PMs and Gossip

[wiltay]

PMs and Gossip

PM= Personal Message, aka as a PRIVATE conversation. It seems that on this board, to some people,  it is some sort  of a sin  to have a private conversation with someone else to exchange viewpoints.    In the book 1984, I believe private conversations were outlawed.  There seem to be people on this board who would be sympathetic with this.

   People have always gossiped about other people and they always will.  It's not a sin IMO, in fact it's quite natural.  Talking about other people can be as much to sing their praises as their faults.  It's a harmless human pastime and EVERYBODY DOES IT, except hypocrites.   Such exchanges of opinion can be valuable, and often mind-changing for the better.

   Gossip only becomes evil when it has an evil intent, which is typically to spread harmful LIES about someone you don't like in order to smear their reputation and damage their standing within the group in order to improve your own.  This has been done many times on this board.  It is the essence of negative campaigning and it not even considered evil in a political context, although I disagree.   Telling lies to damage someone is wrong, IMO.

 But speaking one's opinion about someone else in a private conversation is no one else's business, INCLUDING the person  being  talked about.  If I don't want to share my personal opinion of you, with you, that is my right.  And it may not be a bad idea to boot. Private conversations  are private.  Let's keep them that way.

[lupine]

 People have always gossiped about other people and they always will.  It's not a sin IMO, in fact it's quite natural.  Talking about other people can be as much to sing their praises as their faults.  It's a harmless human pastime and EVERYBODY DOES IT, except hypocrites.   Such exchanges of opinion can be valuable, and often mind-changing for the better.


Absolutely!  Gossip has a real value in our world.  And, it's interesting that you cite the positive praises as well as the negative.  My prior message about private messages sprang from my feeling quite vulnerable in my own community right now which meant I was feeling particularly vulnerable to the negative gossip.  So, I probably overstated the negatives of gossip.  I've had my nap and re-thought my words and think you are absolutely right.  The exception is that when I read a message and it states that a pm will be sent or has been received and that pm has an impact on my present state of mind which is sending a message to all of us but, of course, the pm cannot be made public since it is private.......that's when the entire thread enters the dead zone.  I can't begin to speculate what was or what was not said....I only know I was not picked to be part of the team.  So, why even mention it!!!  I know.  I am nitpicking. 

My real source of irritation is that I am part of the public school system which is in my community, anyway, master at don't see, don't tell, don't be accountable.  You have to discern from what is not said to tell what is going on.  (Hi Lupita!)  Gossip is the only way to find out what is really happening.  So, the subject of pms just set me off and again, it is more about my vulnerabilities then the board's. 

Anyway, thank you for showing the value of gossip...Actually, there is an article in Psychology today which talks about the same thing.  Did you write it!?

[Izzy_*now*]

Very good lupine,

You said what I was only ½-way into thinking!

Being left out, is the operative phrase!

When one is left out, i.e. ME, it triggers all sorts of childhood memories.  What a revelation for me!

Thanks Izzy

[Ami]

Thought provoking post, Bill. Thank you very much!     Love   Ami

[sea storm]

I agree that gossip is a common thing. This does not make it a healthy thing. I have heard gossip described as lateral violence and no matter how it is dressed up it is still a shabby show.  If someone is really irritating another person it  takes a lot of integrity to address that person directly and respectfully.  One may not have the skills to do so but it is the better path.

Trying to find out information second hand is the only way I can figure out how things are going in the vast bureaucracy where I work. This is a dismal way to communicate. So I end up gossiping to get the scoop.

People who are in unhappy relationships often talk about their mates and complain about them to others. This is not helpful. Inevitable but not productive.  There is no chance of working things out if problems aren't addressed. It is the old triangulating  mess.

So I try not to gossip. I try not to eat cheesecake or drive too fast.  But at least I am not kidding myself that gossip is ok.

That is my personal opinion.

Sea storm

[wiltay]

   There is benevolent gossip and evil gossip.  When you discuss how good someone looks with their new haircut and weight loss that is obviously pretty benevolent.  When you discuss about how rude you thought someone was to you in order to get someone else's perspective on it, that can be a constructive attempt to learn something.  But when you repeat a half-baked, unflattering,  half-the-truth version of what someone supposedly did you are spreading destructive rumors.  I would call that evil intent. You would never pass on such a thing about someone you liked.  It depends upon what's in your heart, doesn't it?

   PMs between friends and allies are private conversations meant to stay private.  They don't always stay that way, of course.  People forget confidences, they speak without thinking and then the cat is out of the bag. It happens without any evil intent.  I don't understand all the concern with what other people might be saying and thinking  in private conversations.  So what? Who cares?  Merely saying something doesn't make it true.  If one repeats everything one hears as 'the truth of the day' that is the real problem IMO. Then you are being just a dumb sheep, easily manipulated and used to spread lies, which you are clearly a party to.

[lupine]

It depends upon what's in your heart, doesn't it?

