and sincere, and not gossip, needs to emerge from a person's deep sense of integrity, and from a conscious, heart-felt desire to be harmless in the context of their life and in their interactions with others.

-Without this profound inner commitment to harmlessness, an injunction to "stop gossiping", for example, is simply an "outer" induced rule or policy that can often bring up ego-based behaviors in reaction to the "rule." So, one continues to find "excuses" (since there's never a "reason") to gossip.

-Or, someone may be "upholding the rule" outwardly, but still be *gossiping in their thoughts, still sending out hostile vibrations, and just being "quiet" about it. Often, this covert behavior is even more dangerous and insidious.

-Unless we truly explore our inner behavior (mental models, self-images, ego
constructs, super-ego judgments, attendant beliefs, feelings and emotions), we
cannot be free from both the urge and the habit of gossip.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Gossip---A-Form-of-Workplace-Violence&id=133712

tt

* That was a Gotcha for me!





lighter

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 01:30:24 AM »
tt... you've hit something I've been trying to edit down to a couple of paragraphs.

If we pretend to BE something, for a payoff.... then we aren't authentically intentioned.


I n t e n t i o n.

What is our spirit?


Can we tell the difference between taking someone's voice and using our own?.

Between slandering someone's character and pointing out slanderous behavior?

And... if we point.... are we trying to destroy or enlighten?

If our behavior is impuned, do we turn it into an opportunity to grow.....

 or light that honest bastard's character on fire, and watch it burn?

Intention.

Yup yup yup.

Lighter

ps... speaking of lowering one's dignity... has anyone ever been paying half attention to the TV.... when adult swim switches on.... and Squidbillies plays indignantly in the background?: 0




« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 01:38:10 AM by lighter »

lighter

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 03:58:41 AM »
I thought this was posted somewhere... couldn't find it.

Re posting here, as follows:






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The High Price of Peace at Any Cost

by Anna Valerious


I have made reference several times to what I call the Cult of Nice. When referring to the Cult of Nice I have commented on how this 'cult' labels it a 'sin' or 'wrong' to hurt someone's feelings. Both Christians and secular types who've swallowed pop psychology seem to often subscribe to this belief. This anti-logic provides a lovely escape hatch for malignant narcissists because you can be made into a 'sinner' for calling them on their garbage, or for simply stating truth. They wave the flag of their 'hurt' feelings and it is supposed that you will then cease and desist or risk being labeled a hateful, unkind person. You're accused of being mean...which is like a cuss word to the Cultists of Nice-land. The tables get turned so fast that the victim becomes abuser in a blink of an eye in this alternate universe of anti-logic.

Those who subscribe to this kind of thinking are not being rational in any way. Which is why I tend to see this as a religious/cult-like type of thinking. It is a faith-type belief in the supremacy of feelings over principles. The Cult of Nice is a false righteousness that attempts to dismiss or disparage real justice or right-doing through name-calling. It is a useful belief system which allows you to eliminate any opposition to your behaviors or attitudes by this pretense that others are responsible for your feelings.
If you are confronted with an uncomfortable or unwelcome truth you can trump that truth with your 'hurt' feelings. Then the only 'truth' that matters is that you feel hurt, angry, upset, persecuted, etc. This is a custom made system by and for narcissists and other villains.


There is an adjunct to the "we must never ever hurt anyone's feelings" tenet of the Cult of Nice.

It is: "peace at all costs."

If I could be allowed to surmise, I think it is safe to say that nearly every family with a malignant narcissist has at least one family member who believes in the 'peace at all costs' maxim. This self-appointed 'peacemaker' has likely held most of the other family members in line for the family narcissist by forcing these other family members to 'go along to get along'. Because the family narcissist can make life very difficult when someone crosses their will, the family peacemaker will shame other family members by telling them they are responsible for not 'upsetting' Mommy Dearest, or whomever the narcissist is in that particular family. Because when 'momma ain't happy; ain't nobody happy' is reality for that family, the peacemaker emphasizes how everyone other than Momma is responsible for not rocking the family boat.

The rest - here:  http://www.zimbio.com/pilot?ZURL=%2FNarcissistic%2Bpersonality%2Bdisorder%2Farticles%2F15%2FHigh%2BPrice%2BPeace%2BAny%2BCost&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fnarcissists-suck.blogspot.com%2F2008%2F03%2Fhigh-price-of-peace-at-any-cost.html


Count carefully the ultimate cost of 'peace at any and all costs'.
It is very steep.
In the end, all you will be left with is the cold comfort of your pretended integrity and righteousness minus your soul.




Interesting.

::nodding::

Lighter

Certain Hope

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Re: Gossiping: Is it a sin? 3 opinions I enjoyed reading
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 08:14:37 AM »
Dear Lighter,

That "Peace at Any Price" post goes right along with one I just put here on the main board, about Truth as a Relative Quantity.

I hope that it will help... but, of course, it's only useful to those who are willing to stop trying to create their own reality, in defense of their faulty non-reasoning.

Perhaps your valid points re: gossip will bring some more of the muck out into the open.
Maybe that's what is happening now.
I hope you'll make wise use of the opportunity to respond to it - or not - as you see fit.

Because I don't want to chime in on a thread hashed out by people with whom I desire absolutely no contact, I'll just put this here:

It seems that it's been decided you were not severely enough punished for daring to confront what you saw as wrong in the past.
Because you made yourself a bold target for bitterness, you seem to have been selected for ongoing flaming.
You're not alone.
I'm part of your "tag team", remember?
Guilty by past association... of nothing other than being present and accounted for.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm positive that you're not the only one so hated.
You're just the only one who gave some measure of cause* for recrimination.
And so it goes on.
Hell hath no fury...
and I think that every single bit of what's transpired since has been baiting to try to get you to react in some way so as to get banished from this board.

I hope that you won't fall for it, because I know that you need to be here.
But that's your choice.

Love,
Carolyn

* on edit - I don't know any other way to word that without watering down what I think is true and right.
Because it sounds harsher than I intend it to be, I also want to add that I have seen you heed Dr. Grossman's warnings (which are continually being mentioned on this board as though you are some isolated case).

So yes, you were warned, twice, by the moderator here. And you backed away from the matter, as instructed.
Congratulations!
You did well in that.
Don't screw it up now.
hugs.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 08:18:43 AM by Certain Hope »