Here we go again - weight and smoke

[axa]

Hi,

This topic is so boring for some of you I am sure but for those who struggle or are interested in these issues I would like if you could get involved with this topic.

I have managed to put on so much weight again.  My routine of taking care of myself has collapsed or more accurately, I stopped doing it.  It seems like the perpetual struggle of the co-dep.  I was looking so good six months ago, healthy, slim, with lots of energy and I have fallen back into the old pattern of over eating and smoking.  I have struggled always with smoking.  I feel so satisfied when I smoke or eat.......I love both.  I know that these are mechanisms for self soothing and very destructive ones but I am well and truly hooked again on both.  I will write more, maybe later today, but I wanted to put this out there and try and address it.  The bottom line is that I feel complete filled with food and smoke.  I do not want to live like this - I know some of you have struggled and continue to struggle with these issues.

I wanted to start my own thread on these issues as I want to focus on them and give myself a chance.

with thanks

axa

[Ami]

Dear Axa
 I don't have weight or smoking issues, but I DO have co-dependent ones. I hope my opinion is OK.I went to Al-Anon for 13  years and never really "got it",in the gut, about what a co-d was.I just "got it", yesterday. I understood an old joke . It was "When a co-d dies, s/one else's life flashes in front of their eyes"
I realized that I was trying to manage and control outside people for my own identity.
 It was a surprise to see,but a relief.
  In my healthiest days, people were companions, not makers of my reality. *I* was my major reality and shared myself with them, rather than needed them for basic fuel. I am slowly healing.
 My life has been unmanageable b/c I was living it from the outside in, not the inside out. They call this outer locus of control. Inner locus of control is the healthy way.I have wonderful people to love ,in my life. My problem is making myself solid.
 For me, exercise is  a place of relaxation and escape. It is one of the most enjoyable things ,in my life. I get in to a zone, where I am almost in a meditative state. I ride the bike and talk on the phone or listen to music or tapes.             Ami

[gratitude28]

AXA!!!!!!!!!!!
So happy to see you here.
I know what you mean about the struggle with both food and cigarettes. I am a closet smoker who quits every move and then finds a way to incorporate it again. Problem is, I don't want my kids to know, so I do it after bed, in the morning, whatever. I also don't want anyone else to know, so It becomes a huge bother to find a time/place. I never admit I do it - as if I don't admit it, it doesn't exist.
Food hasn't been as much of an issue with me lately, but I go through comfort phases and eat whatever I want for long periods and them have to change it all and start over. I am doing a bit better with it now, as I am really enjoying exercise and it has taken away some of the desire.
Axa, I think we do it because it is an addiction, and addictions are very comforting and comfortable. If we have a need we can fulfill easily, it is gratifying, at least for the moment. I think all of us have some level of need like this, just some of us take it a bit too far.
Is there anything - a hobby, an exercise - that would fill you with excitement now and remove some of those urges? I really think that is part of the key - not trying to deny, but trying to replace with things that are exciting, but better for you.
It is great that you are here and "owning up" as that means you are ready for a change. I was thinking about perusing the American Heart Association page to see how terrible smoking really is for the body. Maybe that will scare some sense into me.
Lots of love,
Beth

[sKePTiKal]

Hi Axa....

I am currently immersed in the same topic/work. I just spent 90 minutes with a friend, who's wife is at the very beginning of the all this process... so forgive me, if the first post is a bit short. They BOTH need someone to listen... someone who understands.

My smoking - and eating for comfort, too - is just how I am comfortable dealing with my own emotions. Under that "smokescreen"... there are some very strong, still not completely resolved emotions (all 4 in fact): anger, grief, shame & love.

I truly thought I was past that, but I'm finding that there is another level I'm either leaving or progressing to, or both.

I'll be back later to try to explain more about what I'm going through. Maybe some of it will apply to you - maybe not. You wrote, what I think is a valuable "clue" for you (maybe me too): you feel complete overeating/smoking. But I have to look at that for a bit, you know?

