Author Topic: Words  (Read 5216 times)

Izzy_*now*

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Re: Words
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2008, 12:44:28 PM »
hi Sela,
Yes w/c dancing in the Rehab hospital was fun. It was an exercise for us as well, but have never seen any advertised w/c dancing.

The "all grand change" in square dancing has been a great help in opening a door, spinning in and grabbing the next door to open, works so smoothly.

Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

Sela

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Re: Words
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2008, 08:40:40 PM »
Too funny Iz!

I'll google and see what comes up.

 :D Sela

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Re: Words
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2008, 09:32:47 PM »
Thanks for that happy thought Carolyn!

I've been thinking about it and especially about: 
Quote
vague-proof

Maybe that's the key for me?  Maybe.....when I hear/sense/see confusing double-talk-code-embedded messages....
Maybe that's when I need to stop and put up the steel heart shield....consider the source....etc.?
Maybe then, I will not feel pain first and think second?
Maybe that's the recipe I've been searching for?

I think so, Sela...
using the Ick-Factor as a guide.

Some folks speak confusion simply because they're confused, or shy, or fearful of being direct...
no steel-shield needed there, I don't guess.

But when you feel slimed as someone's being vague...
that's a pretty good indication that it's time to raise that shield, I'd say!

Love,
Carolyn

Sela

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Re: Words
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2008, 11:31:47 AM »
Hi Carolyn,

At first I thought:  "Oh no!!  Another thingy to decipher!"  but then I realized:

Quote
Some folks speak confusion simply because they're confused, or shy, or fearful of being direct...

Yes and it seems obvious when that happens.  Their body language matches their words and there's no contradiction.  There's no twitch in their eye or tilt to their head.  No weird vibes in the air.  Ya know?

And people who care or love me don't want to upset me.  Their goal is to communicate not to confuse. 

Let that be a lesson to me!!  I sure hope huge red warning lights will flash and loud bells will start ringing, the next time I feel confused and then discover that malice!!  And I hope I can come up with a firm but respectful response too!!

I can sense that desire to hurt.  I just don't understand it.

Sela

PS: on edit......whenever I think I have made a bunch of spelling mistakes......spell check tells me different.  :shock:
But when I think my spelling is fine........guess what spell check says??  :oops:
In this case.....it was the first case.  Go figger?


« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 11:40:55 AM by Sela »

Certain Hope

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Re: Words
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2008, 11:37:46 AM »
Quote
I can sense that desire to hurt.  I just don't understand it.

Yes... I guess "they" have decided that someone must be punished...
and they've decided you're it...
and they're just the ones to carry out the sentence.

Pretty presumptuous, eh?

Hugs, Sela

Carolyn

Sela

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Re: Words
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2008, 11:52:04 AM »
Yes, Carolyn.

Also......that over-stepping of boundaries and taking of liberties......makes me wonder:

Why?  Why do "they" do that?  What drives "them"?  (and I'm not talking about anything accidental.  that I can handle.  It's that desire to hurt that I just don't get.  :?).  What causes that desire?

Sela

(now I'm starting to feel very sorry for such a person because I suspect the answer might be that they have been deeply wounded and unable to cope in an acceptable way.  :( :().  It's a reason to pray for one's enemies, I think.

Certain Hope

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Re: Words
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2008, 12:19:00 PM »
Yes, Carolyn.

Also......that over-stepping of boundaries and taking of liberties......makes me wonder:

Why?  Why do "they" do that?  What drives "them"?  (and I'm not talking about anything accidental.  that I can handle.  It's that desire to hurt that I just don't get.  :?).  What causes that desire?

Sela

(now I'm starting to feel very sorry for such a person because I suspect the answer might be that they have been deeply wounded and unable to cope in an acceptable way.  :( :().  It's a reason to pray for one's enemies, I think.

Well...  so many possibilities! Or maybe they're all just manifestations of the same issue? 
Just speaking generally here, Sela... with a conglomeration of my own experience in mind...

they don't know where they leave off and you begin... ;
they consider you their personal property...   ;                   
you are an object, to them, designed to meet their needs and desires...;
they're incapable of introspection and self awareness, so they spend all their time trying to meddle in your life.

Without appropriate boundaries, the wounder doesn't even see you as "other"...
you are just a face in the mirror which must be eradicated.

Or... if envy is driving it... you must be eradicated because you remind the wounder of all that she is not?

Why don't they just walk away, Sela? That's the part I don't get. Why must they stalk and continue stabbing at the air?
Because you have faced something with which they refuse to deal...
and the very fact that you exist is what fuels their rage.

