Author Topic: Would like People's Opinions on This  (Read 4836 times)

Ami

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Would like People's Opinions on This
« on: August 10, 2009, 09:12:22 AM »
I think I am coming to understand the core damage that was done to me.
Everything that was primal was bad---selfishness, jeaoulsy, pettiness, egocentricity etc--according to my NM.*I* became the bad primal nature and she became the good non primal one. I guess this is "splitting".
When I was in nursery school, I remember my M raging that I needed too much love and was too dependent. I thought I was bad for these ( and all) primal needs and wants.
 I took HER view of me .
 However, there was always a part of me that knew it was not real
 There was always a part of me which could see human nature .God made me naturally intuitive ,I think.
   I had to throw away my  self protective nature in order to survive my parents, who were an N team.
 I was like a de-clawed cat in the world. I thought my primal nature was bad and I denied it in others.
 I was the de-clawed cat in the world of people who could use THEIR self protective mechanisms
  I am still at the place where I feel guilty for primal parts of me and I feel *I* am bad if I see them in others.
  I am trying to get unstuck from this place.        Ami
 

 

 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gabben

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 10:12:50 AM »
I think I am coming to understand the core damage that was done to me.
Everything that was primal was bad---selfishness, jeaoulsy, pettiness, egocentricity etc--according to my NM.*I* became the bad primal nature and she became the good non primal one. I guess this is "splitting".
When I was in nursery school, I remember my M raging that I needed too much love and was too dependent. I thought I was bad for these ( and all) primal needs and wants.
 I took HER view of me .
 However, there was always a part of me that knew it was not real
 There was always a part of me which could see human nature .God made me naturally intuitive ,I think.
   I had to throw away my  self protective nature in order to survive my parents, who were an N team.
 I was like a de-clawed cat in the world. I thought my primal nature was bad and I denied it in others.
 I was the de-clawed cat in the world of people who could use THEIR self protective mechanisms
  I am still at the place where I feel guilty for primal parts of me and I feel *I* am bad if I see them in others.
  I am trying to get unstuck from this place.        Ami
 

Ami - there is a lot here. I know all of what you are talking about. Our NM's did not mirror for us. They did not mirror us at all, they only wanted the parts of us that affirmed themselves in the way that they wanted to be affirmed. If you, as a child, needed, cried, acting exactly like a child who is full of needs and essentially is in pure need of unconditional acceptance AND love then our NM's denied us; that rejection takes on many forms, facial expressions, harsh judgements, abandonment, rules of silence. We, as child, are highly intuitive...our whole world is about getting our needs met, getting validation, attention, recognition, praise, stimulation etc. it is has you say, if those parts of ourselves are not mirrored as OK, or at least given the room to be worked out in an atmosphere of acceptance then we bury those part of ourselves.


My sister is an excellent mom, she is so tuned in to her children's emotional lives; she accepts them, their oddities, expressions, voices. She sends them a powerful message of freedom in unconditional acceptance; they feel secure in her love of them, that they can be and fully experience the world, their world without so much fear.

It is like you said yesterday perfect love casts out fear. Our Nm's were imperfect love, they could not love, they were living in constant fear and they evoked that fear in us as a way to cope with life and tell us their story. We became their parents before we ever had parents.

Over the years, in therapy, I learned that unconsciously we are trying to tell the world our story of pain, we are aching for someone to give us the space and room and time to share the story, cry the story and have our story of terror and agony as child, who were denied love and then denied ourselves, heard. Our little inner child will go to great lengths to get that story across to others even unconsciously evoking fear in others as a way to tell them about our buried fears or terrors of rejection.

We were objects in our parents eyes. They saw us as an extension of THEIR needs, if we did not mirror for them, then they rejected us. It is a tragedy or was but that part of you, that just knew better, was the part of you that buried yourself, knowing that there would come a time when all of this unfinished business would finally get expression.

The guilt that you are talking about may be about the ways that our mothers used guilt as a weapon on us. I have certainly used guilt as a weapon on people before, very effective. What your mother wanted was for you to love her in the N way. But, whenever we fail our N-parents in not giving them what they wanted they guilt us with further silence or punishment, these messages are hard to break....

Ami - tears break the old tapes for me. Just squeezing all the old pain out, crying deeply and grieving that I was just never loved when I was supposed to be loved the most. The more I cry, hurt with pure ache, the more I can feel grace and hope of healing, real freedom...perhaps one day?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 11:06:00 AM by Gabben »

Gaining Strength

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 10:27:02 AM »
I connect with you post in this way.  Night before last I had a dream about my late husband.  In this dream he needed something and it was my job to provide it - just so.  I tried - first this way, then another way and on.  When I woke up I saw immediately that never in my life experience was I the one someone was trying to please.  It is such a part of me that I wonder what it would feel like and how I would react if things should shift - if I were to have a relationship in which there were a true give and take - relationship, friendship - anything!

Overcomer

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 10:30:46 AM »
Well, don't hold your breath on the relationship thing.  I think we have magnets to takers.  Even as I am going through this my h was whining about doing the litter.  He has never done it.  I helped because I felt guilty........guilty?  Four years of him never doing it and I am on chemo and feel guilty....
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Portia

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 10:34:55 AM »
Oh Ami. I very occasionally read something you write here, and almost always wish I'd read more. I almost completely agree with you, from my own experiences. Where I differ is in the feeling that "I am bad" I think. I too remember nursery school and a particular event where it struck me, age 5, that I was surrounded by nasty little animals. I felt shocked and probably afraid because of their selfishness, their sort of 'blood-lust' reaction. I just knew that everything that was happening around me was so wrong, including what the adults were doing. I didn't feel bad myself. I just felt that I lived in a very cruel world. Thankfully I had someone who loved me for the innate 'light' he saw in me. Or should I say: He saw 'me' and that no doubt saved me.

