energy and the moment - good or bad?

[Dawning]

Is there anyone who felt the need, as a child...even now...to get at the truth of the moment?  And if so, how did you do it?  I still feel that the only way I can experience *reality* is in the moment..  I think, in  a way, this is good but it is not if I can't connect with my own energy.  Can anyone relate?

[BlueTopaz]

Hi Dawning,

I think I can relate, though I'm not completely sure if it is what you are referring to.

As I child and adolescent, I was always calling out my mother’s “truths” without even realizing that was what I was doing at the time.  I was just being natural, and telling what I saw behind it all.  I was livng the reality of the moment...  The problem was that I hadn’t yet developed the ability to discern when to speak up and how much to say, and  the things I said caused a lot of tension between us.   I honestly didn’t understand why at the time (I do now) because I just thought that everybody thought and expressed core truths, or "realities of the moment".  

As an adult, I can often see the truth of what is going on behind peoples words, thoughts, behaviors, and I have had to decide whether to respond to the true energy/messages I get, or the “façade” of the way the world works communicatively, behaviorally, emotionally…  

I understand the masks now, but when I was younger I actually literally had trouble communicating with people because what they were saying did not match “the truth” or the energy I felt behind it, and I did not know how to handle the mixed messages.  I thought something was mentally wrong with me.   Now I know it is just a natural perceptive ability.

Knowing makes things better in many ways, but I still can get frustrated at not operating at the levels of the reality of the moment.  

Again, it sounded like you might be talking about this kind of thing, but I’m not sure if what I mentioned is really what you are referring to….

I still feel that the only way I can experience *reality* is in the moment

Well, this is exactly what many spiritual seekers and teachers say, and advocate trying to do!  Present moment/reality living is something written about a lot, but the particular way you word it above, sounds very much like the work of one of my fav. “present moment” authors/books:  “Eckhart Tolle”- “The Power of Now”…    

He says that the only way to experience reality is to live within the present moment, and that the way that the human mind ruminates on the past, and worries on future possibilities, is actually an illness of humanity, and a form of insanity.    I have to say, I do see his point… though what he proposes (consistent present moment living) is extremely hard to do, as he notes himself.

As far as connecting with your own energy, I’m not sure if you mean that you block it from yourself.  I know I do that with my own.  I self connect very well in some areas but in others I create mental diversions, and put up a wall that keeps me from experiencing my own energy and feelings, because those are the ones that feel bad (scary, painful, helpless, hopeless)...    

I think the way to self-connect more deeply is to gather up the courage to walk through the difficult emotions <gulp>...    It's tiring emotionally & spiritually, so done in increments over time...   I've done it on and off but have always reverted back to the wall up.   I'm not sure when I might have the strength and courage to stay with it.  

Because of some personal things going on, maybe/hopefully soon!

BT

[Dawning]

Hi BT     I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear.  This is a hard topic for me.  I always learned to be resilient in my childhood.  And I learned that to be in the moment was where you could really *feel* something authentic away from the N influence.  But *the gods*/my parents seemed to want to control everything.  The *moment* was all I seemed to have.

I will re-read your post tomorrow morning.  (yawn...JST)

[Dawning]

Hi BT.  

I understand the masks now, but when I was younger I actually literally had trouble communicating with people because what they were saying did not match “the truth” or the energy I felt behind it, and I did not know how to handle the mixed messages. I thought something was mentally wrong with me. Now I know it is just a natural perceptive ability.

I had a similar experience.  I've also been to some sites having to do with being an HSP.  Thank you for mentioning HSP stuff on this board.  I still see the masks very clearly everyday and, frankly, have very little tolerance for the mask-wearers who do so to get attention....that is Nism to me.  Of course, we all have to be professional, reliable, etc in our jobs (for example) but, to me, this is more like assuming a stance that one would need to be taken seriously and is not the same thing as Nism.   I also grew up thinking something was wrong with me - I was raised by an N Regime.  

He says that the only way to experience reality is to live within the present moment, and that the way that the human mind ruminates on the past, and worries on future possibilities, is actually an illness of humanity, and a form of insanity.

