The List...

[spyralle]

I started to think yesterday about why I am feeling like I want to have my face unhinged and stretched and cut.  Why I am never enough.  Why I have a boyfriend who tels me he loves me all the time yet I never feel it.  It is staring me in the face isn't it..  he's another N..  After everything I went through three years ago (Desperately seeking help after relationship break up) I am here again..  Right here! Only this time it is worse.  The rejection is bigger.. the humiliation the pain and along with it a new desire to physically change my appearance..  I was looking through a song book I had when I was a teenager and a came across a song I wrote when I was 19 An excerpt of it follows:

I looked at my self today love
I know that I'm not pretty in any way
There's a thousand things I could have done to change
But first I want to say
That I worried about the way I looked
And I
Kept on thinking you didn't care
I knew that one day you'd realise and I'd
Turn around and you wouldn't be there
But I ask myself if I'd changed my face
Or he colour of my hair
Would it have been fair to be
Someone...
So different to me...

And here I am at 45 still singing the same song only this time I'm actually contemplating doing it becaus I still can't live with myself.

i got a text from my boyfriend yesterday in Sri Lanka..  and after a day of physical and emotional pain I finally saw what is staring me in my not so pefect face.  I am enmeshed with another N.  I know I just said hat but I have to keep saying it so it sinks in...  and that is why I need to make the list..  because once and for all I need to know..

You see for the past few days i have returned al his texts but been quite cool, just so he doesn't think I am here pining for him..  He has been upping the ante just sending me subtle provokation but I have not bitten till yesterday..  I called him as he said he had called me numerous times.  He didn't answer..  he then text me and said he was staying overnight at Beccy's house and there was no phone..  he said remember the girl at school i told you about.  He had never mentioned anyone called Beccy..  I said as much and he did not respond..  S I finally got angry..  I said..  Don't bother to call me tomorrow as I'll be at Matt's house and he has no phone....  he sent me a text back which said... I am on holiday and I don't need this shit.  You go and do what you got to do with Matt whoever he is...!!!!  I know I shouldn't have sent the text but I was so pissed off with him .  After all remember I wasn't alowed to go on this holiday..

God I know I am babbling but I just need to talk this through..  here is my list of reasons why i think he is an N

He told me when he first met me he didn't fancy me
He told me I look older than him but he doesn't mind
When I said I was getting fat he pointed out the places where
I don't really cook any more as for some reason I now believe I can't
I don't dance anymore
He took my guitar to his school - he is a teacher - and broke it.. and left it there.
He got his ex girlfriend to lend him the money for this holiday.  Then he said just before he went that if I wanted to I could pay her back and the money could be a loan from me instead (Like he was doing me a favour)
I feel so ugly sice i have been with him
we were going out one day and he said he didn't like the top I had on, i started to iron a different one and he told me that he liked that less so to wear the other one
He wanted to do a fashion show of all his clothes for me
He invited me to his birthday party but wanted to let me know just before that that he had exes there.  When I didn't go he went anyway and has never forgiven me for not going
I don't watch the stuff I like on the TV anymore.  It is easier
When he first moved in I was attending creative writing classes.  The first evening I went he said he was lonely.  I never went back
He loves me is great at sex, extremely cuddly yet I feel empty and nervous and unloved
I bought a new camera.  It makes me feel nervous using it in front of him

Oh God when I list it it al sounds so minimal so why do I feel this way.  he hasn't text me since yesterday.  He's coming home on Wednesday..

Spyralle

[Izzy_*now*]

No Spy
That list is very telling. He is using and abusing you.

I'm sure you have heard this many a time--Beauty is on the inside! Your appearance sounds like a problem to you?  When your self-esteem improves, you will be happier and it will show on your face, in your actions, in your speech.....

If you cannot feel his love then he likely doesn't feel it himself. That sounds cruel, but on this board we have a hoard of people who have been abused, have/had low self-esteem, have/had "Abuse Me" written on their foreheads and and have been ripe for the picking.

He sounds like he is piling up exes, then showing them off to the new  soon-to-be-ex!

