Are Nkids more insightful?

[PnkDragn3]

One thing I have noticed about myself is that I have a great insight as to who and what people are in the first moments of meeting them.  I guess this is a skill I have had to learn to "size up" my Nfather to protect myself.  Of course when I would try to warn others of what I felt I was always discredited.  It was proven time and time again that I was right about this person.  But of course nobody ever acknowledged that I was.   For a long time I refused to listen to my "gut feelings" and I would always get zapped.

I have recently realized that how my mother and siblings view me is actually my Nfathers opinion.  Will I ever be able to set them straight?  That I am not the "stupid little b*itch" that he so lovingly refered to me as for so many years?  Can the damage be repaired?

[Ellie]

I too have always been able to see through someone very quickly. It's almost as if there is radar being emmitted from Ns that send danger warnings.

I not only size people up, but after years of having to know what the Nparents were thinking in order to respond quick enough to their needs, I can usually know what people are thinking, planning, etc. It is very hard for anyone to plan a surprise for me. I instinctively know that something is going on behind my back and can figure it out quickly. I can usually know in advance what hubby is getting me for presents. It's just second nature to already know these things. I used to say I had ESP, but as I have learned more about N behavior, I realize I was conditioned early in life to know things before they were spoken. Children of Ns have been taught to second guess, read the Ns minds, read the emotions and body language - that is what has kept us alive and somewhat functional all of these years.

I think we would all probably be very good detectives! I watch the crime shows and they still cannot fool me - I know early on what the ending is going to be.

I guess we can thank the Nparents for that skill - it has kept me out of trouble many times - instinctively knowing what people are planning in situations that I may not want to participate!

[PnkDragn3]

Dear Ellie,

I remember one time I rented a mystery murder movie which I knew what the jest of it was about.  The very first scene a man in the movie laughed in a way that i instictively knew he was the one who commited the murder.  When I heard the laugh I told my boyfried at the time that he was the one who did it.  Needless to say at the end of the movie he asked me how I knew it was him and I told him it was because of the laugh.  He watched that scene over and over again trying to figure out what I saw in the laugh and he couldnt.  Weird how we can pick up on this stuff.

Another skill I developed over the years was the ability to talk my way out of any situation.  Whether I did the crime or not.  I guess I developed this because my siblings were always blaming thing on me that I didnt do.  I could talk my way out of anything but I knew in my heart they didnt believe me.

[ch]

Yes, i think we have excellent intuition aright.  The next step is to TRUST it, and sharpen them.  Its definitely a good thing to have for survival.  Better than a phd degree, special talents, financial security, etc...  well, maybe, on par with some these goodies.   But, no, i wouldn't trade my intuition for anything in the world. I thank my lucky stars for it all the time!!!  

If you are looking for validation from others, that is hard to find unless they also have the same experience and background.  You can find it here since we all have had the N tragedy in our lives, past, or present.  We know exactly what you mean.

Also, Pinkdragon, i think you need to forget about your Nfamily. Their judgment is always clouded and completely way off from reaility so as to suit their own needs.

[Discounted Girl]

We have insights that we didn't know we had. We didn't try nor plan to learn these "techniques," they just kicked in as part of our instinct to survive. I too have noticed perceptions I have in other areas of my life that seem more keen than others. These "perceptions," however, are not always a bonus. I have prayed to be simple, at least for a while so that I can get some rest.

PnkDragn3 -- I want to respond to your:

"I have recently realized that how my mother and siblings view me is actually my Nfathers opinion. Will I ever be able to set them straight? That I am not the "stupid little b*itch" that he so lovingly refered to me as for so many years? Can the damage be repaired?"

You have no idea how many times I have said almost the exact same words since 2001. Mine of course is about the NQueenmother. I am sure I am much older than you and the abuse has gone on much longer. There is no way to tell how many people out there in any given situation throughout the years have come away with the wrong impression of me based purely and completely on her lies and smear tactics. Like we have posted on this board over & over -- it is so hard for others to accept that a parent would purposely choose to destroy their own child that outrageous lies are believed as "it must be true -- her mother said so." 90% of the time, you do not even know these events have occurred.