Hmmm.. does he have anything to say about goal-setting?  Goal-setting is truly one of my weak points.  I am fine in the moment but often let the circumstances of the moment be decided by some other *mysterious power.*  In other words, I could not understand - still cannot - where my own power lies to change the circumstances of the moment.  Whew...I hope that makes sense...a little.  

As far as connecting with your own energy, I’m not sure if you mean that you block it from yourself.

I have spent most of my life blocking the healthy expression of the energy.  I feel that is related to being heavily involved in the here and now too much if that makes any sense.  Is *having needs* a form of energy?

Have you read the Artist's Way?  I've heard good things about it.

Thanks for your reply.

[seeker]

Hi Dawning,

Yes, major daydreamer here!    One of my past Ts told me about HSP as well.  That's me!  

My teachers commented on this constantly to my parents when I was little.  Now that I'm all grown up and still daydream, I think it is partly due to my temperament and partly due to tuning out the verbal abuse from either my bro or my father (when he was around).  I have also noticed recently that if someone disagrees with my opinion during a group discussion, I tune out because I start justifying my position in my own head instead of outloud (is that N?   ).  Kind of shut down.

I have read the Artist's Way and recommend it highly!!  I have also discovered a small little paperback recently called Nasty People.  He talks about a concept called introverting (basically the "huh?" response) when Nasty People start in on their crazymaking.  Instead of calling NPs immediately on the truth, we HSPs start getting defensive and doubtful and retreat inside ourselves.  I do this constantly as well.  

Peace, Seeker

[bunny]

Is there anyone who felt the need, as a child...even now...to get at the truth of the moment?  And if so, how did you do it?  I still feel that the only way I can experience *reality* is in the moment..  I think, in  a way, this is good but it is not if I can't connect with my own energy.  Can anyone relate?

What kind of moments are you referring to? If I'm taking a shower, I don't feel much of a need to get to the truth. But if I'm getting frustrated with another person, I might want to be more clear about the situation.

bunny

[BlueTopaz]

Hi Dawning,

Hmmm.. does he have anything to say about goal-setting? Goal-setting is truly one of my weak points. I am fine in the moment but often let the circumstances of the moment be decided by some other *mysterious power.* In other words, I could not understand - still cannot - where my own power lies to change the circumstances of the moment. Whew...I hope that makes sense...a little.  

It makes sense.  Sometimes I can do this (with smaller, and trivial issues) but when it comes to the big picture and planning impt. things in my life, I have a lot of trouble doing long term goals, and I also can "freeze up" and feel blocked in a moment where I have the chance to implement change.   I think part of the issue for me is decision making.  I have soooo much trouble with this!       It might be a part of what blocks both my power in the moment, and planning long term goals.

I wonder if underlying causes are because I have a lot of anxiety around big changes, and desire the comfort of what I would consider "security" very much.  

Unfortunately, the book does not talk about goals.  I am looking for good online info. about goal-setting myself, right now.  If I find good goal info., I will post it here.   I think goal setting is such an important thing, and I would love to get a handle on doing it...

I have spent most of my life blocking the healthy expression of the energy. I feel that is related to being heavily involved in the here and now too much if that makes any sense. Is *having needs* a form of energy?

I’m not sure if you mean this  (you are not being unclear at all as you wondered last time…I keep saying that because what we are talking about is naturally very individually subjective) but one of the ways I create a diversion to energies I don’t want to face in some way, is to distract myself with what is going on in the moment.  It numbs what I’m really feeling, and I never have to face it because I'm too busy with the goings on of the moment.  

You really just made me think of something so interesting…. That being in the present can either be the healing thing that is written about by many, or can also be used in an unhealthy way.   I never thought of the second thing before.

 If the “here and now” was very tumultuous all the time (i.e. childhood), maybe you mean that the crises of the moment were so overwhelming that they never allowed for any kind other (inner) focus aside from the present moment, and as an adult you just got used to operating that way.  

Your question is interesting… I think personally, yes… that our needs are a form of energy that is a combination and accumulation of all kinds of other inner energies, like our intent, our pains, our fears, our hopes, our “spiritual” voice, etc…  

Have you read the Artist's Way? I've heard good things about it.