Aye, and there's the rub. 

I painted my house.  I asked lots of people what they thought of the colour.  The responses ranged from it's blue, it's purple, it's blue-grey, it's interesting, it certainly is different.....etc.

The worst thing I could do would be to ask someone I don't like/respect.  And the most honest thing I could do would be to ask everyone who drove by.  But, of course, that would be dependent on people who could afford a car which means they are in a similar socio-economic plateau as myself....which means they have a similar educational status...and on and on.

But if we all had the same house, and we all came to our painting project with the same amount of knowledge of paint, and none of us had a direct line to Martha Stewart, we could create and find our own answers.

If you want to pm/gossip, go ahead.  It does serve a purpose!!  When it is mentioned in a message that a pm is fueling the thread just by existing, you're leaving someone out (guess who  ).  Why would you want to do that?  Aren't you here to get lots of feedback from everyone?? 

[teartracks]

Hi Wiltay,

Private conversations  are private.

I'm thinking that within the most private of private conversations,  with the best of the best confidantes, discretion about what is spoken should never be discarded or left out. 

What do you think?

tt

[wiltay]

If you want to pm/gossip, go ahead.  It does serve a purpose!!  When it is mentioned in a message that a pm is fueling the thread just by existing, you're leaving someone out (guess who  Shocked).  Why would you want to do that?  Aren't you here to get lots of feedback from everyone??

Lupine, leaving people out of a private conversation is THE POINT of a private conversation!   I would also like to know how private messages can "fuel' a public thread when no one except the private parties know what they were talking about??

     No, I for one am *not* interested in getting feedback from everyone because based upon past experience I don't value all feedback equally.  There are many opinions on this board I don't give a fig for and that's a fact.  There are many people who feel the same way about MY opinions, it's also quite obvious. 

[wiltay]

I think people are human TT. They slip up. They do things without thinking and then later regret it. No doubt you have done the same thing many times yourself.  But is there a point you're trying to make here that I'm missing?  Please try to speak more directly if you want to converse with me. If you continue to play 'Guess what I'm REALLY saying?", I'm going to ignore you. 

Hi Wiltay,

Private conversations  are private.

I'm thinking that within the most private of private conversations,  with the best of the best confidantes, discretion about what is spoken should never be discarded or left out. 

What do you think?

tt

[teartracks]

Hi Wiltay,

I would find it most pleasant to be ignored by you    .

tt

[wiltay]

Ok, TT, whatever turns you on.  It's a deal.

Hi Wiltay,

I would find it most pleasant to be ignored by you    .

tt

[lupine]

At the least this would put your mind at ease

Ugh, Bean.....if it were only that simple.  My mind has never been entirely at ease....The curse of the cognitively aware...

I would also like to know how private messages can "fuel' a public thread when no one except the private parties know what they were talking about??

Hi Wiltay:  I don't know that pms fuel all conversations.  I'm just talking about the ones I am interested in or get involved in.  I mean like it really goes back to high school....when you confide in your best friend who then checks in with her other friends to get a new slant on the issue.  And then she talks to you as if it were just herself.  If I had wanted to ask the group, I would have put it out for the group!  Somehow, I trusted this friend to respond to me with authenticity that did not include sharing my concern with others. 

So, that is maybe a crude way of explaining why pms irritate me especially when one's message is couched in a disclaimer of having to check in with her/his intimate others in order to form an opinion which is then regurgitated to me.  I mean HELLO!

Yes, I am making a lot of assumptions here ... but I also have a sneaking suspicion that the slowness of the board has to do with all these pms.....We are choosing who to talk to????

I really liked this board because I thought (long ago) I was talking to a great variety of people and to hear their read on what I was saying was so helpful.  I mean like I got a great feedback on what I was saying or trying to say and the responses were so different.  They made me think.  (for me, that's always helpful....)

So....gossip is valuable....pms have their purpose....I suppose....but I still think that it is better to say it out loud.  At least, don't include the fact that you are having them in your message!!  Let me be blissfully unaware that there is only one person I am talking to.

Which is what started me off on this tangent to begin with. 

Now I digress....You could have been more sensitive to TT and toned down your do or else message.  And she could have been more direct in her communication with you.  As it is, the problem becomes who is going to give in first and if you both decide you are on the higher road, you have just cut off contact with someone who might
be helpful in some way....See,  I put it out there for everyone!!!!  sometimes we are so diligent in our boundaries, we lose the forest while battling the trees...May I take my own advice

[gjazz]

If PM= private conversation, nobody except those involved would EVER know it took place.  Correct? 

[wiltay]

Of course.  It's private business and no one else's business,  period.    I can't see what is so complicated about this.  But there seems to be a level of paranoia here that I just don't understand.  Is it a fear of secret conspiracies taking place in the dark?  But conspiracies to do what?  I don't get it.   

If PM= private conversation, nobody except those involved would EVER know it took place.  Correct?