There is not enough time left in my life (let alone energy) to go around "setting the record straight." She destroyed my relationship with my brother and his wife and children. She has tried to damage my relationship with my sons. She has painted a distorted picture of me with her acquaintences and probably more strangers than I could even imagine. She whispered things to my father about me -- I hate to imagine what.  She told lies about me to all my family. She in fact shortened my life and made a great deal of it miserable. She cheated me out of my childhood and a large part of my adulthood. She robbed me of some valuable stuff with respect to my relationship with my children. By the time I caught on to her monstrous ways, my life was way past half over and hers was 75% gone and my Dad was old and sick.

If i could buy the headline of every newspaper in America, if I could be on all the news shows and expose her, I would surely do it. It means that much to me, the hurt is so deep. My brother used to like me and we had fun together and I respected him and valued his friendship, but grain by grain, one iota at a time, she undermined me and I didn't even know it. What a total pig, bitch and wicked witch she is.

I just want to say to anyone out there who thinks this is a mental illness and these people cannot help themselves, you are wrong. This is a bad habit and a way of life that they plan and choose to live. It is all very deliberate and premeditated.

I really and truly wish that she had had a child who gave her problems and grief. She had a child who was no trouble, who loved and respected her mother, who got good grades, who had manners, who obeyed all her rules, who was kind and polite, never embarrassed her, never cost her anything more than clothes and food, and she made a deliberate choice to hurt me, use me, abuse me and try to destroy me.

When I didn't turn out to be trash and useless it infuriated her even more and the smear tactic efforts picked up speed and strength in the last 20 years. I am very angry at the family members who listened to her lies and (while many never have believed them) they did not tell her so. So, in essence, their silence was agreement. They sat in silence and let her believe she had ruined me in their eyes.

I just want to tell that I do not believe the damage can ever be repaired, but, believe me, you have absolutely nothing to lose by telling each and everyone of those people you love what he has done to you and that you know what he is up to. Be specific and calm and ask them to, out of respect for you, challenge any lies they are told.

[Ellie]

PnkDragn3, Discounted, ch,

I agree.

Discounted, I could have written more than half of your posting.

There is no way to go back and repair the damage another has done against you. The siblings will not believe you unless they have seen what you see and feel what you feel. More people than not want to still believe that their parents would never do anything to intentionally harm them.

As for my siblings, they see the damage that has been done, but they believe in the Nparents so much that they believe I brought all of this on myself - that I damaged my relationship with the family.  In a way I guess I did, I choose to not live with their evilness anymore.

Even though one sister has been irrepairably harmed from them, she still believes she can some day make them love and accept her. In fact she keeps trying to find a guy that they will accept so she can make up for the past that the Nparents destroyed.

Discounted said:

If i could buy the headline of every newspaper in America, if I could be on all the news shows and expose her, I would surely do it. It means that much to me, the hurt is so deep.

I have said that so many times!

The real issue is not setting the record straight with anyone. I believe the real issue is to seperate yourself from those you love that keep hurting you. As hard as it is to imagine doing, time will allow you to heal and not look back, and even be very content with your decision.

Learning to live without the ones that hurt you takes practice. You have been conditioned to live with the hurt, that it feels natural. But it does harm to you and all those who really love you.

You cannot beat yourself up because you had an Nparent. It happens to the best of us. But looking forward, deciding the best choice for you and trying to be a happy person is a good path to strive for.

[Anonymous]

" it is so hard for others to accept that a parent would purposely choose to destroy their own child that outrageous lies are believed as "it must be true -- her mother said so." 90% of the time, you do not even know these events have occurred. "


I find myself having a hard time beleiving a parent would do this.  It's something I'm not so sure I can comprehend.  But the fact is is that it does happen and I need to accept that but I dont have to agree with it.  I've even had therapist that have discredited this information because it is just so unbelievable.  Sad really.

=o)

[Anonymous]

There is no way to tell how many people out there in any given situation throughout the years have come away with the wrong impression of me based purely and completely on her lies and smear tactics.......

(you are speaking directly for me too here).

There is not enough time left in my life (let alone energy) to go around "setting the record straight"...... She has tried to damage my relationship with my......

(yes, my children, family, friends etc, and has done a great job of it, and I do not intend to waste my time, or energy attempting to clear up any misinformation because I would rather live my life and be happy, just to spite her)

... She has painted a distorted picture of me with her acquaintences and probably more strangers than I could even imagine.......... She told lies about me to all my family......made a great deal of it (my life)miserable....

