Trying to sort out 2 trivial experiences

[Gaining Strength]

I had two trivial experiences today that got under my skin and which I am trying to sort out.

Both happened late this afternoon.  In one I called a friend of my son's mother to invite her son to spend the night on Saturday.  I said we would bring him home in time to get to church.  I knew this might be a little difficult for her as she is a very anxious person.*  She hemmed and hawed and said yes and then no and then yes.  So I had an idea and suggested that he come Sunday night.  She said yes.  And then she asked about when my son's school started.  I said Wed. but that he was going to a camp and would miss the first few days.  "Won't they be upset about that?"  I answered that it was my choice for Richard to go to this camp.  When she learned that we would be driving to the camp on Monday afternoon she then said, "Well then Sunday won't be a good night for Chip to spend the night.  You will be up all night and that would not be safe for you to drive  the next day after you haven't slept enough."  I responded that Sunday would be a good night for us.  "No.  You should not do it on Sunday.  You won't get enough sleep.  That won't be a good night.  Maybe he can come some other night but not on Sunday when you are driving the next day."  I said, "Really - Sunday would be a good night for us.  We would love to have him come Sunday.  If it works for you we will pick him up at 4."  Finally she relented. 

The thing that is so bizarre is that she is trying to tell me when it would work for me!  That is so bizarre.  First of all - I have no intention of the boys staying up all night and second I won't be staying up all night.  Third - that has absolutely nothing to do with driving the next afternoon.  This is the kind of conversation we have.  I gave up some time ago thinking we could be friends though in the early years I thought it might be possible.  Last week we had a similar conversation.  I called to ask if she could bring my con home from football to my mother's house (near her house) b/c I had been invited out to dinner.  (our sons were on the same team.)  She said yes and asked if there might be so kind of romance, I said, "No." And she said, "Why not? How do you know?"  So I said that it was just an invitation to go to a dinner party and that this person was recently divorced and needed a  dinner partner but there was no romantic interest.  She kept pushing, so finally I said that I thought he was gay.  She went ballistic about why do guys who are gay do that and she knew someone who was getting divorced after 13 years and she was sure the husband was gay and he had just wasted her life all those years and she didn't understand why I would allow someone to do that to me and blah, bla blah, bla blah.  When she finished her rant I asked her again if she would be willing to take my son to my mother's and she said yes but I could hear real anger in her voice.  Whatever her deal was she had tranferred all her animosity to me.  It was a very bizarre experience.

What do you make of these two experiences?  What do you think her deal is?  Why do you think she feels righteous about deciding what I can and cannot do in terms of inviting a child to spend the night or in accepting an invitation to dinner?  It is so bizarre to me.

RE the boys - Iknow she and her husband have never given their son a bedtime and still let him sleep in their bed even though he is 8 in Sept.  So there seems to be a clear boundary problem.  But at our house - there is a bed time and they won't be staying up all night.  I didn't bother mentioning that to her.

Here is the other incident:  I signed my son up in the Big Brother/Big Sister program in May.  He was assigned a young man in his early 20s.  This young man is not good about following through.  He is very difficult to get on the phone.  He did not see my son or call him the entire month of July.  Last week he said he would get together with my son yesterday but when yesterday came he changed it to today.  He said he would come at 1:30.  I began calling at 1 and he finally texted after 1:30 that he would call when he was on his way.  He called at 2.  Yesterday I told him that my son had karate this afternoon at 4 and he said that he would take him.  I wrote out specific directions (already had an experience that Mark has a poor sense of direction.) and showed him a map.  I called at 3:30 to be sure that he was on the way.  He called me at 4:20 to say they had just gotten there (late) and that I needed to pick my son up because he had to run.  I said, "I will be there but you should have let me know sooner.  I am 30 minutes away and will have to leave this minute to pick him up on time."  He apologized.

I began emailing the BB/BS organization a couple of weeks ago with my complaints and today called in my complaints.  I am very frustrated with his placement.  The BB/BS staff tells me to discuss it with Mark.  I ask the organization to outline with him what is expected from a Big Brother. 

My frustration is 3 fold: 1) that I am in the position of "policing" the Big Brother; 2) that Mark is irresponsible and leaves me hanging time after time and 3) BB/BS puts me in the position of being the "heavy" which means that my son sees me as the one getting in the way of his relationship with Mark rather than Mark being irresponsible.  If BB/BS stepped in and held Mark responsible it would shift the role away from me so that my son does not see ME as the bad guy in this problem.

This Big Brother thing is triggering me but I cannot get to the bottom of it.

[Izzy_*now*]

hi SS
Well the first one is a mess of projection (if those situation be reversed?) or mind reading as to what you are thinking and her thinking it is too much trouble. Perhaps SHE would be the bad driver on the Monday?

I would be very wary about her. Some children can be good friends even if ther parents aren't, yet contact will still be necessary. See if you can figure out ALL her excuses before you call and have an answer (a good one ) for every one. Then again, as a last option, the two of you could spend some time together and learn to trust one another, as trust is missing?

