Author Topic: Your Help Appreciated  (Read 8660 times)

Certain Hope

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Your Help Appreciated
« on: July 31, 2008, 08:59:59 PM »
Hi,

Been pretty busy and unable to participate here lately, but there's something on which I'd appreciate your comments and views, if you would, please...

My mother is 81 and ailing, now. She and I have not communicated much for the past few years...
although (till recently) she'd continued to enclose a brief note with my dad's weekly mailings, I've not reciprocated.
And now, for the past several weeks, dad has reported that "mother isn't up to writing this week".
He's made several references to her "problem", but I didn't write or call to learn more.

Well, today's mailing contained a note from her, in a sealed envelope (within the larger envelope), addressed to me.
She sent me a copy of her ct scan report and a long list of her "diagnoses"...
none of which appear to be extremely critical (although they sure look impressive on this form she sent).
argh

Well, she's been catheterized (at home) for the past couple weeks, because of an inability to urinate.
One of her problems is genital prolapse.
Also a cyst on the kidney.

The thing is...
she sent me this note, along with a copy of the scan, with the remark:
"I am enclosing (this) which may be of some help to you in the future years concerning any problems you might have. Hope to hear from you soon."

What is that?!??

umm... this is terrible, I'm afraid, but I feel like she's cursing me, in some weird way... and feeling that way makes me ashamed of myself... and I want to shake that feeling so that I can only have compassion for her...  and I want to write back and let her know the results of the research I've done on the info she provided (which shows that these are all common problems)... 
and another part of me feels so very sorry for her that she apparently couldn't just tell me outright, weeks ago, what was going on (but then I was supposed to call and find out, no doubt)...
so there's the guilt...
and there are just too many feelings swirling around to sort at the moment,
so I'd sure appreciate your input.

Thanks.

Carolyn

Izzy_*now*

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 09:39:07 PM »
hi Carolyn,

A note from my little corner is that, as an old mother, I have told my daughter about my mother's and my physical history, just for the record, not as a curse, but as family history. I found that so many times I've had to answer questions about "such and such an ailment ever in your family?" and sometimes she has asked about more ordinary things such as end of menopause etc. Anything about my disability is extraneous to this but my mother's was spina bifida (lack of folic acid in expectant mother?) and scoliosis.

As for your mother, the prolapse might appear to be a very uncommon thing that she might think she has passed along the line medically. I would send her a note of thanks as though you didn't know--don't burst her balloon-- and it could be a word of 'sympathy', whatever, from you as well. (depending on what you might want to say....)

Not everyone is aware of catheterization.....other than when in hospital for an operation and not able to get up to pee. It is quite unpleasant, as far as I am concerned, and she might think so too, and not wish it upon you, so for you to beware and to study up on how to avoid it.

That's how I read it, but is your mother N?

Love
Izzy

"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

Hopalong

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 10:01:48 PM »
Dear, dear Carolyn..

I think the note and scan from your mother are two things:

1) a guilt trip
2) a piece of your family medical history to file and be aware of

I found with NMom that both her love and her raging Nism could coexist in the same gesture.

Drove me BATS so I do understand.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Certain Hope

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 10:14:39 PM »
((((((Izzy)))))) thank you so much. If you were to tell me anything under the sun, I wouldn't doubt that you were only doing it for the purpose of sharing... with the very best intent.

And I would like very much to think that the line of thought which you've presented is indeed the place my mother's coming from when she wrote that to me.
Actually, it may be true that she's unaware of stuff like prolapses and catheterization...
she's been relatively healthy all of her life and has no friends...
and would never share personal stuff like that with them if she had them...
that'd be beneath her dignity, I think...
at least that's how I read her.

But putting all of that aside - and I think that's probably what I'm supposed to do, since it's a whole lot of presumption on my part - I may very well do what you said here, Iz:

I would send her a note of thanks as though you didn't know--don't burst her balloon-- and it could be a word of 'sympathy', whatever, from you as well. (depending on what you might want to say....)

That helped alot... because I have become quite a balloon-burster, since coming into my voice...
and - at this stage - what's the point?
Maybe it's time for me to just go with the flow on alot more matters... at least on an individual basis...
and in this case, it wouldn't be phoni-ness... only kindness.
maybe.