[axa]

Amber,

I wonder if I will ever be past it.  It is such a struggle.  I have been thinking about the completeness I feel when I overeate and smoke.  It feels very basic, taking away that sense of starvation.  Writing this makes me feel very young and sad.  I am aware that to love others one has to have the capacity to love oneself but to love oneself you has to have felt loved.  It feels like trying to bake a cake without the ingredients - not possible.  Loving and caring for myself is a constant battle.  I think I am missing the basic tools and that explains my gratitude for any old thing that is thrown my way.  It helps me understand why I have accepted fake love from Ns because I have not known real unconditional love, so how could I recognise it, othe than reading signals like "I love you" etc.  I listen to the words all the time.  I think Ami spoke of the external locus of control.  I know this to be true, it is always outside of me.  My internal barometer does not work.  I know I want something that makes me feel whole and in the absence of anything else being available I use food and smoke.  Unfortuantely, understanding this does not change it.  Discipline as a form of self care has popped into my head......... would anyone like to discuss this theme, I feel it could help as I struggle with discipline and routine all the time.

axa

[sKePTiKal]

What do you mean about struggling with routine? You can't follow a routine - or you have routines you're not comfortable changing?
I'm interested in looking at routines... they're like mini-programs on a computer... that have a very limited purpose... but I'm wondering if sometimes routines become ends in and of themselves? Do they accomplish the purpose? Or simply comfort & soothe?

Discipline... YUCK! To me that always sounds like punishment.
But I know what you mean: limits, self behavioral boundaries, etc. My neighbor let me borrow her intro kit to Weight Watchers and I found it pretty simple and interesting... because the concept is that you can eat whatever you want, as far as type of food. However, you learned what a normal portion size really IS... and didn't eat more than that. You retrained yourself to learn when you are truly full - and to not eat past that point. There are 2 concepts: either using the points system - only eating a certain number of points a day or the Core Plan - which doesn't count points, but does require eating from all the basic food groups a number of servings a day. Both plans allow 35 points a week for eating out, dessert, alcohol, etc... "extra" points to spend for those special treats or unexpected necessity.

I thought that the basic ideas were easy enough to implement on my own - AND to apply to other things...

Another word I use to substitute for discipline is "practice"... as in tai chi is a discipline; it's something I practice; and I "play" tai chi when I'm performing the form. I've applied this idea of practice to quitting smoking. I practiced not smoking in my car from home to tai chi class. Then I practiced from home to work; work to home. I practiced not smoking at lunch. And I taught myself that I wouldn't meltdown - that those activities weren't triggers for smoking.

What I think about how I do these things... how I change these habits/routines... whether I tell myself it's practice today, to not smoke at work... instead of disciplining myself to not smoke... makes a huge, huge difference. Failure isn't an issue when you're practicing - because you're learning. It's a part of the learning process - and that lowers the RISK involved, too. Takes away some anxiety, some fear about actually doing it: not smoking.

[debkor]

Hi Axa,

I still smoke and I put on weight because it's not that easy to keep it off anymore with me getting older... So I go up and down and eat good and then bad...and I'm not going to be so hard on myself... It is a struggle....and the cig's.. well pure addiction now.. I am a cig addict... not that easy to stop... and I know I cannot do it with just pure will power now...

I know people who have really kicked the habit with the Meds Chantix.  My D's b/f did it... has not smoked two weeks after he started them..

I know when my B/P had went up I started to cook everything on the George Foreman Grill...and eat everything low fat.. but not diet...still ate the same things.   To my surprise when I went back for a check up I lost 15lbs and wasn't trying too.

I just changed the way I cooked and everything low fat...

Love
Deb

[sKePTiKal]

Hi Axa...

just bumping this up, in case you still want to talk about routines... I'm seeing more & more about them lately.

[axa]

Hi all,

Thank you so much for your posts.