I recognise some primal parts in me, I don't enjoy the feelings (except perhaps some egocentricity, but even that gets wearing very fast, because it cuts you off from others).

Gabben

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 10:35:03 AM »
More...you got me thinking about this stuff, I've been living this.

The N's in my life teach me a lot about myself. For most of my life I have given the N's the power to reflect back to me untruth about me. I have given them the power to guilt me, punish me and take my freedom away. I have bought their lies because that was all I knew to do in my desires to be safe, in my desire to get my needs fulfilled which primarily were to just no be abandoned or rejected. I conformed.

For instance, my roommate teaches me about myself. Yesterday, we ran into each other in the kitchen. in my consideration of her and respect of her needs I told her that our TV is not working and that I am taking steps to get it fixed as well as I empathized with how frustrating it is to sit down to relax in front of the TV and be able to get a cable signal. She told me that she knew the TV was not working, she expressed her frustration. I reminded her that she can always come to me with issues and remind me, express her concern or frustration: I was being kind, and considerate as well as empathetic, a responsible master tenant. She was cold, unsympathetic to whatever could be going on in my life; became defensive taking my virtue and twisted it to a vice to help herself feel better. It was all OK for me. I could not find a reaction in myself that was aggressive or hurting towards her other than to just accept her as she is and where she is in life. I just keep reminding myself that deep down inside she does not feel worthy of having needs, that she is trapped in the pain of needing love and not knowing how to get that love.

What amazes me is just how far I have come. I can live with and N and not be triggered, that is HUGE. Also, instead of buying her lies, her distorted reality, which in the past I would do, I can SEE clearly. The reason that I can see clearly and stand strong is because I have weeded out much of my own N stuff and pain of what it was like to have an N mom. I still have a ways to go, Ami, but noting that progress and being able to allow the N's to reflect back my goodness, truth, rather than reflect back a lie, is progress.

Gabben

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 10:40:46 AM »
  I think we have magnets to takers. 

I love this. So true.

Portia

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 10:54:18 AM »
Seeing clearly is interesting. It sometimes takes me a few double checks and referring back to people I trust, to know that I have seen clearly. I have the instinct/intuition and I'm learning to trust it more - but I still question myself, especially if I think I've seen something clearly and it is 'bad'. I don't want to believe myself. Because....I suppose....it's so depressing, disappointing, sad.

Sometimes it's downright frightening.

Going back to the top, I think I watched other people's self protective mechanisms and learned to copy them - but it hurt to use them. It's survival i guess. I pretended to have that hard shell and it fooled some people - me included.

Gabben

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 11:06:44 AM »
Once, as an adult, Ami, I asked my NM why she abandoned me when I was little, she said that it was because I "needed" so much. They tones in the way that she expressed this made me feel ashamed and brought back to life the shame of what it was like to have ALL of myself rejected. Children are needy and there is nothing wrong with that but NM makes us feel so gosh darn WRONG for having needs, as children we identify ourselve with our needs, therefore, we reject ourselve and feel "bad" to the core.

Children who did not get their needs for love met in childhood grow up to act them out on large scale in profession and achievements. (The Classic N stuff). They see their work or profession as an extension of themselves rather than just what it is; if their attachements to work and achievements, postion can be taken away or lost it will shake the foundation of their being rather than be just what it is... a loss. That is why they fight unfair and so hard for what they want in profession or work, they are fighting for their very lives.


You got me on a roll this AM. Thanks for a good topic, I hope it is OK that I have gone off here with so much info?

Ami

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 11:12:17 AM »
I am so happy for all these responses.(((((Portia, Kelly, Lise, GS )))))))) I don't know where to begin.I want to think about  the wisdom you all  have given me. I,also, would like to ask Portia if she could talk about the person who helped her.    XXOOO      Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ami

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 11:14:06 AM »
Lise, your responses are so profound and wonderful that I am blown away here just so happy to have a chance to heal.    XXXOO   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Portia

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2009, 11:27:23 AM »
Ami the person who helped me was my grandfather. I was aware of his loving attention and knew that he enjoyed being with me, enjoyed teaching me and seeing what I did - and I don't remember ever getting the feeling that he wanted something from me for himself. He simply enjoyed my 'being' and that made me feel secure and happy. I remember the feeling clearly. It was unusual. BFNx

Ami

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2009, 11:46:54 AM »
Dear Portia
 What is BFN x?
 I wanted to ask you if your therapist helped you?
 I have a real prejudice about therapists from my own experience. That is why I am asking.     XXXOOO   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Lupita

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2009, 11:54:50 AM »
I feel also like a de-clawed cat in the world

Ami

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Re: Would like People's Opinions on This
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2009, 11:59:35 AM »
From your responses about the NM, I can see why my NM didn't wanted me to develop self awareness, a solid self.Portia , you are so right. We had to be the parent from the beginning and were shamed and demeaned if we could not do it.Lise, you are right about the NM rejecting us for needs. If I had a self,I would see her.That self would NOT take it.
 Maybe she did it sub or semi consciously but that was the upshot of my life--don't be a self who has self love, dignity and self respect. Be a groveling worm so *I* can get you. That way, *I* can do whatever I want to you and you will be too  beaten down to fight back. That is what happened. I can see the shape of it a lttle bit better now thanks to all of you!
 GS, I get that cry of "No one to love YOU"
That is the cry of the person who was trained to be an object, a helper of others but was trained to squish down her own needs on penalty of shaming from the N's. "Who do you think YOU are?"                        XXXXOO  Amo
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung