hi - newbie here...seeking understanding

[Hopalong]

I hear you, Kusumita. Thanks for your openness.
Well, it's a mystery.

I don't understand what triggered him either but as you say, it really shouldn't matter. So you were silent after you had verbally, in some kind of words, told him of a deep attachment. So maybe it was in those words somewhere.

And maybe it really doesn't matter. Who knows what went off in his brain, or how he interpreted it? He got spooked and maybe it was your need meeting his inability.

I'm glad that you are taking care of yourself by verbalizing what happened and all the feelings it's triggered for you. This is a wonderful place to be listened to.

I'm sorry the episode caused you pain and self-doubt and I hope you'll trust yourself to find another T, a better fit, if that's what you feel is the right path for you.

Negative or burned-out therapists can be so damaging, especially when you see them in a state of extreme vulnerability. Glad you got away from this one!

Hops

[Ami]

Dear Kus
 I am so glad you went in to  the detail. You are trying to save your life and it is very,very important. I think when you were really uncomfortable(burning feeling) in the first session, you KNEW he was horrible but  did not trust yourself.
 Sweetie, we had very big traumas in our families. Things that trigger these trauma's unglue us. I can hear that in you. I have been there many times.
 Sweetie----you will trust yourself  one day but it may take time to see that.
 In the meantime, many therapists are off the wall. There is much therapist abuse from mild to severe.
 I am very leery of therapists b/c  once you trust and have your defenses dismantled like you did, then you can get really unglued as you did.
 You are still OK inside. I can hear that.
 Just b/c he has a Phd does not mean that he is not a full fledged N . My M is  full fledged N. Sometimes ,she will tell me the things she tells patients and I can't believe it but people trust therapists.
 You just hang on and keep talking here.  Nothing you have said is crazy.
 I believe in Primal therapy but some people have been really hurt when bad therapists took down their defenses and then left them.
 I think you are 100% right in your assessment of him. He is a piece of S##T and one day he will sow what he reaped with you. For you, keep writing. Call a hotline. Keep reaching out with the pain and I think you can get back on a more  even keel.     XXOOOO   Ami

[Hopalong]

Hi Kusamita,

That was a tremendous job you just did, of describing every bit of this experience.

I wonder if you could copy your parts, paste them into a Word document, and ask any therapist you're considering to read the whole thing before they commit to treating you?

It's a superb narrative and should help a good T prepare to help you in the best way possible.

I am a person who believes there are many fine, ethical therapists around. But I do think it's important to be your own advocate, and look, or "shop" carefully.

You need someone in the prime of their professional life who is not only brilliant but wise.

I hope you find her soon.
(And probably a "her" is a good idea, imo.)

Hops

[Ami]

Use music b/c they understand. Music got me through childhood,too, as well as books.            XXXOOO   Ami

[Gabben]

Kus,

If you need to keep telling the story in order to keep understanding, seeing and get out the stess that was triggered then please feel safe enough. Because of my  fears of sounding like a broken record, I've held back in the past, it has cost me healing. Keep telling the story. I had to tell my stories of trauma over and over again to see, cry and let go.

Your pain around the psychiatrist is very real, the therapy triggered some very real pain for you. PTSD is so hard, yours is real. Hops is right, you did a wonderful job, a lot of work, in writing this all out.

It is hard for you and anyone here to say what was really going on with the psychiatrist, from what you wrote, it is clear that he did bring some of his own stuff into the process and did make some mistakes, mistakes which hurt you as well as triggered your FOO memories. What must be so painful for you is to have the FOO stuff brought up by him and then for you to be left alone, or abandoned in the pain of the process of all of your memories. That is a trauma in itself. It is as if you allowed yourself to be broken, finally, fully just broken, and, then, you were denied and invalidated for being the broken child you were.


"I could go on and on-but should stop. I've had PTSD symptoms since then. Major chest mains, his objectfying me renumerating through my head, ignoring my friends, unable to do important stuff, uncontrollable crying-and in public, not answering my phone, got a 25% on an exam and failed that class which as implications for my entire future, couldn't get myself to study-could not focus, could not concentrate---grades were As and Bs before this...I've got in 2 car accidents in one week."

You have been going through so much...so much.

Hugs,
Lise

[Ami]

Dear Kus
 I don't know if I can get the flavor of her with comments but I will try one she told me. A guy was having a hard time with women b/c he was attracted to promiscuous women but wanted to settle down with a "nice "girl. So ,my M said to him,"SO, you like them hot?" She told me the guy looked at her like she was crazy and she thought he wouldn't come back but he did. It takes a lot to get s/one to leave a therapist .
 She mocks the patients problems like one lady was too attached to her grown son and my M said she could not stand the lady.One of her patients she is in love with---a gentle guy who is married to an alcoholic wife. This guy travels from another state to see her.
 I think you have a very good gut, a lot of insight and common sense. I think if you interview people and trust yourself, you can find s/one.You are in charge. You are hiring them for a service. *I* am just figuring this one out with professionals.
      XXXXXOOOO  Ami

[Gabben]

Kus

"He'd probably run."

I know the fears you must have now about therapy, you expose your vulnerable buried self and someone runs on you. This has happened to me and I am sure to others. My experience is over now, in the past, it took a very long time for me to heal the wounds from the NT (narcissistic therapist) in my life... two years. While I was healing those wounds I was deep in the pain of my FOO stuff. It was hard for me to trust a therapist again and just when I thought I was safe, imagine this, the NT went to my counselor at my church and then my new therapist and called me her "detractor." She tried to get my new therapist against me. Then my new therapist did eventually abandon me as well as my counselor at church. It was pain upon pain and fear upon fear. I had risked sharing my inner most self with these people but my pains and history WAS too much for them. It was not my fault, it just happened and it hurt like hell. I had to go through life with no one to talk to about all the FOO pain that was coming up as well as all the trauma of risking, being rigorously honest in sharing myself and having people reject me.

There were times were the pain just stabbed like hell, I would be incapacitated in tears and hurt because it was resembling the deepest wounds of what it was like to be rejected at the core of my being by my parents. To be thrown away for being needy and wounded.

However, I got through it, and I am still getting through it. Eventually, God helped put a new counselor in my life, he was the best counselor I have ever had; I could risk sharing all with him, he was healthy, had a huge heart and there was very little transference. He had done a tremendous amount of work on himself and was deeply grounded in his spiritual life. He loved what he was doing, helping others, he had a real sense of mission.

So in the end I realized that if I had not been so wounded by the other counselors I would have never found the new counselor. As well as the other counselors rejection of me helped me to just keep cleansing out the old FOO stuff. It was hard for me to stay in the rule of 10% 90% meaning that most of my strong painful reaction to the rejections that I expereinced were mostly 90% about my own wounded self history. Not to invalidate your pain or my pain that we had to encounter from the mistakes of others, or your experience.

Another good thing is that through all the pain of rejection from these people I stayed open no matter what to never giving up hope for healing myself even though others seemed to mirror for me that I was beyond hope. And you know what? I am getting well, I am not beyond hope and neither is anyone. If you really want to heal, which it is clear that you do, then you will find someone safe.

[sKePTiKal]

Hi K...

first, let me say, I'm so sorry you've been having PTSD symptoms!! Been there done that; it's really not fun... and people just don't understand... especially the medical folk.

Then, about dissociation - remembering and feeling old experiences - to the point of re-experiencing them even - isn't exactly ALWAYS the clinical definition of dissociation. Been there, done that too. Sexual Abuse is part of my story - but not the "trigger" for my dissociation. It was the insecure, disturbed attachment issues that brought on my states. Your situation might be completely different.

And lastly, it's entirely possible that your feelings - the new ones that are coming up - don't really have to do with your T and what happened at all. It's my guess - and that's all it is - that as you started to relax into this relationship your emotional "gatekeeper" got distracted with how much you know about therapy... and then you got blindsided by the emotions that are really about your past relationships. It's possible - not saying that IS what happened - since I have no way of knowing. I've had that happen more than once. Even when I think I "see" it... it's still confusing. That's OK, I think. I don't think we need straightjackets just yet - we AREN'T "crazy"... trust me, on this if you're having trouble feeling like you're OK, with all the new stuff that came up. I KNOW you're not crazy. It will help a lot more to talk about your family, your relationships with them - the memories and feelings that come back to you... than to focus on what happened with your T. Hey - maybe he knows something about his health that he didn't share with you, ya know? What did you say his age was?? 70?

One reason T's refer people is because they don't think they can remain objective enough throughout the process. I guess some people impact on them more than others - and perhaps that's the case here. In simple terms: he cared TOO much. All the training and experience in the world can't exactly counteract that. The T needs to remain objective enough to help you... get through those emotions, process them out (let them go) and begin to be objective yourself about what happened. And the energy to stay with you - keep up with you during the process. Perhaps your need touched him too strongly and he feared he would not be able to be objective. T's are human beings too. But - that's all "reading into" the situation... and I surely can't know for sure. No one can. You didn't do - you "aren't" - anything horrible; and he's not being mean to you, if he's not explaining himself in detail about why he referred you. That is his perogative, as the expert professional here. Not having worked with you beyond getting your "history"... he could only refer you - for his own reasons (and they don't HAVE to be nefarious).