She's very N'ish, Izzy. I think that this is the very first time in her life when she has not exerted absolute power and control. It must be very difficult for her.
But I don't deceive myself into thinking it's made her any more gentle and meek.
She's not a very nice person.
And I have a lot of past abandonments and neglects to forgive and forget.
Maybe that's the whole point, after all.

Thanks again, Iz.

Love,
Carolyn

P.S.  (((((((Hops))))))) thanks. I just saw your post and I know you understand. I don't feel any love in her letter...
not from her to me...
but I do feel my love for her, and that's the rub.

Certain Hope

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 10:38:41 PM »
Hops, Izzy,

Some more...

I also suspect that she didn't write on her own accord, you know? I mean... I think that my dad got tired of saying, week after week, that she wasn't up to writing and so he got after her to drop a few lines to me. So she did her duty, with the added bonus of laying on a guilt trip. That's what I feel from her note - it was a matter of duty, nothing even resembling a genuine concern for my awareness of our family medical history.

I feel that she can't write to me from her heart, because that would be admitting to weakness...
so she did it this way, sending a formal copy of her results, under the guise of my needing the info....

when all I'd like to hear from her is that she is scared about all this and feeling fragile...
instead of my having to read between lines and manufacture feelings for her, to which I might be able to respond in a heartfelt manner of my own.

Well, I am not going to try to analyze how my response might best suit her patterns of denial and stoicism. She can't monitor and control my emotional reactions... that's my job.

And you know what?
Every week, dad sends their Sunday church bulletin, complete with the page of congregational prayer requests.
Her name is not there.
She is so disconnected from humanity that she won't even allow those people who are supposed to be her church family to know that she is in need.

What I see that makes me ashamed is that as much as I can feel for her, one of my top feelings is how much I especially don't want to wind up like that... like she taught me to be... like I have been in the past... isolated and apart and alien.
And I remember that, some years ago, when I thought that I really was dying, I didn't want her near. And she didn't offer to come. All I wanted was my own family... which included, at the time, npd-ex, who could just as well be her son as any woman's...
oh boy.

So now I must choose to acknowledge my feelings, as above, and yet only act on the ones which lead to me showing her kindness and compassion, despite all the negative, hurtful stuff, without storing any of that up... 
because I think that's what mature, emotionally responsible adults are to do.
I can do this.

Thanks again, ladies.

Love,
Carolyn

axa

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2008, 02:23:02 AM »
Hi CArolyn,

Have not been on line lately just popped in this morning.  My advice, TRUST YOUR GUT...........I guess my experiene of Ns has made me very cautious but I believe there is always an ulterior motive, my 2 cents.

xxx

axa

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 08:31:45 AM »
Sounds like my mom-she had breast cancer and did not even accept help from church.  Why that might be admitting she is not perfect.  When people did find out about it it was.oh it is nothing!
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Certain Hope

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2008, 09:11:13 AM »
Axa, thanks... it is good to read you! 

Yes, ulterior motives always.... that is a foundational part of the modus operandi.

And yes, I will trust my gut, because I know that I do not feel this way about all people... or even toward many people. I mean, it's not an automatic response of mine... and in this case, I do believe it's justified.

Axa, having slept on this, I'm thinking that I can genuinely extend concern and compassion to her.... as long as I do not jump back onto the hook of expecting her to follow suit.  No, I don't expect her to ever "be there" for me in the way that I need; but because I can now depend on myself (to show up for my self), I can also trust myself to remain detached from the consequences of future interactions. Sounds good in theory, anyhow. Seems that the abiity to be honest with myself about my own expectations is one fruit of the lengthy no contact period with her... and that is a blessing. Expecting nothing in return actually makes it easier to release the old bitternesses and step forward. Hugs to you!


Hi Kelly,

Did she try to keep her cancer a secret?  All for the sake of keeping up appearances. That is so very sad and lonely!

People must realize that something is up, since my dad's been attending church alone for so many weeks.
It is just so sad to me to recognize that she must really not believe in the power of prayer, or else she'd be eager to have her church family lift her up...
but then, she seems to think that you get blessed with good things by being good and trying really hard...
so maybe, at some level, she thinks this illness is a form of punishment. I don't know.