Sela, I think it's rage from which the hurt has been dissociated.... often never to be reunited... because the person refuses to ever be vulnerable again, and so there can never be healing.
Feel sorry, yeah.... from a great distance.

Love,
Carolyn





Sela

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Re: Words
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2008, 12:59:56 PM »
That's probably right Carolyn.

Still, makes me feel sad  :( for that person.  My father was such a person.  Full of rage (and he kept it well hidden, when necessary).  He was nasty and cruel.  I never understood it but vowed (even as a small child) to NOT be like him.  And ya.....feel sorry but at a distance.  Yep.  I did that.

I don't think I am like him.  I've felt rage at times but managed to release it.  I've been envious but not wanting to hurt or belittle or control or eliminate the person.  I'm no saint either.  I just don't have a desire for revenge and to cause pain (or whatever that is?).

Yes, why don't they walk away?  I think what you wrote is exactly why.  I've seen that recently with my sil (sister in law).  She refuses to help my mil (mother in law) in any way, unless it suits her.  Would you believe she wrote herself a cheque (from mil's book)....to pay for parking at the hospital....while mil was there recovering from a stroke?  She has a good income and doesn't need the money.

Greed seems to be a big theme too, come to think of it!  "They" are sooooo greedy!!

Here's one of those convo's that shocked me.  I had offered to attend a care conference for fil (father in law), who is in a nursing home.  Sil agreed and I said I'd report back if there was anything new (these are rather unexciting meetings between the staff and mil, never sil, tho I've gone with mil before, in which they update fil's care and the progress of his dementia...they talk about the drugs and what to increase/decrease, his weight gain/loss, etc.  Nothing really exciting).

Anyway, on the morning of the meeting, I get a call from sil:

sil:  "Hello Sela.  Change of plans.  You won't be going to the meeting.  I'll be going."

me:  "Oh..........would you like me to go with you?  I can go if you like?"

sil:  "Nope.  It's my place.  Ok?  Goodbye!"

Click.


Her place eh?  I think her place was to bring her mother fresh fruit when she complained of hunger.  Maybe visit her every day (since she lives 5 min from the hospital and I live 35 min drive away)?  Offer to take her mother home, since she has a fully equipped appartment that she could easily have shared in her house.  At least, take her for a week end to give us a bit of relief (which she did....once.....when hubby coaxed....at Christmas....and she treated mil like crap and told her:  "There won't be a next time!").

There won't be a next time?   :shock: :shock: :x :x :x  What a mean thing to say!!! 

And when mil asked sil recently if mil could stay over night, one night, to do some packing and not have to drive all the way back out to our place (Yay!!  Mil is driving again!!  Yay for independance!!!).  Sil's response:

"The bed is broke".

Hahahahahaha!!  That would be halarious if it wasn't so pathetic!! 

I think sil's place......would be to actually call.......once in awhile to see how mil is doing?  Maybe offer to help pack up mil's house with her, which is now sold and must be emptied by July 31st.  But who's place is it pack up the house?  And who is helping?  What does sil say about me to mil?

"Sela's too involved!""

You bet I am!!  That's exactly what makes her look so bad eh?  Makes her so envious!  The fact that I am bothered to care for her mother more than she is! 

Very sad.   :(  Very selfish!!   :x  Me me me..... me, me, me......me me me...me me!!

I can see exactly why my very existance fuels sil's rage. 

What I hate.......is how it hurts.....mil.   :( :( :(



Rather a rant there.  Feels better.    Thanks.


Sela

on edit:  But walk away?  Oh no, no, no!!  Too busy protecting her inheritance!!

Sil took mil out to see fireworks and for pizza, at sil's house, the other night.  At her convenience.  Tough stuff eh?
Order a pizza.

Double edit:  Do I feel sorry for sil?

Actually.....yes, I do.  I feel very sad to think of what she's missing by the way she treats her mother.   Not just her mother either.  People.  Lot's of people. 

Anyhow.....like you say.....keep my distance is all I can do to avoid her wrath.  I can just imagine what's gonna happen when mil passes away.  :roll:  It won't be pretty, I bet.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 01:12:10 PM by Sela »

Certain Hope

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Re: Words
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2008, 08:28:11 PM »
(((((((Sela))))))) that is some nasty business.

At least you can enjoy your dear mother-in-law while she's here and treasure your time together.

That other woman can't. She can't truly find pleasure in anything. All she has is a heart-full of misery.

I wouldn't want to be within 100 miles of that s-i-l of yours when it's over.
Not for anything.
It surely will not be a pretty sight. 