The list of things you used to enjoy and no longer do is very telling. He has removed your 'spunk'. That can be done without surgery. it is done on an in home basis and daily put-downs, selfishness and ambient abuse.

I hope I haven't been too brutal, but you sound very unhappy about this guy!

All the Best
izzy

[spyralle]

Hi Izzy,

You are not being brutal.  I asked..  I need help badly I am very scared at the whole situation and very shocked at what I see now when I look in the mirror.  i just went to my friends house and had to leave because I was so anxious...  I thought of more list stuff

I can't have children anymore and he talks about when he has a child
he talks about places HE is ging
He talks consistently about his exes... like they validate him
He always leaves stuff at the last place he lived..  like he can't disengage
He told me that he couldn't bear the though of never seeing me again when I said that if we split up it will be for good

I am realising that I have been the supply for another N..  I feel empty and grey and hollow...  He hasn't been in touch since the text exchange yesterday and he is back on Wednesday..  I feel permanently sick and ill..

Spy x

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi Spy
With my little eye.......what are the living arrangements--your place or his place first, then one moved in with the other?

You have yourself one big N

The last list is criminal--wants a child? really or just putting you down--if really, then dump him, like yesterday
The N I was with would telephone somebody and mention/talk about places WE had been but he always said "I", as though I hadn't even been there. I was chopping all the stuff for a big pot of soup or stew, sitting at the table and he would toss it into the pot amd stir. Phone rings, a friend that I know, and he tells him HE is making a big pot of..and lnterrupted and said loudly enough. "I'm doing all the work" and N had to concede that I was helping. That doesn't help a relationship.
"All his exes" just shows that he is a loser...cannot maintain a real relationship, but notches his bedpost!
Leaving stuff at exes....oh BOY. Been there, seen that!
Pathological liars, all of them.

Can you be gone when he gets back? That's why I asked about the place where you live.

Iz

[spyralle]

Hey Izzy,

No I can't be gone as we moved in together, I am paying most of the rent and all the bills and I have nowhere to go..  I have turned into tis pathetic crying thing that thinks she is far too ugly for him.... and therefore I am trapped.  He feels that the town we live is unsatisfactory and he wants to move back to London.  Whether I go with him or not appears to be irrelevant yet he seems unable to let me go.  If I had somewhere to go I would run and run and keep runnig.  I totally ignored my gut feeling.  I am terrified of what is happening to me because I feel so helpless and low.. and listen to me I am like a pathetic wreck.. 

He talks in the I all the time too..  When I go here when I go there. he never mentions me in phone calls either.  he used to.  He used to put me on a pedestal and told he world I was fantastic that I was the one..  It wore off really quickly though... 

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi spy

No I can't be gone as we moved in together,

That doesn't hold water! Even  married people walk out on each other!

Does he work and contribute to the household, the bills?

Do you have money left over? that you could save? What do you need there for an apt? first and last rent, or first and damage deposit? if you have that, then  You can rent on the sly, then move out with your things when he is at work, but you cannot leave your responsibilities behind. Any bills etc. that he could come after you, but if he hasn't been paying then he owes you!!!!!

Who owns the furniture? Are you on a lease? both names? Just yours? (We were on a lease under both names and I had to officially remove mine in order to not be responsible if he couldn't afford the rent.)

Make him pay( ½ and ½) or kick him out! Ask him to leave and have somebody (the police) handy in case there's trouble? You can make it on your own!!!!

Did you know that all of us women are stronger than those men! They are whiners and crybabies at heart! That's how they suck us in. We feel they need us but haven't said so....just put out the vibes!

Oh yes that charm at the beginning is what drags you in (part of their plan) then once you are hooked they"disappear' and the DEVIL takes their places. The DEVIL is everywhere you know. That's why we are all here on this board!

That is why I left and am enjoying my peace and serenity without him!

Trying is the beginning of doing!
Izzy

[LilyCat]

Spy,

Whatever he is, he isn't good for you. And anyone else, it sounds like.

