hi - newbie here...seeking understanding

[Kusumita]

Hi everyone, I'm happy to have found this forum

I'm trying to find some answers to help my live a happier life--free of anxiety and self-doubt...I think I"m trying to reach a comfort level of peace, serenity, and contentment..although sometimes I'm not sure exactly what 'it' is that I am seeking....

[lighter]

Welcome Kusimoto.

Keep posting........

Many here understand.

Mo2

[Gabben]

Kusumita,

Welcome to the board. There are a lot of similarities between your upbringing and mine. I could relate to your pain and struggles in healing. Do you have a current therapist? It was unclear for me from what you wrote.

I've found help in here on the board through writing out my "stuff," most of it. The board has been a safe place for me to discuss narcissism, the narcissism that I was brought up with as well as my own narcissistic tendencies, small and less than my own FOO, but I have had to face myself, my emotional immaturity.

From what I read of your post youare capable of deep introspection and seeking out answers as well as willing to face and heal - really do the work. I hope that you keep writing here; I pray that you find the right therapist. We cry tears here, there are many here who will hold your hand when things get really dark and you just need to write it all out and hear your own voice, however wounded it may be. I have found that when I write out my pains and ideas I get insight, up comes my pain - I have found much compassion here and understanding.

Hugs and thank you for risking sharing yourself with us.

Lise

[JustKathy]

Hi Kusumita,

Welcome to the group. I also saw many similarities in your story, to my life.

It's late, and my brain is fried, but I wanted to make a quick comment on the therapy issue, and the fact that the therapist who hurt you was 70. It's been my experience that older therapists are not educated on NPD, and are not sure how to treat a victim. I read somewhere that NPD only came to light because of baby boomers who stood up and sought answers for their abuse. Back in the 40s and 50s, it was unheard of for an adult to go to a therapist and talk about parental abuse. But the baby boomer generation did it, and the result was a lot of research, and a lot of information coming out about this disorder.

Years ago I went to see a therapist (female) who was quite elderly, I would say at LEAST 70. She had NO idea what narcissism was, and thought I was was talking about a more straightforward type of abuse (spanking and such). I left after the first session. I've found that younger therapists, in the 30-50 age range, seem to be have a greater understanding of NPD. Perhaps this generation studied it in school, whereas an older person would have studied more outdated concepts. This is just conjecture, but I do feel that older therapists don't understand Ns and don't know how to treat their victims, which may be why yours wanted to refer you out.

I may be totally off base, but just an observation from someone who has seen a LOT of therapists. In recent years there has been much talk about narcissism, and many books published. I would think that a younger therapist, maybe even one fresh out of school, would have a greater understanding of the disorder.

Kathy

[teartracks]

Hi K,

I join the others in saying that I relate to your post a lot.  So sorry for the ongoing pain.  Try to remember through each sorrow and every success of the recovery process, there is YOU, a beautiful, unique version of humanity.  I'm glad you've joined the board.  It has often been a soft place for me to fall during the most difficult times.  I hope it will be that for you too.

tt

[Ami]

Sweetie
 I wanted to welcome you. I have so much to say to you but have to come back later. So glad you are here!      Ami

[sKePTiKal]

Hi! and welcome!

About your question, of how to describe your issues to a new T... don't worry so much about speaking the clinical language; it will help that you can... and that you're motivated to learn more from your research... but it's not the number one thing to focus on. (Still, it's a good thing...)

You will want to explore - and re-experience - those old feelings, I think and then process them through your now-mind and emotions... to be able to let them go. So it's absolutely important that you feel comfortable and trust the person you're working with. Some Ts specialize in abuse... so they would be more familiar with the twists & turns that we adopt to protect ourselves.

Neglect is also a form of abuse, which I didn't know either when I started my therapy work. Your description of your parents could be me talking about mine - and yes, I've identified and begun working through my attachment issues. You're on the right track!! and yes, there is light at the end of the tunnel - you can recover from this experience - and the process will help you decide what it is you're looking for.

Glad you found us; glad to have your contributions!

[JustKathy]

Some therapists are just bad. It's not your fault. I had one several years ago who damaged me so badly that her words still hurt me. Like your guy, she also accused me of trying to manipulate her, said I was a chronic embellisher (thought I was over-exaggerating stories of my N mom), and labeled me a "drama queen." She clearly had issues of her own. The last time I saw her she was going through a divorce. I mentioned some marital problems that I was having, and she barked at me, "Well at least YOU'RE not going through a divorce." The simple truth, was that this therapist was just a bad apple, and I needed to move on. I've told my current therapist that I have been harmed by other Ts in the past, and she has acknowledged that yes, it unfortunately can happen, but it's important to move on and find a better fit, and not give up on therapy altogether.

You make a good point that not all older therapists are clueless. Many older doctors spend a great deal of time reading journals and keeping up on current issues, while others do not. I once had an elderly doctor (family practice), who ordered mammograms for me at 30, because I was a high risk for "never having children." I told him that I hadn't had children YET. His response was, "Well honey, you're 30 after all." Old school thinking - women don't have babies after 30.

By contrast, my dentist is almost 70, and throws himself into ongoing education. He reads constantly, has all the latest equipment in his office, and is always hungry for information on new technology. So yes, you make a good point, that it depends on the individual doctor. I think a doctor who is truly passionate about his or her profession will continue to educate themselves and stay current.

