narcissits and addictions

[capricorn2]

I am new to the board and have read many messages. This is chapter one of my story.
I remain in a quandry as to where does the narcissist cross over into an addict.
I am recently separated from a man in a marriage of 35 years (yes WOW)
only to forgive him after taking him back 15 years ago along with his double life of strip joints .. yikes.    After believing all his lies of working late etc. etc. I finally am learning to believe myself.  His strip joint addictions turned into a gambling addiction. There was always a new promise of not doing it again!!!

We are now separated for ten months and without a word from the "crumb" my cousillor says if it was only addiction he would have called by now.  It is more like an NPD - personality disorder.  For me it is like having been to hell and back - seeing how I became a reflection of his horrible traits and he lived off me, fed off "my" good qualities and he is the crumb of his own life.  He has made his bed and now has to sleep in it -with who ever else.  I still ask myself when did he cross the line without me being able to tell truth from lie.
Forgiveness for me can only come with change, grieving my loss and moving on. It is horrible and a financial mess at this stage of life - leftovers of a gambler, narcissist, sex addict - is there a difference?
Has anyone else had "crumbs" like this in their lives where the addict and narcissist are one and the same??

/cappi

[sjkravill]

Hi Cappi,
Oh my, what a stressful and heartbreaking life you have lived.  I hope you are healing now.

It is interesting you mention the crossover between N and addict.  My H is probably not NPD, but he does have N traits. And, he does have an addictive personality.  My H's addictions are mostly soft... internet, video games, tv.... But there is alcaholism in his family.  If he has a drink a few nights in a row, the first night that he doesn't, he can sense that he wants it. He is aware of this and tries to keep it in check. But I know there is potential for him to head down some dangerous paths.

This is my observation. I think Narcissism and Addicition have something in common.  They are both about self-deception. both are in a great deal of denial. N and A do not know who they are, and are afraid to find out.  N and A are afraid of intimacy with another person.  Addiction is a coping mechanism for N.  Addiction is a false sense of connectedness and security, and it is a way of avoiding the truth, intimacy, or what have you.

Peace to you Cappi as you continue to navigate the road to healing!

[bunny]

We are now separated for ten months and without a word from the "crumb" my counselor says if it was only addiction he would have called by now.

There is a strong connection between addiction and narcissism. An addict only cares about themselves. An addict has no empathy for their family. An addict's life revolves around self-gratification. An addict is totally selfish. An addict will screw over those who care most about him. An addict will not take responsibility.

My guess is that your H is using some other woman now and will get back to you later, when he needs you. Ten months doesn't mean anything. It may take longer than that. But you'll hear from him again (unfortunately).

It doesn't really matter what, precisely, is wrong with him. What matters is that you save yourself.

bunny

[capricorn2]

thanks for your replies..your input is soothing.
Part of my further grieving process is almost like having to let go of the addiction myself - feelings have become so intertwined.  In asking the "crumb" to leave, I have shaken up the family mobile and now suffering from the punishment of the silent treatment.  They are my gems and I await their return to my principles - not his!!!
Another part of me has to grieve and let go of the charming, false front that the "crumb" put on to keep leading me on.  I tell my friends - my"new" few friends that if they met him they would also fall in love with the false front.
Thru his sexual addictions including porno movies and the internet he could probably perform greatly - but denied any intimacy with me or my children  i.e. like even taking them on canoe trips - he is a great canoeist.
Like the counsillor said that would mean sharing and intimacy - so beware when that man/woman in your life keeps that distance - someone else is savoring what is on his/her menu !!!
My challenge is detaching from the "crumb" but not my children!!!
cappi

[capricorn2]

Hi Bunny/others - thanks
My therapist has used EMDR with me which can be used in a general sense....  I have found this helpful in every day life.  EMDR can be found on the Internet. To the best of my limited knowledge, Sam is "real" money making proposition !!! My choice is not to go there.

Yes, you are right the narcissist will come knocking at your door when he/she wants something.  Just as you said, yesterday, he came for his golf clubs (still in storage here) - can you imagine after ten months and nothing else to say.  Knowing his temper tantrums, I asked in our meeting if he can only be civil!!! This would help my family get closer to me who are still on the same page as the "crumb" is.

His needs are all that matter and I spent all those years fullfilling his supply - narcissist supply - the whole family was HIS supply...  CRUMB!!!  I still keep thinking that he may care a "little" about me!!!  I have difficulty getting it thru my head that I am the caring person and he does not give a ......!!!  So I still need held with that.


He is becoming more and more of a dead issue... and
"OH, to be alive at such an age!!!"
cappi

[Anonymous]

Cappi,

Your H is a strip-joint and gambling addict (and more), and your family can't understand your problems with him?  