(I can't predict if she has shortened it but you are probably right there)

She robbed me of some valuable stuff with respect to my relationship with my children. By the time I caught on to her monstrous ways.....

(and called her on it.  She went ballistic and became more vicious and damaging than imaginable and created some of her most venemous work, which she continued to spill onto whoever would listen)


........I just want to say to anyone out there who thinks this is a mental illness and these people cannot help themselves, you are wrong. This is a bad habit and a way of life that they plan and choose to live. It is all very deliberate and premeditated....

(as I too suspect).

DG:  You've hit so many nails on the head with your description.  This is all so very frustrating and instills great anger in all who endure such treatment.  It's good to vent and speak with a clear voice about the wrong that has been done to you (and by doing so, you have spoken for others who know similar experiences).

Thankyou and God bless.

[Anonymous]

I can relate to the experience of having a strong sense of intuition and insight about people and events.  And, yes, some of it may come from learning at a young age, to prepare for situations, and constantly observe and size them up.  I have also been very shy.  So, instead of engaging with people, I observe them for a long while before I decide who is save and who is not.  

I can also relate to the poster who mentioned difficulty and the importance of trusting your intuition.  I have a strong sense of intuition, and trusting it is another story.  I am constantly denying my experience or the significance of it.  Intuition can be used to our advantage.  It lets us know when we our physical or emotional well being is threatened.  But when you are in an N environment, it becomes very difficult to trust your intuition.  You are constantly told that your experience is irrelevant, and that the N's experience is the only real thing, the only important thing to consider.  So, we with the gift of intuition, cannot trust it.  It is very difficult to work through.  THank you for bringing up this post.

[ch]

Hi everybody,

Another thing i found very useful to my healing was telling myself "HEY, DO NOT TAKE IT PERSONALLY."  Yes, it happened.  It was terrible.  I was victimized.  It ruined my childhood, and a big part of my adulthood as well.   But if it had not happened to me, it would have happened to another unfortunate innocent child born into my Nfamily. So, you see, its not personal.  I didn't cause it. And i didn't exacerbate it either.  I certainly cannot cure it.

The Nparent had their devious plans long before the children were born. I realized,  their NPD really has nothing to do with ME at all, as I am very sure that your NPD stories are also not about YOU personally either.  
Since reaching this point, my anger has subsided immensely.  Maybe this might help some of you?

ch

[Ellie]

Hi ch,
I almost agree with your post, but I want to ask your opinion about this situation.

What about those of us who were not what our Nparents wanted when we were born - doesn't that make it personal? Like I was supposed to be a boy, but wasn't, so Ndad was angry at Nmom and never accepted me for who I am, and Nmom was angry that I wasn't what Ndad wanted so it had to be my fault and I have felt the fall-out from it all of my life.

I'm really not trying to argue your point, I'm asking for an insight on this situation. I know that the way I was treated and still am treated is not really personal - Nparents treat anyone they hate this way. But they do not treat the other siblings as badly. So in that situation, is it not personal?

Sorry to appear argumentative - I detest disagreeing with anyone, but I'm trying to understand that it is ok to disagree and still be friends. So I really want your opinion and I'm practicing.  

[ch]

Hi Ellie,

First thing first.  you don't need to apologize or feel bad about disagreeing on the board.  It's ok.  we are sharing ideas and having discussions.  I really enjoy this alot.  I am in search of alot of answers too.

I too was supposed to be a boy. but i asked myself, "what control do you,as a fetus, have over your own gender?"  "and how were you supposed to know what your parents wanted before you were born?"  you mean it was our job, as a zygote or embryo to know and to fulfill those desires of our parents?"  NO WAY!  Phooey!!

I was treated very badly by my male-worshipping patriarchal family because i was a girl.  After almost a decade as an only child, enduring child abuse, my sister was born, quickly followed by a brother--the sole heir to the family throne!!

One day, my aunt revealed that my sister got a good deal and was treated better than me because she brought good luck to the family by bringing on the birth of our brother.   I couldn't believe such hogwash.  But it was true in terms of how favoritism was used toward my sister and brother, and using me as the scapegoat.

