Help: having great difficulty with Nmom and going NC

[bearwithme]

Hello.  I'm a Newbie here and I need some feedback.  I'll try to get the point out quickly:

I am 42 years old. Started therapy at 36 due to Nmother abuse then ultimately leading to my overall depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, etc.  I am happily married with a precious 2 year old daughter.  To my wonderful fate, husband took a new job and we were able to move 400 miles from my Nmom about 8 months ago.  When I had my daughter I set rules out for my Nmom to follow. I kept boundaries and put walls up as much as I could.  I felt I could not deprive her of the joy of her wonderful (and only) grandchild and realize that Nmom loves her to pieces. 

However, Nmom continues to break my rules.  Mind you, these rules pertain to her narcissism, i.e., not disparaging me or putting me down in front of my child, not disparaging my father or my father's wife (F.Y.I. Nmom is extremely jealous of dad's wife and calls her names and then laughs hysterically, mind you, dad and wife have been married 17 years and Nmom will not let up), not making fun of the rules I have for the baby, not making passive-aggressive comments, etc.  I could go on but I'll stop at that.

Nmom was emotionally abusive to me and my older brother.  She was a raging, self-centered, hypocritical, angry, jealous, obnoxious, fear driving mother.  We had no feelings, only she did.  Brother turned to alcohol and drugs and I became the sweet innocent punching bag.   She divorced my father when I was 21 and he remarried.  Nmom is so demented-mad-jealous-crazy-angry at that fact, and we all have to hear about through her insults on dad's wife.  It's so sick that I can't do it justice to describe it here.  Last year, we had a huge blow out of a fight over me enforcing the rule about no insults to my father's wife.  Nmom called her a name and I wouldn't have it, not in my house.  Nmom went hysterical.  I mean nutso, psycho-crazy, weird-demented stuff. Nevertheless I stuck to my guns but 3 hours later I found myself saying sorry to my Nmom while she cried like a baby on the floor.

This is where I need your feedback:  I'm thinking about going NC.  Her last visit was just so hurtful.  She put me down in front of my daughter and that is a deal breaker.  She also disparaged my dad's wife.  Another deal breaker.  She lashed out at me in public because she got embarrassed about something someone else said to her and I was just the nearest target for her to go ballistic and to spew her N venom-- she treated me like I was 8 years old again and I nearly passed out from my heart pounding out of my chest, we were in a public place and I had to leave, but not without me telling her to shut the ----up.  She said some mean things to me and discredited something I was proud of doing and accomplishing.

I know she will never change and as she ages, she will get worse. 

Basically, I'm dissappointed.  I'm hurt and angry all over again. I've worked so hard to set rules and boundaries and assert myself and her narcissism is leaking out even from 400 miles away.

I thought moving away would help me get some distance but I was wrong.  She says that her granddaughter is the love of her life.  Nmom shows a lot of love for my daughter but also says weird things to her.  I just don't know what to do.

I feel so wrought with guilt.  I don't know where to begin or where to end this sick roller-coaster.  I don't want to screw up my daughter's life and I don't want to rob her of having a grandma even if she's quirky.  I want to be a good example.

This is so sad.  It's just the hardest thing in the world to deal with.

Thanks for any comment you have for me and thank you for listening.  Sorry I got long winded

[Ami]

Dear bearwithme,
 When I read your post, my thought was "All NM's are the same".  The other thought was how sane the D's are.
 My M could play the role of yours.  My M was the same with my children as you describe yours.She was basically loving but said weird things.
 I am NC now for about 6 months. This is the first time I have a brain without her in it.  I don't think I could have ever gotten better without NC.
 The NM gets inside you like a spider web down to the cellular level. It is deep and you can't see it until you go NC,IME.
 So, I think the longer you don't, the worse it will get.
 It is a sorry fact of life with the NM.
 I guess it is hopeless. Only a miracle would get them to change.
 Sorry you had the unfortunate experience of an NM but we have a club here!                     Warmly,  Ami

[JustKathy]

Wow bear, SO much of what you said mirrored my own experiences exactly. I, too, got anxiety disorder at 36. And my final straw was also a huge blow-up where I finally laid down some rules about her treatment of me.

I would say this: think of your daughter. Your mother CAN and probably WILL use her as a tool to get to you. Your mother has already caused you immeasurable emotional pain and physical symptoms. She'll do the same to your daughter.

I completely understand being wrought with guilt. I am too, even though I have no reason to be. My NM spent her life making me feel guilty for my every move. After I went NC, she turned it up a notch and started guilting me even more. BE PREPARED FOR THIS. Ns will not allow NC. They will fight back, and fight back hard. You will receive letters, emails, you name it. In my case, Christmas gifts containing nasty letters - things that could be sent covertly without my father finding out. My NM is now terminally ill, and I have chosen not to see her before she dies. I'm sitting here feeling guilty over that. And you know what? I just found out that she had me taken out of their will. And I STILL feel guilty. This is the power that they have over us.