Well, I have not smoked for 5 days and feel horrible physically.  I think it is my lungs trying to recover but feel I want to be free of my addiction.  I am using patches and they are helping.

Eating - not so good I am afraid.



Will try to be more aware of the low fat but there is something more than the weight gain, its my relationship with food which is not healthy.

 Phoenix, I will address your questions in an effort to clarify things from myself, ok?
What do you mean about struggling with routine?


I hate the thought of doing the same thing day after day.  I have very little routine in my life.  I study when I want to, eat when I feel like it, etc  I don't think there is anything I do to a routine except brush my teeth.  I achieve a lot but in a disorganised way.  I am wondering if this is a reaction to having felt controlled for so much of my life and not having a sense of freedom.   The irony is that it is kicking me in the butt and I see the merits of having routine - confusing routine with control.  I love the spontaneous and am quite terrified of boredom, which I associate with routine.  Writing this I am becoming aware of how young this thinking is.  The adult in me realises that routine enhances my life rather than takes from it but I have such difficult maturing around this concept.

I guess by discipline I mean self care!!!!!!!!!! now that I didnt know either.  Self care = boring in my book, always has.  It is so key to my development and growth and I kick against it all the time.  I want someone to do it for me, familiar? To me it is, it is like the dammed mantra that has been going around in my head since I was a child.  This is emerging as a lack of maturity, me thinks.

Thanks for the Weight Watchers topic.........I have joined so many WW clubs at this stage that I think I could write the books.  Following either plan takes discipline and routine - buying the right kind of food, having healthy foods available to snack on etc.  This is the core of my struggle.  I took care of my lovely daughter for years with such discipline around her therapy and medication and it was an honour but doing simple tasks like shopping regularily for myself seem like such a waste of time.  I hate doing it.  I hate taking care of myself and that is the truth.

I like what you say about practise.  In many ways I am aware of so much but as soon as I come into contact with food it is as if a switch is flicked in my brain and I zone out, become numb, dissassociated or something like that.   I always eat a healthy breakfast so I will practise eating a healthy lunch and try it that way.  Funny, what has just struck me is that discipline, routine seem like forever concepts whereas practice feels like it lacks the authority and negativity of the other, also it does not feel like a forever concept, whew!

Another observation, my levels of awareness drop dramatically when I do not meditate - another lesson in self care here.

Would love to keep this thread open and have input

Beth,

I would be pleased if you would write more about addictions because I feel that my food issues, N issues are connected with an addiction.  Great to hear from you x

axa

[Ami]

Dear Axa
 I can relate to how difficult self care is. In fact, I am JUST realizing(in the heart) that I have a self which is worth caring for.
 The N parents robbed us of so many essential things. Then, we go in to life missing critical pieces and our lives don't work.
  I have used food to meet so many other needs, too,particularly love.
  I am sensing myself in a new way,now.
  Inside me IS someone. I matter from the inside out,not the outside in, solely.
  I did not realize how focused I was on the outside until I started feeling a little more focused on the inside.
  Thanks for the topic. It is really important.      Ami
 
 

[Certain Hope]

(((((((Axa)))))))  Never in my life have I felt so physically awful as when I first quit smoking;
but it's been 11 months now - and it's absolutely wonderful to be free!

You can do it and your body will thank you so much... it's simply amazing how many aspects of life are impacted by not smoking. Just takes time for all those toxic effects to be purged. Before it got better, everything from my sinuses to my toenails pitched a violent rebellion...  so hang in there.

About eating - I think it's so helpful to grow a bit of healthy vanity and then to wear that as a corsage. It's not the sort of vanity which flaunts itself as superior...
more of a decorative accessory, which complements your total "look".
For many years, I did not eat. In the bad old days, I'd "drink my dinners" and go without the rest of the day.
Took time and conscious effort to develop some healthy appetites, after all that.