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Cappi,

Sometimes N is very good at convincing surrounding family and friends to conspire with him against (you).  N can appear very charming... Sometmes he can even convince everyone (including you) that he is innocent, and that you don't have a right to be hurt, or upset.  Everybody begins to think you are intolerant and difficult to please.

Do they even know of his addictions? You don't have to protect his privacy. N can get us to feel so ashamed that we do not feel we can tell others about what is going on. We think it is our fault, or we want to protect his reputation because we believe he has a good heart.  But the truth is, they are your friends, and your support group.  You have the right to tell them the facts of what has been going on.  

Once I started talking honestly with my friends, I began to hear my story from their perspective.  Suddenly I knew how terrible it sounded.  I wanted to devalue my experinece and make excuses for him, but my friends and their horrified reaction kept me honest and let me know I was sane and my feelings were valid.  They were very supportive.

If he has already co-opted your support group, than you should tell friends who don't know him.  It's good that you are talking to a therapist...

[capricorn2]

Bunny/guest
(corrected spelling for narcissist - bugs me  
You are sure hitting it right on for me - refreshing affirmations.
The therapist has also had to work with me on the fact that no doubt my mother was a narcissist - and I learned how to please her and my family of origin from an early age.  So I have to work thru that unconscious part of where I may be coming from  - the therapist also suspects NPD - with the "crumb"

I think my own adult children felt the real problem even before me and I have to work with who is in denial most -that is also part of the challenge Bunny. I am recognizing how I became "his" reflection and not being true to my true self so the children perhaps still see me as part of "HIS" problem.

I have also been able to finally get past some of the hurt and pain and started getting in touch with his buddies - our friends- all that you say guest is revealing his double life is true.  Yes they are in shock - but it sure relieves me of much of the burden.  His enablers come from way back before my time - and I just took over and carried more of the load.
This board is great in relieving some of that load - How does the "N" always manage to find you???

The greatest gift I can give to "my" self is to NOW enable my self - not him.   I was very good in add- itions where 2 plus 2 equals 4 - but failed  drastically in learning about add-ictions where 2 plus 2 - equals more !!  I am slow learner there and learning from the more from the board.

Another therapy exercise from my therapist that helps relieve some anger hurt and pain is TAPAS
Thanks for a voice.
cappi

[capricorn2]

Hi again
So I had a heated conversation with one son - where I see so much of the "rigid" thinking and where I get stuck or labelled with the problem.
How does one break that reflection and mirror so that the narcissist/addict or personality disorder does not keep getting away scott free??  He said I made him angry with my e-mail and he has only been angry twice in how ever long - by my e-mail and telephone call.  I only wish to stop walking on eggshells - how does one do that without a screaming match?  Also, by him or his father, I am supposed to know how I evoke the anger at the other end and be held responsible for their anger.  I say NO< just because I said something that makes his father angry does NOT give him excuse to stomp out and gamble or head off to a strip joint and lay on the guilt.  I feel it is normal to feel angry or is there a better way in dealing with them and just staying away - it becomes a lose lose situation.  I care about my children very much even though they are adults.
The family say that "mother" is the one that pushes them away - yet I am so ready to cut the family off in my being pushed away.  The control of the narcissist or "rigid" thinking style is a challenge to break!!  or does one??

This seems to be a hard pattern to break where addicts, narcissists or personality disorders are in the family.  The empathic. feeling person becomes the scapegoat or mirrors the problems.
cappi

[capricorn2]

Well...
What has come to mind from a voice of the past is my NMother  - who in her yelling and screaming, said to me "you" think you are better than any one else.... well I got to thinking well you know - may be I am and I worked on that and know
what folks - most often we are better than anyone else (n's) - take it and run!! - thought, feeling - action!!

One thing she always used to do was as soon as I had a bad dream or anything she would haul me off to the phychic - who was supposed to do wonderful things to straighten me out - ha ! ha!  Who needed the straightening out???  pause check......
cappi

[capricorn2]

Hi - and those posts keep soothing our broken spirits.

I have just read the book " Why is it Always About YOU?"  and what a confirmation to my experience of putting my "ex-crumb" on a pedestal - it is no wonder everyone thinks he is great (his inflated self)  - I put him up there and in doing so was putting my self down  - so when I stopped, he started falling an found other means (addictions) other people to fill his n'needs.  But in reading the book those N's are all around us.

I also re-watched The Wizard of Oz (a big N!) and saw myself as the little girl leading others to see the Wizard - but the tin man gives me a pretty good image of my ex N - stumbling and falling all the way !!