He lives with you in your place? If so, have his bags packed and ready to meet him when he comes in the door. Or better yet, have them waiting outside and don't let him come in the door.

If you're living in his place, just reverse it. Pack your stuff and leave. Find somewhere, anywhere, to go.

I know it's very hard, but I am glad you are seeing him for what he is.

You are beautiful, Spy. Never forget that and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

((((Spy))))

LilyCat

[changing]

Dear Spy-

You have gotten such wonderful wise and loving imput from Our Izzy, Leah and Lily. You are not trapped- and you don't even have to get a divorce!!!! Get some money together, no more spending on this Nparasite who takes from you and his ex-GF. Get all of your affairs in order while he is away- this is the perfect time to break it off!!!! Let Beccy handle his problems!!!

I don't know who is living in whose place, whose name is on leases, etc- but this can alll be sorted out!!! Pack his or your stuff and don't let NViciousParasite know... You can spend the same time , money and energy on you Spy!!! You needn't pay such a price for sex and cuddling- the world is full of darling men !!!! You have until Wednesday... Oh how I envy your ability to shake this man off without the legal system!!!! Godspeed to you!!!

Love,

C.

[spyralle]

Hi All and thanks..  I know I sound weak it's just that even though both our names are on the lease I know e will leg it without paying and I want a good rental histor.  i have the money to go as I have just sold my house but I can't afford to pay for two places at the same time.  the lease runs out soon ..  I found out today that he did not put the £650 into my account that he said he had before he went on holiday..  I text him and asked him why he had lied and he sent an aggrssive text back telling me to check the statement properly.  I replied saying I had and where did he get off speaking to me like I was a piece of sh*t.  He then send me this long text telling me he was really sorry that he had got it wrong and he had checked the bank and the money had gone through....  he has been trying to ring m all night and I have just let it ring.  he has left me messagess and can't understand why I won't respond.  i am so drained with pain and emotion I have nothing left to say..

Spy x

[debkor]

Oh I don't know about weak Spy...you are not weak...for sure....you may be hurt and rightfully so...you have been harmed...wounded and now you see.....and so does the b/f....

Please listen:::

This is strength that you are feeling Spy...not weakness...it hurts.. but it's still strength...it's every part of YOU screaming out to yourself.....your worth,  your self esteem, your dignity... and you do have it...it's just wounded..not weak...Your just tired and hurt...but I hear you..and so does the b/f.......Look at this... Look at what you wrote::::

I found out today that he did not put the £650 into my account that he said he had before he went on holiday..  I text him and asked him why he had lied and he sent an aggressive text back telling me to check the statement properly.  I replied saying I had and where did he get off speaking to me like I was a piece of sh*t.  He then send me this long text telling me he was really sorry that he had got it wrong and he had checked the bank and the money had gone through....  he has been trying to ring m all night and I have just let it ring.  he has left me messagess and can't understand why I won't respond.

Oh yes he does understand..it's called confrontation..something he does not like...and you fired back at him.. told him who does he think he's talking to...checked up on the bank deal...then didn't buy into the B.S and ignored his phone calls....
He is scared...he is weak..... and Boy is he showing it in that statement alone...  he is seeing you gain the power the strength and knows.. his ass will be kicked to the curb eventually...he is trying.. the old.. but but I don't understand...New Flash Bud...things are changing.....boundaries are going to be set... checkup will be done...and he will be held responsible for his actions...

Why do you think he always mentions, ex girlfriends, how he wants children, where in life he is going, where he wants, to live...he wants you to be afraid.. to not think you are good enough...cannot hold on to him... Oh, F**k Spy  He wants you to be so worried about what will he do..where does he want to be.. maybe I'm not good enough FOR FEAR that you will find out...he IS NOT....and now you are finding out..

They are dumb.. yes dumb, they may have book wits but when it comes to common sense...well...I would have to argue that...at least the two I knew....OK so he banks on your hurts, your fears, Don't they All....whatever ones we have... man they can target them...but they fail to see...the strength....or do they? 