Well, over the past 8 months or so, I discovered a healthy appetite...
and also discovered that I can no longer eat whatever I please, without effects.  duh.
Blood pressure meds I started last September began to lower my pressure so much that I think my metabolism was near standstill...
and I gained 20 pounds, 15 of which I am working now on shedding.
Besides counting calories (a first!!) and applying some generous self-discipline, I read alot about changing up daily calorie consumptions so that the metabolism doesn't recognize patterns, etc... and began a regular exercise program. Tell you what... just the exercise alone has made a huge difference already, because of the toning effects. If you can make yourself do it, just the first few times, your body will come to crave the blessings of it and soon it'll be a pleasure.
One possible way to begin is through the fitness channel on tv. I like Gilad 
Even ordered his dvd set. Put in the promo code "SUMMER" and you get a discount.
Gotta start somewhere!

Anyhow, I hope this helps. I know what it's like to not care... and to feel stuck.
But you have shown every determination and willingness to forge ahead...
and I know that you can score a knockout on this challenge, as well.

Love,
Carolyn

[lighter]

Hi Axa:

I know that I've had physical workout routines for years that I stuck with, no problem.

In between, I struggled and failed. 

For me, it comes down to setting up routines and boudaries I at least like, then honoring both.

When we make a habit of compromising good habits and boundaries.... we're back in the soup.

Lighter

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

Lighter - thanks for mentioning boundaries! That's something new I've just discovered: I NEED boundaries within myself... some things simply have to be off limits... for me to truly care for myself. I never learned this in my FOO. I just thought everyone did whatever they felt like - ALL the time - and people who had "rules" about food & stuff like that were "weird"...

But only this week - with the work on humiliation and the last steps of preparing to let go smoking (and ALL that it symbolizes, too) have I discovered that I need these inner boundaries; conscious choices and decisions about how I care for myself - as if I were my own loving, wise, gentle & compassionate mother... you know: the one I didn't have.

Axa: Well, I'm a few days behind you on quitting smoking. Just started this morning.... so at the moment, I am only hours into this quit. I successfully made it past a routine time-trigger for smoking - 10 am - because I had to play helpdesk (they're not here) and physically go help someone with their email.

I tend to try to substitute food or drinking (used to; not anymore) for smoking - because of my emotional triggers... so I've gotten a very good set of healthy things around to use as "replacements" or substitutions - and mounds bars for rewards!  I have been separating the smoking from the emotions for a few days now - same as separating from things like coffee... or driving... I've been practicing these quite a while now.

For me, I have routines that are negative... ones that need to go away. Like coming home from work, withdrawing behind a newspaper and stuffing my face from a bag o' chips. I also have good routines - like when I get to work: a certain process of checking for any crises that need to be dealt with immediately - checking in here to see how things are going; what's new - and then settling down to work. Both of these kinds of routines are simply habitual ways of doing things, you know?

They both have value - but the paper & chips routine is a limited value; limited return - for the little bit of "comfort" I derive from this, I'm adding pounds, alienating my husband by "shutting down"... and then I don't much care what we have for dinner, either. The cost of this routine is too expensive for the bit of comfort I'm getting. So... I set a boundary: one bag of chips a week - NEVER take the bag into the living room - only a serving... and not every night. Getting closer to figuring out what I REALLY need when I get home... the thing that I'm trying to placate with junk food...

I think you answered the question about routines pretty clearly, Axa. You associate that with control... humdrum... imposed ways of doing things. Makes sense to me. For me, routines were a way to control the chaos around me... to manage the multiple tasks, responsibilities and roles I had in my FOO. Some of habits, though, are based on the idea that people simply do whatever they want based on how they feel - even if it's abusive or self-abusive... that's the way it was in my family. I feel like crap... so I'm not eating, except this bag o' chips...