It stinks big time when we get hurt by a therapist, because we put our trust in these people, and share our intimate thoughts, and sometimes, we leave their office with even deeper wounds. Please don't let one bad experience stop you from seeking a better T. I would guess that everyone on this board probably has a horror story about a bad therapist. They're out there, for sure. Having a diploma just means that they went to school, but doesn't guarantee that they have the right skills to help us. Keep searching. Unfortunately, you may need to spend some time with your new therapist discussing what the bad therapist did, but it might help you. I needed to do that after being hurt by that one bad therapist, but the new therapist WAS able to help me to undo some of the damage. I also struggled to understand how a therapist could be so cruel to me, but the reality was simply that she was a BAD therapist, with issues of her own, who simply wasn't fit to help others. Please don't fear going to a new T. You may be pleasantly surprised, and find that the new therapist clicks with you and can help you. Do tell the new therapist that you have been hurt a previous therapist - I think that information will help them to help you. I do hope your upcoming appointments go well. Please let us know who it goes. I hope you receive the help you need.

Kathy

[Ami]

Dear Friend,
 I think YOU are a lot less screwed up than the therapist.Trust yourself about what you feel about him. Your point of view is JUST as valid as anything he has to say.
 My M, a true NPD, is a practicing therapist. Your own barometer is the best way and it is telling you information.
 You don't seem borderline(just a laymans intuition).
 You said you had some sense of self that you can feel.Thank Goodness for that and you can BUILD on it. Find a therapist who will help you find your sense of self more.. If you can find s/one to mirror your true self back to you, you can heal, IME.
 We were not mirrored as kids or mirrored as the bad one, to an N who was throwing  their  emotional sewage on us.   Keep sharing. Keep writing. Your background sounds like you fit here!       XXOOO   Ami

[lighter]

::raising hand::

I vote you find a therapist who doesn't get angry over things he's done to you, Kusumita.

When anyone says and does confusing things.....

when they deny what they've done or say it was you......

you probably need a different person in your life.

Esp if it's a therapist.

Mo2

[Ami]

You sound to me(layman's opinion, of course) that you got stuck in childhood, in some ways. You are too dependent and need too much outside validation b/c you have disconnected to your own feelings. You don't trust them b/c you HAD to throw them out,in childhood.
 If you could connect with your feelings and trust yourself, I bet you would be good.
 That is all me, too. Maybe it is not you. Just compost(throw away ) what doesn't fit.
 I think the other big thing is finding a person who can see and mirror the real you. Someone who loves you for the deep, real you that you are and who can SEE it.
 I take my ideas from Alice Miller ,as well as my own experience. Have you read any of her books? She deals with adults who were abused as children. She says if you follow your heart(gut), you can heal.                            Ami

[Ami]

Oh Friend
 You are so much like I am! I think that therapist could have really helped you if he could have let your child come out and have accepted  that child---the deep ,true you who you had to hide and throw away in childhood.He was on the verge of allowing you to reconcile with your true self but dropped the ball, terribly.
 You will never know why, I guess. I have a Ma. in Counseling from a top school and a BA from an even better school--Duke and I had no sense when I graduated. Just b/c you have a degree means nothing about your emotional maturity--nothing--really. It means you can spout back what the teacher wants.
 I have no idea what your therapist was doing. He had problems which you will never really fathom. YOU got away from him, intact ,which is a blessing and does not always happen with bad therapists.
  For me ,the most wonderful thing was finding one person who saw the "real me" and could  accept and be there for me as I bounced off the walls.
 It was a blessing from God. There is no other explanation for it than that.
 Alice Miller calls a person like that an "Enlightened Witness". It can be a therapist or a layman, according to her. For me ,it was a layman .
 Someone needs to do what our parents could not---SEE us. That has been my expereince, .
          XXXO    Ami

[Hopalong]

Welcome, Kusumita...

Others have expressed it all, so I'll just tag on a question or two, in case they help you to any insights. They might not at all, but for whatever it's worth:

If it's not too painful, and if you return in your sense memories as completely as you can to that day...do you have any sense of what your voice was like in the last part of your session, or your expression? Do you know if as you dissociated you did anything unusual?

It sounds to me that some statement or behavior you may not have been conscious about (because you were feeling so raw) triggered him. I am close friends with a T who told me stories of several different times in his career where he felt fear of a client. NOT because the client was "bad" but because some sort of boundary got crossed, whether intentional or not. He also carried a tremendous fear of being sued or stalked. He was fairly PTSD himself!

Anyway, if you do uncover some realization like that, whatever it may have been (and it's just as likely it was nothing at all)...but if you do, don't judge yourself.

Just maybe, some of your bafflement might recede, if you see yourself during that session in retrospect as though you were a fly on the wall.

Is that any help?

(I've had a couple bad therapists too. The most notable one urged me into a diastrous marriage when I lacked confidence in my own intuition. Nightmare. Turned out he was uneasy with me being unmarried because of his conservative views, and I had reminded him of his "wild" sister. Grrrr.)

Hops

[Ami]

When people get to be therapists ,there is no standard for emotional maturity . I have a Masters Degree and I certainly had no business counseling others. I still never would until I had enough strength to deal with what the client brought.
 SO many people are hurt,even killed, b/c the therapist pushes the problem on to the patient as THIS one did.
 He  freaked out for his own issues but did not have the guts(really gonads) to say it!
 This subject makes me angry,as you can tell b/c we trust so much in these people and they often have so much hubris to the patients extreme detriment.
    Ami

[Ami]

Dear Kus,
 People always want to seem to take away our "experience" of life for whatever reasons---I don't know--but it is THEIR reasons. I think the difference between  emotionally unhealthy person and a healthy one is that the healthy person rejects people's attempts to take away their reality.     Ami


PS You may not feel intact but you DID reject his reality and were able to come here and continue to reject it. That shows a sense of self. You still have an intact core from which to work. Some poor souls are too damaged for this. Thankfully, you and I are not there.