I have been making a list of all the projected images that my ex projected on to me to make himself feel good and make me feel guilty.
I thought I would share them with the panel and hope others have some traits to share in the making of the hero N in his/her attempts in TRYING to make others "look" like the Tin man or victim.

From the N - crumb!
You are being omnipotent....
Suspicious - lying
Pushing me away
Revenge
Playing the role of victim
Martyr
Jealous ( a big one used at me during his flirtations!!)
Do I have to hold your hand?
Malicicous (sp)
Ulterior Motive

Any others from the panel??
cappi

[capricorn2]

Hindsight!!  Foresight!!!  Moving forward!!

Life with an N or A is like rewinding a movie and seeing what has been going on and waking up to realities!!

How much do the N and A have in common - they chase all lesser things of evil and work so hard at bringing others down to their lower functions.
If they dont find it in you, they will have the determination to make it happen.  N's will charm and work at having another need fullfilled.  And then when they no longer "need" you- not LOVE you - they are not capable of loving - they drop you and on to the next vulnerable caring person  to keep you on some one else on their trap line!!
I have been trapped for a long time and finally setting  MY "true self" free.

People to the N or A are toys and yet they think of themselves as people persons.  They use people like  toys to be played with whether it is sex or someone to wind up and play with all aspects of character - untill the victim surrenders - they will continue their game.

Do the opposite to their way of thinking and you will crack their mirrors every time.  They will hate you for it.

Being true to oneself is an absolute necessity. That is when one can finally rewind that movie to hear one's own normal thinking process. They do not understand normal thinking. I am still having difficulty in seeing that this was not a man I lived with, but a little irresponsible boy who is always looking for some one to look after them and then blame them when things go wrong.  So then the blamed one. like myself, keeps looking for creative solutions to an impossible cure!!!

Thank goodness that we can change and and instead of caring and loving the N's  we can start doing for ourselves what seemed like impossible.  
It is no wonder now that my N - ex was so petrified when I asked him to join me in the jacuzzi.  With some one normal that would have been an invite, with an N it is absolutely scarrrrry !!

NOW that warm beautiful bubble bath alone is soooooh sooooothing!!!  I love myself.

Be intimate with an N and scare the "s.." out of him and he/she will run like....
With love,
/cappi

[capricorn2]

Today,

This is another biggee in my life - dealing with my children who now have a consensus that "I am pushing them away".  I heard it often enough from their N and  addictive father - who I have learned thru therapy I was addicted to had to break away from.  Anther answer for me - break FREE and break AWAY!!  - detach, detach, detach.

It is interesting how one person - their N father - can feel one thing and how that feeling can be generalized - whether it be family, work place or any group!! That can happen thru charm, manipulation or what ever means -   Your heart carries the pain and your mind carries how you feel - thinking positive thoughts is a god send.  I work on it every day with my yoga - and deep breathing!!

Closeness terrifies the N !!! Of course they are afraid of anyone knowing how frail they really are inside and - easy to break !!!

Time will tell who is pushing who away and is it my children also not wishing me to get close to them - always keeing that distance for their own safety and closeness to a "normal" relationship.
The closer I get to the truth the better I feel about myself -
repeat MY Self!!
Knowing that my life starts with ME now!!
/cappi

[Dawning]

Hi.  I think N's can cleverly conceal their addictions.  Bringing up their addictions to them as a way of showing care and concern can set off attacks of N rage more than likely because their addiction is a clear indication that they are not perfect.  

In Christiane Northrup's excellent book, *Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom* she renames patriarchy, *the addictive system.*  I truthfully don't know one person without an addiction.  

Having said that, here is something about the addictive personality that reached out to me in a soothing way.  Hope it helps and offers something positive to think about.

http://yourdailyaffirmation.com/abundance_prosperity/addictive_personality.htm

[capricorn2]

Hi Dawning
All what you say is so true.  I strongly believe that one can (as I have) turned over any addiction or more so call it a  passion to do anyting creative.  In living with an addict/narcissist I became a reflection.  The mirror cracked for my ex when I emotionally detached from his addictions.
I continue to detach, detach, detach or detox, detox, detox from and addict's or n's ways.  Any one can do if they so choose.

For me, creative is to do good and my passion and discipline lives thru the arts, teaching and practising.  It is a strong discipline  We are naturally all creative.  To be true to one's self.  Destructive behavior is learned and progressive.

I found in the early stages of my marriage, I was also able to turn any destructive behavior (fear aggression) of my children into positive behavior and to use if for their own GOOD.
I found your web site also of interest. Tnx.

I even had a dog that I retrieved from the Kennel who was fear aggressive and growled at the world!!!  He is now a beautiful lap dog!!!
Capricorn2