Well, I'm starting to babble - it's too much oxygen getting to my brain. Will have to come back after this phase passes... I'm quitting cold turkey but I do have some homeopathic helpers... and worst case scenario, I still have Commit lozenges from 3-4 years ago - the quit right before I found out about Twiggy. Maybe it's time to go walk again.

[axa]

I am so grateful for this thread it is helping me so much to focus on my issues of food and cigarettes.  I feel sure if I was not coming on here I would be back in denial but I feel that I have entered a conversation with you guys and I carry this with me when I am off line.

I will address your posts later but first I would like to talk about yesterday.

I ate a healthy breakfast and worked until lunch time - good, at lunch I practiced eating healthly so I did make some good food and a NORMAL portion.  I usually eat alone, and in front of the TV, did not turn on the TV.  This is what I learned, firstly, I eat like someone who is starving.  I pile the food into my mouth until the plate is empty.  I have no sense of savouring the food other than the first bit, it really is about getting it in there as quickly as possible.  Secondly, I think I just want to feel full.  I slowed down my eating, took a bite waited until I was finished before I had the next bite and it nearly drove me crazy.  It was as if I had a voice in my head screaming, get it into you quick!  I wanted the end feeling - no delayed gratification for me as XN used to point out. 

In the afternoon I felt like I was really hungy, went and made myself a healthy snack, dinner I just piled it in and late evening I stuffed myself with biscuits.  I had lost my practice by dinner time.   Before I had the biscuits I tried to figure out what I wanted, I felt full since dinner but I just wanted something "nice" I felt very like a child, like a treat.  So this is one day in the life of Axa's eating.  It feels sad writing this, I want to change this pattern and feel good again.  After XN I lost so much weight and looked really good and it seems the intensity of that pain was the only thing that could fill me other than food.  I feel like a slave to it, truly. 

Today I will try and do my practice again, I wonder if I made my eating a focused task, which I am good at doing would that help.


Lighter, thanks for your words, I agree with Phoenix I also need boundries within myself.  If seems as if the plus side of being an adult is that I can do everything - well legal that is- but that is not so if I want to care for myself.   By the way I am doing fine without the smoke.  I know I want to smoke when I feel angry and I have not felt angy for a while so that is working>

Phoenix I am conscious of not substituting food for smoke, and don't think there is a connection there but interesting to hear your process.  I can so identify with that negative shutting off routine.  I do it.  I use the TV.  In fact these days I am either sitting at my lap top writing or watching tv.  The only other thing I do is walk for about three quarters of an hour four/five days a week.  I have no routine at the moment and other than meeting with my house mates I see nobody.  That is changing today.

I think I associated routines with being controlled rather than a system of organisation which benefits me.  Its like I want to be this free child who can do what ever they want without consequences, Ah moment!  as a child there were always consequences (punishment) even without doing the bad thing, all I needed to do was to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!

I will come back to this as I am GOING OUT with friends later and address what others have said

thank you allllllllll so0000000000000000000000000000000 much

axa

[lighter]

I want to add that drinking a big glass of water before mealtime, as a habit, is an option.

We may not digest as efficiently.... but we're better hydrated and have a fuller feeling before we sit down to table.

Always always always..... to keep a large glass with water at hand is a good habit, IMO.

I also like to start out with protien in the am, it helps curb appetite throughout the day. 

One eggwhite has 17 calories.

A whole egg and one egg white is under 100 calories and one of the best sources of protien there is so.... great start to the day.

We keep boiled eggs in the house and snack on fresh fruit and egg whites after dinner.  I find it's enjoyable and filling for all of us.

I also enjoy cold clean celery, kept in water, with a bit of blue cheese dressing and tobasco for a snack..... a bag of cleaned spinach is easy to grab and dip as well.... lots of iron, so good for us.

If we have acceptable choices on hand, fresh and easy..... it's easier to choose them and get into new habits.

Water water water..... vitamins in the morning get us filling a cup and gulping down the first glass.... reminding us we need to keep it up. 

Lighter

ps.... great thread axa