Relationship Dynamics

[Certain Hope]

Hi,

I’m wondering about the topic of relationship dynamics, specifically in light of making mindful choices.

Choosing to discontinue associations, when possible, with those who lie, cheat, steal, and otherwise create mayhem in their environment is relatively straightforward and simple, if not easy.... but what of those relationships which have developed over the course of healing from abuse,  where at least one of the parties involved may be still in flux?

I mean, I know that I'm in a state of flux... still discovering my own likes and dislikes,  preferences, needs, goals - now that I finally realize there are options!  Rules of character and integrity underpin all of this continual flowing, but still... sometimes I don't know what it is I want... and I can see how that would be a matter of frustration to others, who are more set in their ways. Often, it's much easier to recognize what it is that I don't want... so it's like constantly playing catch up.  I really hope this makes some sense.

So... at the moment, I'm considering the phrase "relationship dynamics"... and I'm realizing that, till today, I did not even know what that meant.   
I'd thought of dynamics as the catalyst, the power to move, to change and grow...  in this case, within a relationship... and I'd figured that if two people have attained a reasonable level of trust, each in the other, and are enjoying some measure of reciprocity within their conversations, then there is a good, solid dynamic.
But now I read this very basic bit of info, as follows, and wonder - - - - what is the proper method of becoming more intentional in establishing these dynamics?  And how much needs to be discussed... and when?  And at what point does an aquaintance become a friend? I'd very much appreciate your thoughts and anything you can add to the very abbreviated info copied below. Thanks!

Sincerely,
Carolyn

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The term “dynamics of a relationship” refers to the rules that guide interaction of the two people in the relationship. It includes how they interact with each, how they treat each other, and the level of respect they display for each other. Every relationship has a unique relationship dynamic – from your relationship with your hairdresser to your relationship with your spouse.

Unique to each relationship

If you have five friends, you will interact with each of them differently. You might be more familiar with one, more careful with another and more respectful with yet a third. You might feel free to call one after midnight but would never dare to call another at that hour.

Who determines the relationship dynamic?

Relationship dynamics are influenced by many factors but it is the two people involved who clearly determine these dynamics. And they start setting these dynamics almost from the first hello. Sometimes even before the first hello. For instance, a woman calling a man for a first date might find him not accepting of her initiative. He may turn her down and then later call her to invite her on a date. He is setting a dynamic of him being the initiator.

The dynamic in its simplest form is a determination of what is considered acceptable behaviour by each person in response to the other.

Rules of the relationship

Relationship dynamics are akin to the rules of the relationship – the rules that guide how the two persons treat each other and interact with each. It is rules that are laid down as to what is and what is not acceptable behavior to the two people in the relationship. It is fluid and will change as time goes on and the two persons change.

How Relationship Rules Develop

Most people never think of a relationship in terms of a negotiating process but essentially that is what obtains. Relationship rules begin to be hammered out from the first interaction. One person does something and the other person responds either positively or negatively to that action.

[teartracks]

Carolyn,

Personally, I think this thread has the potential to enlighten us all.  I don't have my thoughts composed at the moment, but I WILL be paying attention to what you and others think.

tt

[LilyCat]

Carolyn,

Just wanted to say, real fast, that this is real interesting, and a good set of question, and that I will think about it and write more later when I have time.

Just wanted to let you know I "hear" you, and am glad you're posting.

LC

PS -- as to not knowing wants -- for me, this was the most powerful part of Dr G's essay on voicelessness. It was the first time I'd ever heard someone talk about the inability to answer questions. If you want to frustrate me entirely, ask me what I want. About the only answer I can give, in true Miss America style, is "world peace."

[Certain Hope]

Hi tt,

I hope so! And I hope that, at some point, you'll share your thoughts... and possible questions on the topic, as well.

Hi CB,

Thanks for your post.
What you've said makes good sense to me.

I don't want to be in the position of putting each interaction under the microscope...
but more than that, I want to be sure NOT to use the magical thinking you've mentioned,
to gloss over issues that really should be duly noted.

At the same time, I am more aware than I have ever been that other people have to put up with a lot from ME too!  And that there is a lot of give and take that goes on between imperfect people.

I think that's the glue which bonds us together, exactly.
It's the missing link in those who, like my mother, behave as though they are so far above the "fray" of ordinary human relations.
She really could teach a graduate course in Superior Stoicism.
I graduated summa cum laude... but now they won't renew my certification     Shucks.

So...
when you meet someone and you're talking with them, finding both common ground and differences, which is only natural,
is it best to discuss the most noticeable/potentially objectionable differences early on?