Kelly, she would not even go on a med. years ago, to address her cholesterol issues. Instead, she did this radical diet change, cutting out just about everything but veggies and certain forms of chicken. So then, the couple times they've been here to visit since, for instance...  there was this huge deal about what she couldn't eat.
She doesn't mind a bit having her family revolve around her and cater to her. It's lilke - that is supposed to be our job; but I wouldn't act all impressed with her efforts to do this the ultra hard way (and consequently make everyone around her miserable). I just said that I thought it was dumb not to take the pill and that this crazy diet she'd imposed on herself could not possibly be good, because it was so out of balance. Guess that was some more of my balloon busting... and it sure didn't go over well.
Finally, I just stopped cooking for them altogether and let them figure out that when they got hungry, a restaurant was their best option.
eek... I already had 3 kids and a husband to deal with... and she'd sucked up enough of my life force over the years.
And now my dad is talking about them getting down here to see us before the snow flies...
and although I cannot imagine her being willing to make the trip after all this, she has surprised me before.

All of that to say...
any confidence or assurance I feel in responding to her in writing...
must be able to be transferred to a personal appearance...
and when she's right smack in your face, it is not so easy. She has this way of draining the room of all life and light... just a very powerful force of darkness, even still.

Carolyn


sKePTiKal

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2008, 09:58:15 AM »
"I am enclosing (this) which may be of some help to you in the future years concerning any problems you might have. Hope to hear from you soon."

Carolyn - my two cents about this is that she's simply assuming that because she has these issues, of course you may as welll - projective identification, don't you think?

I have to run; will be back - haven't even read all the wonderful advice you've probably already gotton... just saw this line and connected to it.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2008, 10:12:38 AM »
Ahhhh, Carolyn:

One could drive herself crazy trying to figure all that out. 

You should go ahead and feel compassion, give her a return note expressing just that and not worry with assigning motives, IMO.

Tail chasing endeavor trying to figure out what other people are thinkin. 

SOOOPH, remember?

I learned that from you, I think.

Lighter



LilyCat

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2008, 10:53:03 AM »
Hi Carolyn,

What a dilemma. Dealing with the elderly is always so fraught with abundant issues and challenges -- do we extend compassion to people who have so deeply wounded us? What is the right thing to do? If we do show compassion, how do we do so while protecting ourselves? Plus, the more tangible issues such as declining mental faculties, physical frailties, and more. It is not an easy or clear-cut time.

You have gotten great suggestions from Izzy and Hops; and you are clearly finding your own appropriate boundaries. I think especially with your last post, you are well down the pathway to deciding how to handle it. I can find info about the prolapse for you if you wish; I remember seeing a picture of it once in one of our pubs, and feeling horrified. I had no idea such things could happen to us!!

Giving up expectations of getting anything from my parents was a huge step forward in my life. It really freed me from a lot of their torture and conflict.

I think I've said that my dad and I did not have a great relationship until the last 10 years of his life. It had begun to get better in the previous years, but when my mother died he changed radically. I enjoyed those 10 years very much, got things from him I'd never received, and had many good and meaningful times with him. He could be a real challenge, in that he was needy and highly structured as ever, and elderly -- but he could also be a great joy and companion. I've always treasured the way our relationship changed and grew.

And, I fully believed I'd forgiven him, completely. But lately, this month or so, I've realized that it's more of a generous truce than real forgiveness. With him out of the picture (he died last October) I feel some old anger and resentment rising up again. It feels like anything but forgiveness.

During his last two months or so I was with him nearly constantly; he contracted a urinary tract infection (which is something that you should be on the look-out for in your mom), which is very serious in the elderly, and often can cause death. It certainly contributed to my father's.

He had always been a bright, lucid, sharp man, until he started his decline. When he was in the hospital with the UTI, he started a real mental decline, something called "sundowning." Senior citizens can be relatively normal in the morning and afternoon, but in the late afternoon they start to get the crazies -- real senility. It's the oddest phenomenon.

Thus, I went through this every day with my dad. Just when he seemed to be getting mentally alert and feeling better, the sundowning took over. When I had to put him in a nursing home for post-hospital care -- I had to, he needed the care -- he turned on me, bigtime. He got totally delirious and full of rage, accused me of trying to steal his money and plotting against him; told me things like if I looked deep down into my soul, I'd see that I was wicked and what I was doing was wrong. We'd had quite a tiff in the hospital before that; I forget what it was about, but I remember that I took no crap from him and let him have it in a very honest way. I think it scared the poor people (nurse) to death, or made her very uncomfortable. She may have thought I was an ogre, but my experience had been that the man needed someone to stand up to him; he'd been awful to the speech therapist and I wasn't going to let him off the hook. (I didn't fully realize how bad off he was.)