You hit a nerve with the 'gay guy'. That might have been replaced with a teasing sing songy, "oh that's a secret , a real secret until ANYONE is ready to be told", then immediately back to the topic of the sons. With this one she definitely appears to be a control freak!!--well both of them I can see--yes Trying for power over and control

If her son has no boundaries she will not respect your son's boundaries.

The guy at BB has no boundaries and would benefit from following yours. Punctuality, Assertiveness, etc. BB ought to not be taking in untrustworthy people people (in some areas) as they might be untrustworthy in others.

Oh Heavens,! I am seeing that troubles are usually leading to bad or no boundaries and I never knew about boundaries until a few years ago!

Boy!
Thank god I am 69 and all over with that!

I hope some of this helps

Good Luck
Izzy

[teartracks]

Hi SS,


The big brother.  Because of his youth, I might have a sit down with him and give him the opportunity to explain why he takes the liberty to break committments.  I'd at least try to find out what his level of maturity is.  It sounds like he needs a big brother himself.  I'd make a decision from there about whether to continue with him or to ask to be assigned another person.

The uptight, controlling mother is another thing.  That she started out wishy washy would have probably made me say something like, Richard and I would like very much for ________to come for a stay over.  We can do it on so and so.  Would it help if I call back in a couple of hours after you've had time to look at your calendar and then try to work something out?  The endless hemming and hawing would annoy me, but I might put up with it for my son's sake.

The dinner date.   Somehow or other, she made you go on the defensive.   She seems rude and pushy.   Her behavior would have probably caught me off guard too.  I hope you didn't let it ruin your evening.

tt

[Ami]

Dear SS,
 With the lady, I have to laugh at the driving thing. I think things like that. I wouldn't do the date thing, though(lol). I think the lady has issues.I think that you will know this for the future and that may be all you can do.
 With the Big /Brothers. I understand your frustration and it seems  right that the BB should handle it,but they don't seem willing to. You are in a hard situation, for sure.
 I am sorry Mark is so unreliable. It must be very upsetting. My heart goes out to you. I know that you don't need this ,right now.
                 Love   Ami

[Gaining Strength]

Yes Izzy - there is definitely some sort of projection or something going on.  And both cases are boundry problems.  There are more stories with this mother.  In fact I posted about one in the late spring.  When I tell her something about my reaction to something she immediately counters with what HER reaction would be and why she would react differently.  This is the key to my frustration with her.  It's this bizarre need for things to conform to her sensibility.  Really strange.  When the boys were little I used to invite her child to come and do something with us and every time she would come too, which was odd.  But her reactions have gotten more and more bizarre.  I can't imagine how hard it would be to grow up with a mother who had to have everyone conform to her view point.


Teartracks -
I hope you didn't let it ruin your evening.  It definitely did not have an effect on my evening.  The party was fun.  It is just such a strange reaction - it felt very judgemental and rejecting.

Thanks Ami - It is VERY frustrating. I can't quite get at what the trigger is.  I'm clear on the trigger with the other mother.  Izzy pegged that one - it has everything to do with boundaries.  She clearly has weak ones and because of that is very reactive and owns none of what she does.  That much is clear.  But exactly what the trigger is with the Big Brother I'm not sure although it is VERY familiar feeling.  Hope I can connect it to the past.

[Juno]

SS--here is my idea of possible triggers for the BB situation.  Basically, your son is in the Big Brother program because he doesn't have a father.  It means A LOT to you and to your son.  And it is connected with abandonment.

This is just my take on it.

Love, Juno

[CB123]

Wow, SS!  i don't really have any ideas about the date experience.  She might have gotten in the middle of that conversation and couldnt find her way out...

My impression of the Sunday night sleepover conversation is that she didnt really want to have her son stay over.  That's why she kept changing her answer--she knew the "right" answer, but it wasnt what she wanted to do.  When she heard that you were driving on Monday, that was what she seized on as a reason to not do it. 

Good news is, it's about her.  She may be an anxious mother and it just brings up too much fear to let her son spend the night away from home.   The fact that he is still sleeping in the parents bed may be the tip-off.  People who are this controlling (like your other examples) are usually very fearful at heart--you can't change her.  Probably her controlling responses will bring out your free-spirit responses.  So you'll probably always grate on each other.  maybe you can limit contact and find some other friends for your son.

I suspect the Big Brother signed up for the program because he wanted to help kids--maybe because of his own growing up experiences?  Then he didnt have the emotional maturity to follow through.  Having our OWN kids is a kind of boot camp in that regard!  I actually had a husband who behaved the exact same way, and they were HIS kids!  Every personality oddity that a person has just gets magnified when they are dealing with their children....

It probably won't matter how many times you call the organization.  He probably has a lateness-problem, and it may never get fixed.  You might do better to develop a relationship with him--have him over for dinner, get to know him, learn about what kind of person he is, so you can decide if it is worth it to support the ongoing relationship with your son.  That may also give him a connection with you that will make him more conscientious.  Or it may make you decide that he has enough good qualities that you can overlook the time issue.  Or not.