I see it now although you are hurting...and I know he does too.. he is afraid.. I bet.....he has lost some control... and bet your bottom dollar.. he will suck up....just to confuse you again.. try to throw you off track...make you want to stop feeling those Self Protective Strong Feelings you are having...FOR YOU!!!! That is why you want to run!!!  It's called Self Protection...

I am seeing the same thing he is... wounded  BUT  Dignity, Self- Esteem, and self Worth, and the fight is on... for you..... and I am so damn happy....He on the other hand is most probably scared....the buck is up....you are taken back your power...and it may not feel enough for you now.. but oh Hell Girl....it's a huge thing...says it all in the statement, the actions taken.....and it's huge for him too...he does not quite know what to do.. and he will surely work you hard now..... YOU KEEP THAT!!!! SET YOUR BOUNDARIES, AND YOU WILL continue to get it together.

I know you can't leave right now...and that is alright...everyones time is different....and look through my eyes because it's your reflection that is coming back at you....this is what I see::: Strength,  Dignity, self-esteem and worth....that came from your words.  I believe in you. Believe in yourself...and as crazy as this may sound right now.. he is seeing the same reflection...he is seeing the same things..as I do.. only I love it.. he hates it.. he is scared...and feeling a loss...so he will try very hard to squash it and that may be through acting loving and manipulation....Oh well.. let him knock himself out over this...you keep going girl...boundaries, accountabilities, and keep moving ahead...don't look at the end right now... just look at you moving....You are taking a stand and saying....NO MORE...he does not define you..he just plays on your fears.. to squash his own..only his never go away..he knows he will be abandoned in the long run...see Spy..his greatest fear is this..so he tries to change others through abuse and self sabatoges himself..and as I always say...the other side of fear is freedom..and they always do like to compete, do they not, only they do not realize that if they bring out the fears that we may have buried and we then are confronted to face them.... well... the other side is freedom...and that is from N's to boot maybe for a lifetime.  Freedom!!!

I believe in you, no matter, What....

Love
Deb

[Ami]

Dear Spy
 If s/one told me to respect myself , a few months ago, I would not have understood what that meant. I did not have a self enough to respect.
 I was my M's lackey, flunkie. I falied her and I WAS a failure.
 Now, I see that I deserve the same respect as another human being. It is an essential, not a luxury.
 I need to respect myself .
 I would not let a man treat me poorly anymore, I don't think.
  The NM puts such a horrible hurting on us. I so understand. Spy.I wish there were a way we could exorise all the N's messages from our heads, messages that doom us. You are worth more than abuse.The NM put a curse on us, Spy, like the curses in the fairy tales.We need to find the way to break the curse. My heart goes out to you, Spy.      Ami

[spyralle]

Thankyou all for your support... I have just had 4 days living hell.  He came back from Sri Lanka and told me over and over that he was concerned because he hadn't nissed me enough.  I finally bit and asked him if he wanted to end it so he said he thought he did.  Since then he has been playing what I call the pull push game.  First he is leaving so I ask him to leave then he doesn't want to go because he loves me and can't bear the thought of being without me..  I told him all about how I felt about the way I look and how I can't bear to look at myself..  He folowed this up by teling me that he had been confiding a lot in his cousin who was really beautiful..  Then he decided he was staying.. (On day 3) and we made love following which he disappears out of the flat..  He comes back looking sheepish and I ask where he has been..  He has been phoning his cousin..  Aparently they have feelings for each other he tells me.. (She is married!!!)  He would like us to make a go of it though despite this new information as nothing can happen as they are cousins....!!

I really lost it and started packing his stuff myself and generally just self destructing..  He followed me around the flat just staring at me teling me he loves me then saying he is going because he can't love me the way I need him too..  Then saying he wants to stay then he doesn't..  My head was in pieces..  This morning he again sat around just watching me self destruct as he packed one thing at a time sitting down to tell me he iso desperately sorry he has hurt me.  Then he says he wants to stay then he says he can't stop thinking about his cousin...  In the end I attacked him and basically forced him to leave.  He went into a massive sobbing bout said he would love me forever and left...

