What about the funeral?

[nassim]

Hey gals and guys,

I have played this out in my head and not made any progress. Maybe someone could throw out a few gems of wisdom on the subject of funerals for Ns you haven't been in contact with...in my case, my mother.

Say it's been 15 years and you've had little to no contact and the N dies. Do you go to the funeral? I've always believed that going to a funeral is more about the ones still alive than the dead, but if it's your parent, does this matter if your siblings know you haven't been in contact? Some of them feel pretty ambivilent about the parent as well, and I know my oldest sister who still lives fairly close by will make arrangements for her.
But I'm not sure anyone is going to be grieving all that much as bad as that sounds.

Maybe this is one of those situations that you don't know what you'd do until the time comes. But if anyone has been through this after not having contact, I'd like some thoughts.

N

[Lizbeth]

My husband and I have discussed this already (concerning his N mother).  He does not intend to go to his mother's funeral when she dies nor will he help pay for her funeral expenses if his aunts call him when she does.  He also does not want her at his wake or funeral if something happens to him before she dies.  In fact, he does not want me to let his Aunts know if he dies until he is already cremated and buried.  

We joke that she will sense he is dead the minute it happens, like a bott fly, because she would think she would be entitled to money somehow.

[flower]

Hi Nassim,

This is a needed thread IMO. Probably one of the most needed in fact. Thank you Nassim for bring this up for discussion.

This is one of those inevitable future mile stones I have been dreading -- their funerals.  They are up there in age and well talk about somewhere I don't want to be and that is sitting in a straightback chair, facing a coffin, wearing black and hearing how wonderful a mom or dad they were. This gives me chills and makes me sick to think of it. But still glad you brought it up.  

I've stopped contact this year with Nmom - its been about 9 months now and already I am gaining a sense of self I never had. My marriage with my husband - 27 years - has taken on a new vitality it never had. The contentious one has been thrown out and the strife is gone from our marriage. (not perfect but kind of honeymoon like here) How can these be wonderful parents when being around them was like death to my sense of self? My daughter is coming back to life after getting away from the doubting vampire of a grandma! My son has new respect for me.

So the idea of going to a funeral to honor your abuser?  

So back to the funeral idea.... I have no contact with all my side of the family . A lot of them are dead already too. The rest of the people mostly had my mom as the conduit for the relationship and her gossip ruined what shed of relationship I had with them. My thought has been, I'm not goingto the funerals. The stranger-to-me relatives can think what they want, they already have been gossiped about how I'm crazy and a bad person anyway.  

The funeral would undoubtedly bring up and freshen up the memories of abuse. Yes - that's right , the funeral is for those who are living. None of the potential living  at the time of the funeral even care to see how I am doing in the good times. They stopped contact quite awhile back.

Yet I do feel a responsibility as a child to bury my parents who were instrumental in bringing me into the world. Who is going to bury them? I might not even know if they are dead. How does this work?  I don't want to face my N brother the sanctimonius bully. I guess if some government person comes to me with the news I am the last living relative, I would have them buried with no service - just a pastor to console me with my husband there for support.

This funeral thing seems like the ultimate bait with the hook of my huge sense of responsibility.

I used to think those who didn't visit their parents in the nursing home or go to their funerals were just horrible people. Well, I may be "one of them 'horrible' folks". I don't like not having some sort of finalized policy to do when the time comes for a funeral. Yet I think about waiting and seeing. But, this wait and see thing has been a source of trouble for me cause I end up being pressured to go some way I don't want to.

Nassim - I'm thinking I'll take care of them (pay for care in a nursing home) if their fortune $$$ boo-ko bucks and resources they have runs out for the nursing home care and they need food and clothes and shelter and bury them if there is no one to bury them.

Lizbeth, I like your husband's request to not let the nmom know if he goes first. This is good. I imagine my mom sucking the sympathy off her second daughter to go before her and how I was such a bad egg.