Well, anyway, my point is that just when you think it would be all warm and cozy and the guy would be giving me some end-of-life caring or advice or something -- boom, he turned on me. Really, really nasty. He said some things that were at least as hurtful as anything he'd ever said, and maybe more. (I swear, he put a curse on me and the pastor.)

Eventually my sister and I took him back to his house, in which he was born, to give him hospice.

I'm so glad we did. With all his past legacy there in the room, and his recent nasty behavior and words, still, I saw this fragile, frightened man. There were times, as he moved toward dying, that he had looks of absolute terror on his face; and others of great anxiety. I still think it was something about meeting his maker, and maybe reviewing his life and the things that he had done. (He was a very good man in the world, but not to me and our home.)

I hoped, because I had always hoped, my life long, that this would be the moment when he would really reach out and say something wise or profound to me -- or even say one small thing, one word of departing love or advice. What I most hoped for was that he would say some word of "I'm sorry" -- for he never apologized for anything in his life, at least to me.

But he didn't. He was completely absorbed in his own process, as I guess the dying must do. He finally seemed to wait for the end of a Yankees game my sister was watching on TV (it went extra innings) and then, although she had checked him not 30 seconds before, he died when she was out of the room.

Despite everything my dad had done to me in my life, and the nastiness of his last weeks, I am so glad we gave him hospice. It is a real, genuine privilege to usher someone out of this life and into the next. Regardless of what your earthly relationship has been, it is deeply meaningful when it is with someone who has been your immediate family member.

I will never forget the compassion I felt for him in the nursing home, even when he was raging against me; or the more subtle, but deeper compassion as he lay on his deathbed. Those feelings were as much a gift to me as they were to him.

The past few weeks, too, I have been going through a particular deep and challenging journey of faith, concerning my pastor and even my church. I am sure there is more to come, but, ironically enough, it is the N pastor himself who is helping me through this dark time. He'd given a sermon on Easter two years ago, which I didn't listen to at the time (I was ignoring him), but which I have on CD. It is without a doubt the most brilliant sermon and piece of theology I have ever heard. He talks about how God calls to us through the darkness of our lives, the confusion of our minds, to find us; how we can never know the meaning of the Resurrection until we have spent significant time in the darkness; how that is the only place that we can ever really meet the risen Christ. After the Resurrection, and after we have met the Risen Christ, life is never the same again. We only know that there is no "normal" anymore; now, we can't even count on the darkness any more.

It is so hard to explain, but he is so right. I loved that sermon when I first heard it on CD; and I listened to it so much on my commute that I can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard it. It always spoke to me; I thought I knew what darkness was. I shared this with the N, how much I loved the sermon and how much it meant to me. (I'm sure THAT was great supply!!!!)

Until this pastor experience, until he betrayed me and his office, I didn't know what darkness is. So many people on message boards (not this one) have told me this man is evil, possessed, of the devil. I cannot accept that. So, I've spent a great deal of time this week learning what my denomination thinks of those.

I learned so much. I found a definition of evil as the lack of creation and the lack of goodness, and that makes sense to me. Ns were never "created" in the way they should have been. So, with that definition perhaps I can accept that he is evil.

I learned that the difficult answers I sought were right there in the catechism of my church. Well thought out, and satisfying. Through that and my Bible study, I learned that God always brings good out of evil for those who love God. I learned that this man certainly has sinned, seriously and constantly; but so have I, just in different ways. Sins of not appreciating all the good that is around me that God created; and others. I found many Biblical references that would allow me to accuse the pastor of being wicked and take comfort that God would judge him and bestow retribution. II could take great satisfaction in that if I wished.

But, except for the first several days, I have never wished retribution on him. I just haven't. And by the grace of God, literally, I forgave him, easily and quickly and without trying, when I thought I never could.

I read again the call of Christ to his disciples, and of the truth he brought to us. I read of the need for compassion. Last night I read Matthew, and the Sermon on the Mount and the beatitudes. The very first thing Christ said was "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the kingdom of God." And the advice that if a man forces you to walk a mile (Christ is specifically talking about "bad" men), walk two. If he demands your cloak, give him your shirt as well.