I don't think you're doing yourself any favors right now, by analyzing your T and what happened. Please don't label yourself or try to self-diagnose... lord: what if you're WRONG? Instead, my advice is to put your energy into finding a new T - hopefully you'll get a chance to begin the real work, this time. And please, please... don't be afraid there is something horrible about you!! There isn't. Fear can be the "enemy" all by itself - especially when it's blended with strong feelings. It makes everything look and seem upside-down, inside-out, topsy-turvy fun house mirrors.

I have been where you are now - so I know you're not some freak of nature. It can - and most definitely DOES - get much, much better. And it gets that way much, much faster with a T that is comfortable treating people with abuse symptoms...

[Gabben]

I got his bill in the mail....I get to pay him $400 for traumatizing me. Wonderful..

LOL -- I know the feeling.  I owe about $1200 to my last T. I was in her care for about 2 years; in that time she rarely gave me a bill, although I used to beg her for one so that I could better know what I owed her as well as get the money from my insurance. In the end she used my financial debt with her as her tool to end therapy with me when in reality is was about her own issues.

Bottom line, I still have to pay her and I will because I am integrable. After she tossed me out of her office with a $2000 dollar debt she started hounding me with letters about what I owed her despite that fact that I was sending her money every month and had paid down over $500 in less than 4 months, something like that. I had to tell her to stop harassing me. She was afraid that I was going to act out revenge on her by not paying my bill. I had to reassure her, it was humbling for me.

[Gabben]

"Well, I doubt that. If someone cared, they could have been empathetic and not waited till 5 minutes before the session was over-could have allowed me to process my emotions, or have been supportive while I'm seeking a new T. I don't think it's too much to ask for an explanation; after all, I was honest with him and revealed everything to him. He saw how traumatized I was."

He wounded you. Yep, no doubt. That lack of empathy was exactly what kept me in a viscous cycles of repetitive longing for an explanation from one of my old Ts.  I wanted more than just the cold shut out, I wanted them to explain and I even asked for that but the response from that T was that "I do not want to hurt you." It was so confusing. I think you are past the confusion, the therapist did not have empathy for you and that is clear and it just hurts.

Today I was thinking about the therapist and client dynamic. Therapists are above us in a sense, we are the wounded and they are the healers, we wounded give that to them sometimes so generously, without discernment, that was one of my mistakes that I have had to own. In my wounded pain I just went through life with blinders on, naively expecting the best from therapists. In my own dysfunction I allowed myself to be placed in the care of others, my own dysfunction of needing to be loved so much. Over the years that has healed some and my focus with therapists is grounded in rooting out my shortcomings and getting well as opposed to getting love. It has to be. There was so much shame though in the healing and seeing of my own wounded self.

Giving up the loss of empathy is where I am today, learning that I was never given that kind of attention when it came to my needs as a child. In the process I have had to learn what empathy really is; I learn that from the pains I have gone through as well as staying in relationships despite the fact that there are times when I want to live as a hermit.

[Hopalong]

Hi, Kusumita,

I do not really feel sure I was giving you wise advice, about seeing a female T. Could be, could be not. I'm probably projecting when I suggested that because once I got into boundary violations with a male T. Not extreme ones, but it became an issue we had to deal with.

I would go with your own wisdom.

For me, because my Nmother was the source of most of the pain and damage, it was healing to see female Ts who were wise and kind. It helped me gradually learn to grieve and then to mother myself, I think. (I needed to experience positive and trusting relationships with women.)

In later years, when my focus was moved on more to asserting my anger and determination to build a stronger self, and sort out my relationships with Nmen, then male Ts were often helpful.

But it's silly to make it a black and white "rule" or recommendation...everyone's different.

What do you think about the gender of therapists and how it affects things?

I don't strive for transference, I think. So perhaps you're doing a level of work I haven't ever done so intentionally.

Hops

[gratitude28]

Just wanted to welcome you Kusumita. I have not been on much lately, but hope to read more about you in the next few days. I am glad you are starting to sort your emotions.
Love, Beth

[Hopalong]

Eureka!

I'm so glad to hear this!!!

VERY happy for you, K.

Hops