Good luck!

CB 

 

[LilyCat]

SS,

First of all, your neighbor sounds like -- dare I say it? -- a nutcase. Boundary problems all over the place. In the first instance, I think she has problems letting go of her son. I don't think it had anything at all to do with you. Would probably need more info to confirm this, but you might want to consider that.

In the second instance -- well, that is just nuts. She obviously has issues of some kind. From both instances, it almost sounds like she has some problem with impulse control or something -- like she has no internal "editor". ?????

Re: the BB -- this is definitely not how it's supposed to work. This guy is not good BB material. He is causing more harm than good. I would document every little thing, then go back to the organization. If you don't get any satisfaction from them, escalate it. You're supposed to make a big commitment when you sign on as a BB/BS, to commit yourself to the child and to be responsible. This is nonsense.

...maybe it has something to do with "younger generations" (ugh! I hate to say that). They are much more flexible in their perception of time and other things than we (I) are. Also, many of them have been brought up with a rather strong focus on their needs. It might have something to do with that. But no matter -- it's not good for your son, so try talking to the guy and help him understand, and if that doesn't work, go to the org.

I have a friend who was a big sister to a girl who had a bad family background, and my friend was just wonderful to her. The mother was the nutty one who put her daughter into all sorts of predicaments and sabotaged her outings with my friend; but my friend is very responsible and strong and generous, and I recall vividly how she committed herself to that girl. That's the way it's supposed to be.

My thoughts.

[Gaining Strength]

Thank you three - Juno, CB and LilyCat.

Juno there is definitely abandoment issues here.  I am trying to trace them backwards and see what I was expecting and how it is not being met.

CB - this really helped me: People who are this controlling (like your other examples) are usually very fearful at heart--you can't change her. She is a very anxious person.  She is exactly what I think of when I think of Anxious - that it why I never saw myself as anxious.  She cannot make a commitment and then she locks on and won't waver.  It will help me if I see her as "fearful at heart". 

LilyCat - thank you - I recall vividly how she committed herself to that girl. That's the way it's supposed to be. That's what I had hoped for.  I cannot parent this other person.  I needed something dependable not another worry.  The big issues is that the staff needs to work with him not me.  My son will perceive me as taking away something he loves and that is simply wrong.

[sKePTiKal]

SS:

the mom would irritate me, thinking that she was better able to make a decision, arrangements for me and my child... that she knew better than myself - what it was I wanted.

The big brother seems to be a big disappointment - and he seems to make a habit of disappointing your son, because he can't be responsible for being on time. I don't think the kid really realizes that even being late could cause worry, anxiety and disappointment for your son - not to mention inconvenience and irritation for you. Oblivious. Doesn't seem to care - the appt's not important enough to him to be there when he says - and then he leaves you to fix his mess and make excuses, explain to your son... I can see why this would be a huge trigger for you.

Maybe talking to him about this will help; maybe he'll understand. If he doesn't - and doesn't shape up - he's not worth the hassle, to my mind.

[Gaining Strength]

These issues and others I am dealing with have to do with impotence - the utter inability to change anything. 

The other mother I am getting a handle on.  With both of these examples I feel annihilated - and in both instances I need support.  Not going to get it in either.  I wanted the organization to be what it promised to be - just the way LilyCat's friend felt - a sense of obligation and care.  Instead I have yet another situation that needs monitoring.  Can't do it.

This is really about the sense of annihilation - of meaning nothing to other people.  But that is where I have to shift.  It is the infant or toddler wounding that needs to mean something to my parents.  Not there, not going to happen.  That's why I can't do therapy with my mother.  It is enough that she admits she lies to me.  I can't do the whole thing because that will never happen.  I need to know that she was not there for me and did not love and adore me and that my father tried to destroy me psychologically.

I have to find the mirrors where I can and simply dismiss - at least psychologically - the places I don't get that.  I wanted to connect with the mother but sometime ago realized that wouldn't happen.  I couldn't understand why but now I get the fearfulness.  I can't get wrapped up in that.  It is too contagious and always needs to find a place to land because she can't own it.  That is what is happening there.  She is trying to put it on me.  I have been a dumping ground in the past but am tranitioning out of that.

I completely get the value of not going into that place of fear that I have lived in.  I can still see what happened to me without having to reexperience it.  I have always noticed that people who are able to accomplish much in life do not get caught up in the emotional aspect.  Some do it with compassion, most don't.  I have discounted all those people because of the heartless ones and stuck with other sufferers trying to find my way out while suffering.  But now I see that I need to rise above the suffering even while acknowledging it and being aware of it.

In my limited understanding that is what a good psychologist does - he stays outside of the patients emotions while having compassion and understanding for their suffering.  I actually believe I can do that for myself, not without help from here and help from my therapist but nonetheless I think I can rise above my own suffering with compassion and encouragement the way my parents should have but didn't.

thanks for your help.  It makes a tremendous difference.

[LilyCat]

SS, it sounds like you have a really good handle on everything. Great work!