I haven’t, but since you say you have heard good things about it, and Seeker has endorsed it too, I will definitely look for some information online related to it.  Thanks for mentioning it.

BT

[Dawning]

Hi BT, bunny, seeker etc.

I grew up made to feel guilty for having needs.  I could give lots of examples but maybe members of the board can relate.  Can you?

So I now see that the way I got my needs met for *being alive* was always in the present moment.  I couldn't see backwards or forwards.  But now I can see backwards but I can't see foreward.  I want to but I can't.  There is where I lack focus and motivation but not seeing forward was also a survival mechanism.  I had dreams but I never thought it was possible that they could come true.  The old program is I didn't plan on any of this happening but it has and its my responsibility and only mine to change it.  

Thanks for giving me the forum to express this in.

[Anonymous]

Hi Dawning,

Yes, boy, can I ever relate to this!

I grew up made to feel guilty for having needs.

My Ndad would become impatient, angry, or start raging depending on how big the request and his state of mind at the moment you dared to ask.  One of my breakthroughs in T was describing a panic attack and was asked why I was uncomfortable.  I blurted out: don't think less of me because I need something!

My seeing forward is not very helpful.  It is mostly fantasy, daydreamy what I want to be when I grow up type stuff.  Not goal setting.  I also never tell anyone my plans because I don't want to expose myself, so to speak.  I don't want to incur jealousy or ridicule.

Thanks Dawning.  You hit one of my nails on the head!  Seeker.

[Ellie]

Hi Dawning,
As I started reading this thread I couldn't relate. But your last post hit home!


You said:

I had dreams but I never thought it was possible that they could come true. The old program is I didn't plan on any of this happening but it has and its my responsibility and only mine to change it.

Wow, what a statement.

Growing up, I was told I could not have dreams - I had to be what the Nparents dreamed for me. That is why we have no relationship now. I didn't want to live my life the way they wanted it lived. I stepped out and soon learned that there were dreams to be dreamed, life to be lived. But the guilt!!! UUUGGGHHH!!!

Nmom has always said that if she can't envision it for me, it cannot be done. I have now done many things she said were not to be part of my life and that is why I am such a bad, bad person to them!

But getting the strength to step out and live those dreams was not an easy thing to do. I think that is why I am having so many issues now that I have cut off my family. I still hear the voices telling me I can't live my dreams. I fight a battle every day of my life seperating my own thoughts from Nparents voices in my head. I think we all go through this.

Maybe that is why you are struggling at looking forward - you are stuck with voices telling you not to look ahead and do what you want, you want to do the right thing and you hear voces telling you the right thing is to do what you've been conditioned to do - not what you want, you hear voices telling you that you do not deserve to dream and get what you want.

Shutting the voices off seems impossible but drowning and muffling the voices with other things that they really do not care about, then stepping out and doing what you want to do, maybe is doable.


You said:

I grew up made to feel guilty for having needs. I could give lots of examples but maybe members of the board can relate. Can you?

Can I ever relate!
If I got sick - then I was getting in their way of their daily lives.
If I needed new clothes, then I was taking money from their pocket.
If I wanted to go somewhere then I was putting them out.
If I did something they didn't approve of then I was intentionally trying to hurt them.
The list is too long and depressing

This whole subject ties into my b-day yesterday. I relived memories of drepressing, ugly b-days in the past because I was not supposed to be allowed any attention. So having a b-day required them to find a way to give me attention. But they refused this so they got MAD that it was my b-day and told me NEVER to tell people it was my b-day because it is terrible to bring attention to yourself. BUT they expected lots of attention on their b-days. I always saw Me (not everyone else in my life) but ME having a birthday was a burden to all around me and I should not expect anything.

So when someone tries to do something special for me I get embarrassed and try to get out of the limelight. I actually try to sabotage the plans so they cannot go through with them so I do not have to feel guilty for getting attention - writing this I realize how sick it all is but I can't help myself! 45 years of conditioning!!!!!