I'd like to hear others who have stopped contact for years and faced this also.

[Lizbeth]

I commend people being so responsible they think all of this is their duty even considering the horrible abuse suffered at the hands of the N for years.  I commend you for it, but I wonder why you do it just the same.   My husband's mother never spent a responsible day in her life, never worked a day, prostituted herself, took drugs, lived off welfare and now SSI, abused her only son his entire life and tried to steal his identity for a lawsuit (by claiming one of her druggy boyfriends was in fact my husband) and worse when he was an adult until we did NO CONTACT a few years ago and recently reiterated it when she sent him a birthday present.  Both of us feel it would be hypocrital to have anything to do with her funeral. and don't care what anyone in his family thinks.  She is a true N monster.  To us, it would be another way for his family to use him.  Let the enablers, his Aunts, pay for her funeral.

As for not wanting them around when he dies (if something happens and he goes before them or before me), I don't want any of their hysterical, self-centered behavior and certainly none of his mother's money grubbing he's my son crap when I'm trying to deal with the death of my husband.  Let them find out when he's gone and there is nothing they can do about any of it.

I am cold about it, but it's taken a long time.

[Anonymous]

nassim,

My opinion: you won't know your decision until the time comes. The funeral is for yourself and for your family. It's not for the dead person. Do whatever is in your heart at that time.  I've been to the funerals of some Ns and I was just grateful that they were deceased.

bunny

[Moonflower]

....

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

Tend to agree that I won't know how I feel until the time comes.  My hunch is that I will do it for my own closure.

Just to throw it into the mix, I read a biography of Gene Kelly who in real life was an enormous N (I know, huge shocker, right?).  A real mean, competitive cuss at home.  Anyway, none of his kids went to his funeral...I was a little shocked to read that.  

Later I watched a special about him which included interviews with a few family members.  One of his daughters said everyone they knew in Hollywood was in therapy, except her dad.  He would produce ballet dream sequences in his movies instead.  The daughter seemed reluctant to be speaking about her dad, didn't heap on the praise, but still gracious.  She seemed the quintessential embodiment of an ACON.  Just food for thought.

Seeker

[BlueTopaz]

Hi Nassim,

Maybe doing some "pretend work" might help?  

What I mean, is pretending this situation has come to pass, and you did not go.   Really convince yourself of this, and see what kinds of feelings you have when you sit with this for a couple of weeks...  Guilt?  Relief? etc...  

Then, do the opposite...  imagine in detail how the funeral might go, and see yourself having attended.   Again, how do you feel...  sense of closure?  Sense of duty for your own peace of mind?  Nothing but anguish & anger? Regret you attended?  Other?

And/or, you could write down a list of all of the pros & cons of both going & not going, and see which list feels most peaceful to you deep within...

But as you say, you might still feel one way now, and differently when it actually happens...

That's a really difficult one....  

BT

[flower]

Hi Lizbeth and BlueTopaz,

I commend people being so responsible they think all of this is their duty even considering the horrible abuse suffered at the hands of the N for years.  I commend you for it, but I wonder why you do it just the same.  

Why we do it? That is an excellent question, Lizbeth.

I believe it is because some of us had a different kind of N parent than your husband's N. We had the kind that had us in "golden handcuffs" as Seeker calls the phenomenon in another post.  This may make us look like wimps that we complain about this kind of N but the emotional abuse and head trips were what we payed in dues. It was covert abuse mixed with overt abuse for me in just the right proportions to keep me hoping that there was enough good in my parents that if I did just the right thing, they might see the real me and accept me.

My parents used the Rule of Reciprocity well and often to manipulate me.

Here is a link to a site on social influence that has an article on a book called Influence by By Robert B. Cialdini, Ph. D. The Rule of Reciprocity, as the article says, is "extremely powerful, often overwhelming the influence of other factors that normally determine compliance with a request." :

 http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing20.html

The Rule of Reciprocity is just one of the six rules of social influence that manipulators can abuse to get the compliance they want in their victim.