I'm asking because - it's in the discussion and review of those differences that an opening arises for either party to say - whoa, that diff is too big a hurdle for me at this time... let's slow down/ work toward potential compromise by discussing it some more/ potentially call a halt to any further discussions. Right?

If we only discuss the biggies and, in the meanwhile, a wagonload of little issues is accumulating, we could wind up in a ditch anyhow, without ever having had such an open discussion, so...  we're each pretty much on our honor, as far as processing the baggage before it tips the cart. Right?

Seems obvious to me that the better we each know ourselves, the easier it is to deal with these smaller items as they arise... because we know which ones are likely to be relationship busters.
So I guess that for someone who knows himself quite well to have to deal intimately with someone like me, who is still pretty fuzzy around the edges, must require plenty of patience and foresight.

And I wonder...  isn't part of what creates the desire to spend time with another person in communication... an intuited sense that it's safe to lay down defenses with her and just be yourself?  
If one person reaches that level of trust before the other, I can see how the disparity of view could stir up some questions.

I guess I pretty much feel like I'll just be myself no matter what... at least that is how I want to be.
That doesn't spring from any great confidence, although confidence is growing... but mostly it comes from a deep and abiding disgust for the wearing of masks.
Some people don't know how to take that, either.  I can see it in their eyes. It's as though... when they sense the absence of a mask, it seems to make them grasp on to their own false front for dear life. That still freaks me out a bit.

But mostly I am wondering now...
still...
is it not okay to simply enjoy conversing with someone for the simple pleasure of exchanging thoughts?
Isn't dialogue a fundamental dynamic of relationship?
Or must a relationship be defined by some set label before the other blanks can be filled in?

Hope that makes sense.

Carolyn


P.S. Lily...  Hi.  Thanks... and I do hope you'll come back to post again here.
I am still really out of touch with the answers to the "wants" question, too... and "peace" is also my primary response.
Unfortunately, getting a handle on other aspects of the answer tends to disrupt peace...
Love to you.

[LilyCat]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about "just enjoying simple conversation" (to paraphrase.

My initial reaction to your questions was "just let it happen." I think it's probably different with each person. With some you might feel yourself wanting to set stronger boundaries from the beginning; with others you may naturally fall so into place that things do not come up.

I think it's really different in romantic relationships vs. friendships. They are two different animals; I think you have to be a lot stronger, more open initially in romantic relationships than friendships.

It sounds to me like you have good intuition; trust that! You'll know when to speak up (generally) and when not to.

For me, I think self-disclosure is a big item: how much, when, and is this person safe? It's something I generally think about; I tend to be more conservative now than I was many years ago; it just feels right.

When to bring up the little issues? I don't know, exactly. Again, I think it's different for each person and each relationship, and you just have to trust yourself to know when and why and how to address it. With newer people, you might want to be as diplomatic as you possibly can; with older acquaintances, you can let go more freely.

In terms of when does an acquaintance become a friend ... that's something only you can decide. It really is. I guess you'll know because one day you'll be feeling a special closeness or fondness for that person -- although I have many acquaintances, say, work colleagues, of whom I'm quite fond but I would not consider them friends.

To me, a friend is someone who has lived with you through something, good or bad, and shown respect and consistency. Someone who has proved reliable and trustworthy; and someone who has proved their ability to acknowledge your feelings and rights, and hopefully embraces and supports them...all while developing some continuum of self-disclosure.

Friendship, I guess, is generally (but not always) done in baby-steps -- an emerging pattern of increasin trustworthiness and reliability.

Hard to find. I am blessed with a bunch of good, good friends, all of them long-term, and I think that's one of the definite good things about getting older -- you've known your friends for quite awhile and enjoy a richness that only time can provide.

Again, I think the most important thing is to trust yourself. There's a certain amount of risk in any relationship, and you have to decide what's tolerable for you. It may be more with one person than with another.

Also, I think you have to decide what imperfections you will accept -- because if you don't accept them, you'll have to enforce stronger boundaries.

And I think that, in a strictly potential friendship (as opposed to romantic relationship), I would feel a little weird if someone started fairly early to address issues with me, however minor. There's a definite period of getting to know each other and trust each other. You can always put the disturbances in a mental checklist, then bring them out much later when you've established mutual trust and rapport.

And I think people are all over the map with this, and that's okay. I don't think there's a set process or set of guidelines for this; or at least, I know there's not for me. I've known some people who were extraordinarily honest and open-mouthed from the very beginning, and I've enjoyed that tremendously. Other people could be equally as open, and I might not like it, for whatever reason. Therein lies part of the uniqueness of each person that we meet and each relationship that we have.