Carolyn


Sela

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Re: Words
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2008, 10:40:41 PM »
Thanks for the hug Carolyn.  Yes, yes and yes.  I just hope my mil will live long enough to enjoy her new condo and take part in the activities, make some new friends and take it easy....have some fun.  Her new place is 1/2 way between my house and work so I can check on her or run errands easily.  God Knows sil won't do it.

Anyhow, see how I reacted to sil's  "You won't be going to the meeting.  I'll be going." ???

I was shocked.  :shock:
Confused.  :?
And dopey........."I can go if you like"

If she wanted me to go, she wouldn't be phoning to tell me .......order me.....not to go.
So I didn't get the message until I hung up the phone (it was so quick and so cold.....her tone).

I just feel ......like such a dummy when I do that.

It feels good to just say that.  Not sure I'll ever react any better.  If I wanted to give her such a message, I would have been polite and chit chatted a little.  Told her I appreciated her desire and offer to help but that I'd decided I should go myself.  I get all messed up when people act like her and wonder if I'll ever be able to get the message before saying something really stupid.  :oops:

I feel like the only one who is so dense like that sometimes.

((((((hug back))))))

(I don't expect anyone to have a cure for this either).

Thanks for reading

Sela

Certain Hope

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Re: Words
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2008, 11:23:13 PM »
Aww, Sela... back up a couple steps, okay?

Shocked.... yes.
Stop there, alright?

I'm real familiar with confusion and dopeyness and they don't describe you... or me!
And yet I know exactly what you're saying. I do the same thing.
It's just the shock which causes a system shut-down.
Do you know, I can even get a form of blindness... it's like I stop seeing what's right smack in front of me.
It's a "this does not compute" / red flag / warning, warning / overload... ptsd type reflexive reaction.

I think it's fear.
So quick and cold...   I don't know how a person can prepare for that, really.
What would it take?
Would you have to make yourself as cold and heartless as she is?
Yuck!

How about this?
She says her spiel and you are silent.
She hangs up.

You go to the care conference anyhow.
She says "I thought I told you..."
You smile and reply, "You said 'goodbye' so quickly, I guess you didn't hear me say, 'see you there, sis'.

I know it's too late for this particular scenario, but there will surely be a next time.
Point is - ignore her blahblahblah and go ahead and follow through on your plans.
Then, when she try to pull one of her little stunts, you'll remember just how impotent her words are.... and you will be immune, because her empty words had no impact on your actions! And that's what counts. Actions.

What do you think?

Love,
Carolyn

Izzy_*now*

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Re: Words
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2008, 11:45:45 PM »
Oh I like that Carolyn

I wonder how many of us think of the "spot on" reply after it is too late. It is not a denseness that belongs to just once person, Sela.  I have been through that whole businees myself, and wondered why I was so dense.

It is because we are not expecting the N-isms! We didn't know about them. Anyone agree? and maybe our parents never experienced them so we had no warning and, if so, we had no warning for our children: for a pleasant but snappt reply!

Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

Certain Hope

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Re: Words
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2008, 04:45:32 PM »
Hi, Izzy and Sela... I've been thinking about this so much, and you know - I really don't ever want to be so attuned to N'isms and N'istic attitudes that I can snap off a quick retort in response to one. That just feels like a situation of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".... and I don't even want to go there.

In fact, I really do think there's alot of peace in just making up one's mind to NOT react, but rather take whatever time is necessary to process situations and then to thoughtfully respond, as appropriate.

Mindful choices.

Love,
Carolyn

Sela

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Re: Words
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2008, 09:50:55 PM »
Oh thankyou, thankyou both Carolyn and Izzy.

I do feel so much better after reading what you both wrote.

Izzy, I don't feel like the only one, which is a big thing for me.  I feel less "crazy", ya know?

And Carolyn, you are soooo right!! (I do soooooo agree....I guess that's a better way to say it).

I really, really, really do not want to stoop to "their" level.  I'd rather say something totally silly or nothing at all ....than something equally as cold and mean!!    That helps sooo much.  Thankyou again.

Quote
I'm real familiar with confusion and dopeyness and they don't describe you... or me!

I agree with this statement too.  I guess what I mean is that I feeeeeeeeeeeeel stupid.   That's maybe a bit goofy but it is what I have felt when I've been (I call it)......N'd.

Anyhow......I need to fix my thinking there so I don't get that feeling and embrace the idea that no matter what I say.......it won't be as nasty or as cold or mean or cruel or rude or inconsiderate......

as what "they" said.

It might even be dopey because even though I don't think I'm a stupid person, I know I do make mistakes or poor choices and say stupid things sometimes.  I can live with that.  I wouldn't want to be thaaaaaaaat perrrrrrrrrrrrrfect anyhow.

So there!!

(((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

Sela