For all their meanness and power moves and control, I cannot think of anyone more meek than a person who genuinely suffers from NPD; that lack of self underneath, that vast emptiness and darkness and disconnection from God. If anyone asks us to walk a mile with them, it is they, in their darkness and confusion and emptiness. They beg us to take them upon ourselves.

I have been so concerned about his (pastor's) soul; I know his fragility and, with my Bible study, know even more his sin (SO much more than against me); I read in our catechism, essentially, that no matter how depraved we become, if we are true believers there is always hope. And thus I pray for him.

...The very one (pastor) who has so hurt and betrayed me is the one who has also pointed me toward the path of healing; this dark experience is itself a faith journey of large and significant  proportions; one that I have been asking God for, for many, many years. It is here; and it is the darkness that is bringing me into new light. A Hebrew definition for Satan is "adversary"; so perhaps the pastor is under the influence; he has been an adversary, but his opposition has forced me to study and to learn and it has brought me closer to God and Christ.

I'm not really sure what the point of my sharing this with you is, except perhaps to say that life and relationships, particularly familial relationships, are intricate and complex. The path is not always clear nor is it always easy. What God gives us, if we ask, is the power to endure the things and experiences that perplex us but the answers for which we cannot know. My very favorite Bible passage is "Trust in the Lord, and lean not unto your own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." (Proverbs 3:5-6)

I think the best I can say is, trust both your gut and your heart. You already have all the answers you need, whatever they are; they are living and breathing inside you. And ask the Lord, and the Lord will guide you.

xoxo,

Lily

Certain Hope

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2008, 11:17:53 AM »
Amber, I very much appreciate your two cents!

At the root, could it really be just as simple a matter as projective identification?
Yes, I do think so.

An emotionally mature person might share such info with a sincere interest in the benefit of others, but that has never been the case with my mother - - - who has never, not once, ever indicated any ability to relate to my circumstances, issues, difficulties, struggles, pains, and sorrows. Why? Because good, special folks like her don't have my kind of circumstances, issues, etc.  I understand her mentality and can reject that without rejecting her as a person.

What I needed to grasp was my own tumultuous reaction to her words.
It was like she pushed an old panic button...
and you've helped me to see which one.

It was the adolescent  "NOOOOOOoooooooooooooo  I am not you. I am a unique individual" button.
Simple as that.

Thank you!!!!


Lighter, you're absolutely right.  I'd been doing pretty well SOOPHING with others, but her note out of the blue zipped me into another mode... a very ancient, primitive reaction occurred... but just spilling it out here and receiving some calm responses from y'all has helped so much.

Thanks!!

Lily,  Thank you for sharing of your experience with your Dad. I'll have to re-read what you've written and contemplate some more... but the basic points are floating through to me. Will just take me some time to absorb it all and make my own form of peace with realities.

I think re: NPD that weak is a fitting adjective... but not meek.
Meekness knows its need...
true N does not.
Just my opinion.

You have really highlited for me the underlying dilemma... of seeing my mother as weak - which is very difficult and painful for my inner little girl, and scary, and threatening.
My greatest fear as a very young child was that something would happen to her and I would disappear....   that I had no existence apart from her.
Knowing her current age and condition, and anticipating what will come... triggers those old terrors. I know that I have the tools to deal with it now...
but I think that I had to talk about it aloud here, so to speak, in order to recognize what was happening within me.
In a weird way, it is almost easier to see her as some sort of power-monger even still...
rather than to accept just how frail she has become.
The woman has become a legend in my mind...
and my own avoidance has allowed that legend to be sustained.  Enough of that.

Thanks so much.

Love and hugs,
Carolyn

sKePTiKal

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2008, 11:40:03 AM »
Carolyn - glad that helped!

I've got a touchy button too, with my mother and smoking - and so I've decided that NC is in my best interest until I've been off nicotine for a whole month.

I'm not real coherent today - Day 1 of the long-awaited Quit - and the brain is running faster than my fingers can type. I'm needing an outdoor time-out.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2008, 11:50:16 AM »
YVW: )

Certain Hope

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Re: Your Help Appreciated
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2008, 12:09:47 PM »
Oh ((((((((Amber)))))))))  you have all of my support and prayers, no matter what.

Never quit quitting.

Love,
Carolyn

P.S.  To busy hands and mind in a different way, if you have an opportunity, I recommend a couple silly pc games... like Bejeweled... or... Peggle!

Very best wishes to you!!