But if they don't do anything special for me, I cry all day. Someday I'll get over this one. But having b-days are being NEEDY in my family!

[Anonymous]

In my family, children's needs were squashed and rejected. Only the parents could have needs. As a result, I had insatiable needs but either squashed them myself or tried to get them met dysfunctionally.

I learned in my thirties, how to assess my needs and get them met in a halfway normal manner. And I keep getting better at it. It can be learned!

There are some things we can plan or anticipate and some things we can't. If you can distinguish which things are anticipate-able and which are random, you can start strategizing. For example, Ellie anticipated some behavior from her parents on her birthday so she planned ahead. If the behavior hadn't occurred, at least she was ready for it.

bunny

[BlueTopaz]

Hi all  

made to feel guilty for having needs.

My Ndad would become impatient, angry….

I had the same experiences, but with my X-N dating partner.

Something within my childhood had made me feel guilty/weird about expressing needs to others big time, and there I go of course, into a relationship with someone who reinforces that (ah.. the learning curve!   )  

Some small or surface needs he could handle okay, but not others.  I noticed the needs he couldn’t handle were the ones that built or required a deeper level of emotional intimacy. Someone placing needs upon them, which is a perfectly normal part of healthy, close relationships, seems to trigger aspects of their Nism.  

So I now see that the way I got my needs met for *being alive* was always in the present moment. I couldn't see backwards or forwards. But now I can see backwards but I can't see foreward. I want to but I can't. There is where I lack focus and motivation but not seeing forward was also a survival mechanism.

Thanks for your sharing Dawning.  That is so great how you are starting to piece all of this together.  If you have been able to see backwards where you couldn’t before, then over time, it seems as though you can be able to eventually see forward, too.       It’s really great how you are able to see that it was a survival mechanism.  Understanding the origin of it can help with sorting it all...  

Ellie-  I squirm inside when someone tries to do something special for me, as well.   I was thrown a big surprise b-day party about a decade ago, and it took me soooo long to recover inside from the fact that so many people came.  It was overwhelming, and felt soooo weird.  I cried my eyes out about it several times for months afterwards...  

I think a very related issue for me here, is feeling worthy, or deserving.  I know I've had a huge problem with that in the past, for most of my life.  It is getting better though.  I've said it before, but some things just seem to shift with mere age.   I am mid 30's and feel more fiesty and "deserving"

One area where this is still quite a problem though, is within romantic relationships.  I've noticed old insecurities popping up big time when I get asked out on dates.  I still have to grow boundaries and a strong back-bone of esteem, here.   Part of this is figuring out "who I am" in the context of romantic partnerships....   It seems obvious to say "you will just be who you are normally", but doesn't feel that simple.   Something within shifts...   I think it is that the dynamics of romantic relationships deeply trigger all of the childhood stuff...   Bring it all to the surface...

BT

[OnlyMe]

[Anonymous]

Dear Only Me.

I, too am in remission from Cancer.  I thank God for the cancer because it forced me to face one of my biggest fears.  Chemo and radiation and possible death.  But I did it.  I survived and came out a much stronger person.  Strong enough, in fact, to actually stand up to my Nparents.  You've been through so much with the CA.  Don't let unworthy people control your life and make you feel that YOU are unworthy.  God has healed you of your CA for a reason.  You are loved and worthy enough in His eyes to spare you of a horrible disease.  Run with it. You ARE worthy.  You ARE worth it.  Surround yourself with people who really love you.  I call them "blessed friends".  Forget about your projects.  Let it go and go with the flow.  Don't be  hard on yourself.  You will get to them when the time is right.  Love yourself.  Just like Dorothy, you have everything you need right now, this minute in your heart and soul.  Let yourself heal.   dinny

[OnlyMe]

Hi Dinny,
I had the surgery, radiation, chemo twice, lost my hair twice, etc...and I'm still here.  I fought hard to live, just as you did.



I know this group is about Voicelessness.
When we have not had a voice, it is awesome to be able to share our true feelings and experiences in a safe place, and thereby be able to help one another.
That is how we become strong, and survive all our pain and abuse.

~OnlyMe