I was in pieces and now I am just numb he has just sent me a text like it never happened aying ...

Hello babe, I realise you may not want me to contact you but sometimes there are things yu need to get off your chest whether or not anyone wants to listen.  Have spent all day worrying about you.  I really hope that you will rediscover your sparkle soon now that I am not around to make you miserable.  it's strange that we seemed to connect again in the moments before I left.  You said I think that you realised that you had been trying to hold on and I appreci........  That's where it stops.....!

My therapist says no contact so I am going to just ignore it and try not to spend my time wondering what the end of the message would have been..  I am alone again now and I have honestly no clue what I am feeling...

Spyralle x

[Hopalong]

Dear Spy...

Boy, what a gaslighter. What a drama prince. What an incredibly selfish and entitled and inconsiderate and cruel person.

Who CARES who got the last word (or syllable).

Endings can be messy but that really really really really really doesn't matter.

Thank God this is ending. He toyed with you like a cat with a wounded mouse. Good god, what an ego.

Leave your beautiful face alone, dear woman. You were a model, fer goddsake. No wonder you've been fed all this crap about physical perfection. You know it's crap too. The Spy who can't tolerate this manipulation any more is the SAME Spy who knows so much more than you give yourself credit for...

I believe in you too. And you need a rest from men, and some strong women in 3D to support you.

I hope hope you will go out and find them because they will help you, a support group of women, and you will strengthen your strength and you will learn to choose, to be the chooser, of the kind of partner one day who will bring comfort and calm and peace to your life.

I know it.

Love to you and bravo...this is a brave and heroic battle you're waging and you don't have to do it perfectly.

love
Hops

[spyralle]

I got the other half of that message last night and it managed to churn me up completely.....  it basially said that he appreciated m empathy and concern and that I was a beautiful fragile flower with a huge heart who he wil always love but could never make happy as he is a clumsy oaf and he hopes I now get my sparkle back......  He ended it with I love you.... take care... 

I am enraged.  I am enraged in myself for throwing my arms around him before he left and sobbing that I loved him when I know full well that that is not the case... I am enraged that he has used words like beautiful and fragile... when he has made me feel ugly and clumsy and worthless...  I am enraged that he has made himself into some kind of martyr tortured soul who loves me but has to walk away because he knows he is hurting me..  I THREW HIM OUT!!!!!!!  I am enraged because I know that for months he has been premeditating this affair with his cousin... who he must have secretly invited to the wedding from Canada. He has spent my money and taken my self esteem and then he sends me that text.  I so badly want to text him back.  I want to put..  Please do not mistake PITY for empathy....  He has managed to keep me awake all night even though he has gone and my stomach is churning....  I have not replied.... I have said so much to him about the way he has abused me and he cmes back with that..  i wish I had never cried in the last moments..  he has that to hold onto now..  He lied and cheated and took advantage of me for Gods sake!!!!!!  and even though he did all that I hate the thought that this beautiful woman loves him it just makes me feel more ugly!!!

Before he went i refused to let him have his laptop and a number of other things as I was so angry..  My therapist says I should box them all up and eventually fnd a way of getting them to him as she feels as long as I have then I am maintaining the connection.  I took his laptop because on his birthday, he coerced me into buying it for him and clearly has been using it to set up his relationship with the very beautiful cousin..  I bought it with love and it is just one of the many ways that he has taken advantage of me.  i am now in a dilemna as I have no inention of giving it back..  The other stuff yes, but that just feels like I am weakly still being taken advantage of..

Do you think it is over now?

p.s. Hope you are OK Hops..  I don't know why you thought I was ever a model.  I am a nurse.  The reason I am obsessed with my looks is that my mother taught me that nothing else mattered...

Spyralle x

[spyralle]

he rang yesterday and I got someone at work to pick up the phone and say I wasn't there....  It's so hard..  I am so desperate for him to phone but I am understanding that I never will take him back because he is so toxic...  I fact I was so unhappy that I owuld never want him back...  But the pain is excruciating... xx