Some say it is easier if the abuser is open about the abuse than if the abuse is covert. I'm not sure of that but the head trip my Nparents did on me scarred me for life. Just seeing it as abuse and not normal is the first step. It is still hard to not feel obligated to them. It is something to fight against in an ongoing way, but I am healing!  

So, I haven't reached the place where I can say I wouldn't bury my mom and dad if I was the only one to sign some paper as next of kin or something. I might have my husband id the bodies though!!! If any of you read "Mommie Dearest" or saw the movie you might remember what happened when Joan Crawford died and her daughter's reaction at seeing her body and also the reading of the will!! I'm afraid my mom will leave a real stinker of a note in the will...flower is not left with anything for reasons well known to her. I don't expect or want anything, but the note would have its intended effect I'm sure.

BlueTopaz,

Good suggestions for Nassim. I might try them out.

[nassim]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I've often thought that I should tell my mom I don't want any inheritance - have it done legal like - that way I wouldn't have any nasty surprises. I guess if she left me a nasty letter or something I would treat it as trash like I do now. So no big deal there.

But has anyone actually been through this dilemma. There's a couple of guys where I work that didn't attend their parent's funeral...but you know guys. We don't talk about feelings and such too much. So I feel weird about asking why. In fact one guy had so little contact with his entire family that his brother had to find him through law enforcement to even tell him of his mom dying. I wish I knew his story! I wish there was a woman around our department to pry the info out of him. I don't think he would open up to a man (I work in engineering and just one woman works with us on a different shift though).  

I guess I probably won't know what to do until the time comes and I am projecting into the future. It hasn't been 15 years YET. I'm betting the old N will outlive me anyway.

N

[Anonymous]

Nassim,

Everyone's situation is different...even if someone has blown off their parent's funeral, it wouldn't be the same for you.  What makes you want to decide right now? Just wonderin'.

bunny

[nassim]

Bunny,

I'm a long term thinker. Strategist you might say. I usually use time in chunks rather than chronologically like most people. That probably doesn't answer your question even though it makes sense to me. But I don't need to decide right now. I just like to think about options. And I like to have things settled well in advance. At least in my mind if nowhere else.

N

[Anonymous]

One usually has warning about an elderly person's death. They're often in and out of the hospital for years; it gets even worse; finally, their death doesn't come as a big surprise. You may find out about your mother's deterioration from others even if you have no contact with her. You'll probably have plenty of time to figure out what your conscience tells you to do.

bunny

[Anonymous]

I think my Nmother is too much too mean to ever die.  Maybe I should go to the funeral, if only to verify that she has passed.  Then again, I don't think so.  My greatest fear is that if I went, I might find myself feeling guilt or regret.   I prefer not to feel anything.

[tigerlily]

I'm going through this right now.  My mother died two weeks ago and I still am feeling just a sense of relief, and a little sad because I didn't and never will have the kind of normal mother-daughter relationship some people do.  However, I am getting a lot of positive support and feedback from my cousins about how I am handling her funeral arrangements and carrying out her wishes.  I put her obit in the paper the way she wanted it, along with a poem that she wanted to be included, which told everyone how much she loved them and would be watching over them, blah blah blah.  One cousin in particular who had had a clone of my mother (my mother's sister) as another Nmother knows what I went through because she lived it too, and she called me last night.  She said I was handling things with dignity and, by not letting the rest of the family know of my problems with my mother, it showed what kind of person I was.  She said in the future I would know I had nothing to regret and I could be proud of myself for the way I managed the whole thing.  That made me feel really good.  It is so nice to be reconnecting with my family- I no longer am being overshadowed by my mother's need to be the center of the universe.  I'll bet these people never really got to know me before because she wouldn't let them.  This is the first time I will be going back to my hometown (for the memorial service in October ) with a positive feeling.