The refusal to believe.

[axa]

I was thinking yesterday and wanted to share my thoughts with you.  I have spent so much of my life wondering why I have been attracted to such dysfunctional people and something came to me.  Is there something about being attracted to people who share a similiar emptiness as yourself?  Have I looked into their empty spaces hoping to find what I want for myself instead of surrounding myself with people who actually have something to give.  This seems to make some sense to me.  Does anyone else have thoughts on it.  I have an image of going to an empty cupboard looking for what I know is not there and yet going back over and over again looking at those empty shelves.  I think, only now, am I beginning to get this.  People cannot give you what they have not got - so simple when I stand back and think about it.  And what seems to have been a huge barrier for me is that I could not believe that the cupboards were bare, no matter how many times I looked I refused to believe it.  It is childlike and niave another indication of a blockage in my emotional development.  While I knew the four year old was in charge of my relationships I never really got it until now.

Hugs to all,

axa

[Gaining Strength]

Hello Axa,

I think that much of it is sub or unconscious and so that leads me to bellieve that there is some kind of "energy" that recognizes a similar "energy" in others who are functioning with the same holes.  So my philosophy has been to cevelop my CONscious level of understanding with the hopes and belief that such a state will allow me to draw and be drawn to people other than those with such holes and empty cupboards.

[sunblue]

I also think that because we know about that emptiness and hurt and pain firsthand, we sometimes see that in others and want to help them overcome it, as we might have hoped someone would have done for us.  I think it also makes us feel needed or perhaps special in some way to help someone else?  Besides, we're so used to dysfunction and narcissism, that when it is demonstrated in others, it does not seem unnatural to us.  While most people could identify this in orders and run the other way, we've been used to dysfunction....it is normal, not abnormal.

I also think these dysfunctional people, by their very nature, are manipulative and very adept at hitting upon those most vulnerable.  They take advantage of those with good natures and zero in on that....In some cases, it seems the cards are stacked against us...

It also seems (and this could just be my own personal experience)...that there are so many of these dysfunctional people in this world...Their numbers seem to be growing!!...It gets harder to play dodge ball around them...

Just my two cents.

[Izzy_*now*]

I certainly  believe we are led to believe, or 'make up" to believe many things that are not so.

For the most part, I remember a very nice young man who was "good-looking, intelligent, attending University, wore a suit for dates" and he liked me well enough to ask me on a date. (I always dressed well anyway!)

I was, however, rather plain, but had developed whatever this sense of humour of mine can be called--it is there whether I am depressed, bitched off, walking, rolling, whatever...........I still have the 'originals' rolling off my tongue. He liked me, but I had already finished high school, & was working in an office, and felt SO far beneath him on the intelligence scale, that I dumped him.

I recall things like this, but not necessarily the feelings attached, per se.  I guessed! I would expect in this case, I would have thought I would never be a 'University material girl-friend' that could live up to him, and many times I would date a 'bar bouncer' for months until I was bored and wanted someone more intelligent.

I was always at odds with myself.

don't know if this made sense, but it's what came to mind.

xx
Iz

[mudpuppy]

Have any of you all met someone who was functional?

CB123,

Perhaps a definition of terms would help. If dysfunctional means someone with truly abnormal or impaired functioning then yes I've met lots of people who were very functional; I married one. 
I can't say I have ever met anyone without some quirks or unique attributes. But in many people they don't amount to anything more than a slight eccentricity, some of which are endearing and some of which can be kind of annoying.
I will admit the majority of people seem to have impaired functionality because of either learned or genetic peculiarities or downright pathological behaviors, but I think sometimes we allow that prevalence of dysfunction to lump perfectly harmless and inconsequential personal predilections into the truly 'dysfunctional'.
Do you think having interacted with true pathological Ns predisposes some of us to overanalyze and accentuate the quirkiness of humanity? Maybe causes us to look for the root of some things which are in the long run pretty inconsequential? And is it possible to concentrate on examining those things to the extent we may risk making relationships more difficult than necessary?
I'm not sure what the answers to those questions are but I do think we need to consider them. There's nothing wrong with introspection so long as we don't disappear up our own navel.

mud

[teartracks]

Hi CB,

WOW!  What you say is true.  The only thing that concerns me now is whether I've been using the word dysfunctional when I should be using pathological.    

When I was in business, I ran into situations where  employees had  serious issues and I had to take serious action to correct it from my end.   1)  A nurse with a drug habit.  She was dealing too.  2)  A woman I was persuaded to hire by another employee.  She stepped right into my shoes, or at least she thought she had.  Even had her husband calling me to give me directions on how I should be doing things.  3)  One drank on the job.  4)  One was a Harley Mama and came to work dressed as one although we had a simple, easy to understand dress code.  There were others.  These are the ones that come to mind.  Oh yes, there was the cook who put the electric meat slicer (table top version) into the dishwasher, motor and all.    

I can't define normal for you.  I  have one normal friend.   Or maybe her dysfunctions compliment my own?  I don't know CB.  Virtually everyone and every everyday thing seems exceedingly complex nowadays.

tt

[sKePTiKal]

Ah, CB.... such an excellent question!

I'm not sure that anyone is totally normal, either. I do believe it IS a myth, if we're defining normal in such fairy-tale, tv-land (thinking Leave it to Beaver, My 3 Sons...) terms. McLuhan's "media" has conditioned us to believe that there really are such people in the world.

"Normal" people have pain-points; habits, routines, vices and relational issues, too. I think it's not so much the defining characteristics of an individual, as it is, whether the person finds themself limited, trapped, unable to change or learn... which become the marks on the yardstick or continuum... of "normal". Whether or not a person is able to say: I want to be THAT and is able to work toward becoming "that", ya know?

Sometimes, the only thing missing is information, financing, perspective. Sometimes, it's belief - in one's worthiness or ability to attain the goal. Sometimes it's just the timing that's out of whack... or unrealistic expectations.

Most of the time, I'm coming to believe... it's not so much what one IS that becomes the benchmark of "normal" on the continuum. It's how we function, interact, and how we do.... (not as much WHAT we do)... that is the qualifier... the criteria.

Just my observations. Not sure I'm "right" about this - even for myself. Been thinking about several things at just this level, though. Your question fit right in with those "conversations" I'm having with myself!  

[sunblue]

Hmmmm....I believe everyone has insecurities and issues, some much more than others....but I also think there are some people out there who are as close to normal as you can get.  On the other hand, there are many others, who have issues that are out of the ordinary and which impact not only their lives but the lives of others around them.  These individuals can alternately be dysfunctional, abnormal. pathological or mentally ill....It does seem however, that there are more dysfunctional people proportionately than "normal" ones....I'm not sure if that is entirely environmental, biological or sociological....but it makes life very difficult for sure.

[towrite]

Axa - I know exactly what you mean. I was so empty for years and was attracted to similarly empty people. After lots of therapy, I realized it was my way of not looking at my own emptiness. I focused on their emptiness so I didn't have to look closely at my own.

hugs, towrite