I do think, and have learned, that people can accept an amazing amount of honesty if it's well presented, and earnestly so.

Hope that answers some of your questions. (????)

LC

[sKePTiKal]

Carolyn - I don't know that relationship negotiations are something that actually get discussed, except when there's a conflict. It's more a dance - and the "lead" changes a lot, in healthy relationships. Two-way interaction; reciprocity...

If we're analyzing/assessing all the time - we might be missing all the FUN stuff! 
Ya know?

[Certain Hope]

Hi Lily,

Thank you so much for your thorough reply!
I really appreciate it...  and you.

This feels like such foreign ground to me. Can't even be sure I'm aware of all the different aspects to consider... which means it's difficult to even pinpoint what questions to ask in order to gather a better understanding of all this relationship stuff. So - your post really helped.
Seriously, I am woefully ignorant on this topic. All of my life, I've just fallen into various sorts of relationships... and then, often, had to flee from them, because things would spiral into disaster before I had a clue what was happening.
Reading and absorbing the book Safe People was the most deliberate approach I'd ever taken toward considering these issues... and it helped alot!
Having the basics in order to form firm boundaries against fundamentally un-safe individuals is wonderful.
Now it's about practicing some fine-tuning, I guess.

Considering friendships... Unless a person were to give me serious cause to mistrust her motives, I had been feeling like it's okay to "just let it happen", too.
Seems to me that's what makes it fun to participate in dialogue and exchange thoughts...
with no further expectations other than that the folks involved each value and appreciate each other.

Like Amber wrote: 

If we're analyzing/assessing all the time - we might be missing all the FUN stuff!

Exactly!  Especially, I don't want to try to fit people into some pre-molded role within my life and guage their suitability as friends or potential friends based on how they compare with someone else I've known... particularly with anyone in my original family!

So I think that's definitely got to be one of my own cardinal rules of relating... reminding myself that other people are unique, separate individuals... and not my mother, father, brother, ex-whatever. I'm the one responsible for seeing to it that I don't blur those lines where others are concerned. And, I have learned, I'm the one responsible to see that no one else treats me as such, by refusing to accept the role in which they may try to cast me. 

Amber, you wrote:

Carolyn - I don't know that relationship negotiations are something that actually get discussed, except when there's a conflict. It's more a dance - and the "lead" changes a lot, in healthy relationships. Two-way interaction; reciprocity...

Yes. Thank you so much. I do believe that disagreements can form healthy grounds for building stronger relationships, as opposed to black marks on a scoresheet... and I love the image of a dance, with the lead changing.

Tell you what... I am so tired of "complicated"... and I don't want to play games. Simply taking people at their word and not trying to dig beneath for some invisible root is a great place to begin, imo. I mean, I don't want to be responsible for trying to read between lines and interpret some hidden messages.  Don't speak in code... just spit it out directly and clearly. I think alot of that other nonsense occurs when others are relating to you as though you're someone from their past... and that's the part that creeps me out.  Hmm... better apply that mini-rant to myself, too, and ensure that I'm not relating to others in that way.

Anyhow, all of your comments are very much appreciated.

And Lily, I didn't specifically address alot of what you said, but it does all help... really! My absorbency level is quite low right now, but it'll all sink in eventually. Just need to regroup.

Carolyn

[sKePTiKal]

Yes, Carolyn...

Tell you what... I am so tired of "complicated"... and I don't want to play games. Simply taking people at their word and not trying to dig beneath for some invisible root is a great place to begin, imo. I mean, I don't want to be responsible for trying to read between lines and interpret some hidden messages. 

Sometimes there AREN'T hidden messages. At least, not intentional ones. And yes, we are responsible for making sure we aren't trying to control or direct things according to some old pattern, too. Doesn't mean we can't give people who even just SEEM to have some agenda a wide berth...

[Certain Hope]

Sometimes there AREN'T hidden messages. At least, not intentional ones. And yes, we are responsible for making sure we aren't trying to control or direct things according to some old pattern, too. Doesn't mean we can't give people who even just SEEM to have some agenda a wide berth...

Thanks, Amber. I was often among the last to recognize when there actually was a hidden message, which has gotten me into hot water with those who see hidden messages everywhere... like my mother.

Instead of presuming the worst... or even preparing for the worst... I'd rather expect anything and remain detached from the consequences.

Anything else is life on the dark side, imo... and I'm not interested.

And yes, that wide berth suits me fine 

Carolyn