Still, i do not take it personally because their irrational thinking is illogical.  I did not cause another girl to be born into the family!!!  i am not bad luck!!!  I was used as a scapegoat simply because i did not conform to their wicked ways.  I liked to reveal the truth.  I stood up and challenged them.

Fortunately, i was smart and wise for my age, so i understood the favoritism was only a disguise for something unhealthy.  I did not do much to intervene and to disrupt this unhealhty family system because i knew such efforts would be futile and wasted. Instead, i turned my energy toward academics, and focused on friendships with neighbors and teachers.

So, you see, i still don't take it personally.  
Sometimes, i wonder, how another girl would have handled things in my position.  Would she have been tougher?  or softer and been more victimized.  I just know for sure that it was not my fault that i am a girl, and that i am who i am--pretty damn smart with inner strength.  And honestly, i have always felt lucky, even during the worst times.  

Since learning of NPD as the culprit of many if not all of the things that went wrong with my childhood, i understand why someone like me, who looks so good and normal on the outside, for some strange reason, cannot seem to thrive.  Now, i understand why.  Now, i can start to recover.  

ch

[Ellie]

Thanks so much for the explanation. You and I are very much alike!

I had 2 sisters and was the middle. I and everyone who knew me blamed my being the 'black sheep' of the family on just that - being the middle child. So for years that's what I always said when someone would ask why I was not spending a holiday with my family or having family over for holidays. I said "oh I'm the middle child and just never did fit in".

But after years of becoming the real me and seeking a fulfilling life on my own - of course the disgrace from the family went along with this - 'you cannot think for yourself and have a life without us, you can't get along without us...".

But like you, I got into academics, sports, and learning to enjoy the things in life I loved, even though no one else supported me. I became a loner when it came to family, but had a wealth of friends and many activities I loved!

I became somewhat prosperous for a child that was brought up to be frugal and live like a pauper. I was single until 27 so I had a few wonderful vacations and just lived life up! This behavior was regarded by my family as extravegant, show off, coming across as better than them, etc.

My H has been very successful in his career and is a high level manager. I have a great job in IT and my family says we are too good for them. I realize now that this is all just cop-outs for them because they just don't want to admit they don't like me/us. But I've also realized I can't stand them either. I can't stand to be around them, hear their wining, see their disgusting anul behaviors and it's fine with me that we stay seperate.

For years I felt so much guilt for not being able to measure up to their expectations like my sisters did, and it did not make sense because I was the only one to graduate from college the first to purchase a new home, my own car, and vacation in exciting places. I was the only one to have male kids also. All of these things made the Nparents more angry. I was SO confused why I couldn't make them appreciate my life when all they could do was tell me how much a failure I am.

After learning about Ns I realized they were the ones they saw as a failure and were porjecting onto me. I don't really take it all personally but I do. Sometimes I am just so confused, but I've come to realize if I just stop thinking about them, and stop trying to figure it all out, it starts to make perfectly good sense.

I am so different from all of them ONLY because I allowed myself to think for myself, refuse to listen to them early in life, refuse to obey their stupid rules after I becamse an adult, and continued to seek a fulfilling life for me and my family. If my Nparents hate me for this, it is their problem. I am perfectly happy with mine.

Lately I've been able to relish my rebellious nature and actually have started nuturing it instead of supressing it, thus the posts about H and I getting into motorcycles and the Harley culture.

Truer words have never been spoken than your last paragraph:

Since learning of NPD as the culprit of many if not all of the things that went wrong with my childhood, i understand why someone like me, who looks so good and normal on the outside, for some strange reason, cannot seem to thrive. Now, i understand why. Now, i can start to recover.

[ch]

Ellie,
You are doing a great thing by nurturing your rebellious nature.
That is a real big part of you that was never allowed to fully come out, until now.  Don't forget.  YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!!!

I am a Harley fan too, but don't live in an area where i could enjoy such a sport.

[ch]

Just a thought...
would it help to give these patriarchal people a lesson on how sex is determined?  should we explain the workings of the x and y chromosomes?

This reminds me of the injust story of that fat French king, Henry the VIII, was it? who beheaded the queen who did not bear him any sons.

So many years after, it is appauling to see that society has not evolved much.