You are absolutely right when you say that she will never change, and will get worse as she gets older. She will.

Going NC is the hardest thing I've ever had to do, but I'm healthier for it, and better off for it. It HAD to be done, no way around it. There are only two ways to deal with an N. 1) Give them what they want. 2) Walk away from them.

Please keep posting here. You are not alone. Many of us on this board have had the exact same experiences and can help you through this. Don't worry about being long-winded. Just vent away. Letting it all out is very healing.

I'm thinking of you and wishing you all the best.

Kathy

[bearwithme]

You words ring with truth and I painfully understand them.  I'm so sad about this.  It's been 12 days since she left and I have physical ailments all of a sudden.  It is very, very stressful.

You are NC for six months.  Amazing.  How did you do it?  My Nmom left my house on good terms (meaning, I didn't kick her out or anything) so how do I just fade away, or cut her off from me?  She keeps calling and she will think it weird if I stop calling, especially to report about our little one and that's where I fear I will have to engage her and tell her I'm done.

Thanks for your input.  It truly uplifts my spirits albeit a depressing outcome.

Bearwithme

[Ami]

Dear (((bearwithme)))
 You have a good husband and that is very good. I had an NM and NH who I did not stand up to until my 21 year old son committed suicide. I say this only to say that an NM is a burning building. The longer you stay, the more you burn. I had to pay the ultimate price before I realized how awful my life with N's was.
 I say this only to show the seriousness of an NM.
 What did I do in a practical way? I did not call back. They kept calling and I did not call back. Then I wrote an e mail. 'I almost died and my son did die.I have NO family"
 I can't believe this is my life but it is NOT our faults. WE are not bad. They were !  I am sorry, friend.    Ami

[JustKathy]

I went NC with my mother about six years ago. I just stopped taking her calls. She’ll never admit to it, but she KNOWS the reason why.

Here’s the kicker, and something I didn’t discover until after going NC. My M abused be very badly in high school, and I moved out the day I turned 18. For twenty+ years after that, M pretended to have complete amnesia over all the problems we had when I was a teen, and everything I did with my life after moving out – where I lived, where I worked, even my first marriage. I had gone to therapy countless times trying to determine if she had blacked it out, or was faking it. All of my therapists agreed that there was no way to tell, that Ns are just too convincing.

Well, it turns out there was no amnesia. After I went NC, she went into a rage and sent me a five page letter ripping me to shreds. She detailed every single disagreement that we had ever had, including events that took place when I was only a teen. She remembered it ALL, in vivid detail. So I have to say that she knows full well why I went NC. She KNOWS that she did bad things to me. That said, she feels no remorse because in her N mind, I deserved it. But she knows.

[bearwithme]

Wow Kathy, thank you.  The guilt is awful and I don't like it but then I think, what is worse.  BTW, I just broke down as I replied to Ami's post....I just had to let out a scream or two and I think the neighbors heard me...oooops.

I will be here often to vent and thank you for allowing me to do that.  I feel bad that your Nmom left you out of her will. That is so vindictive.  My Nmom will do the same, I just know it.  I know this is going to sound bad but here goes:  I wanted to hold out until my mother died because I'm all she has (brother is complete NC) and I know everything is, or was, going to me, the house, the money, etc., and in some strange and awful way I feel that I deserve it for all she has put me through, that I want to take her money for retribution for the beautiful life she robbed me of.  I want to be paid back, sort of I guess.  How are you dealing with that?

I dropped out of college in my 3rd year because after a few less-than-average grades, I thought college was for the better, pretty, smart people and I certainly was NOT one of them.  This 3rd year of college was the time my mother was at the PINNACLE of her rage, anger and craziness as her and my father were separating and/or divorcing.  I was thrown into the middle and had to be the glue to hold my mother together while my life became became unglued.   She did not care and could not control her emotions as they spilled out all over the place and I had to be there to sponge them up.  I was clinically depressed and I didn't have the slightest idea at the time.  I thought something was wrong with me and felt stupid for attending college in the first place.  I made a poor attempt to commit suicide.  

After trying to convey my sorrows to my mom and plead with her to ease up on me, where I cried to her that I was  hurting in college and I also shared with her that my then boyfriend broke up with me and that I needed someone or sometihng to help me, I remember tears gushing down my face and begging her to stop raging and insulting me...I was in so much pain.  I needed love and support.  Well, my Nmom looked at me eye to eye and right then and there, her face turned to fire.  Her words hung me like a noose, she said, "HAAAHAAA, you can't keep a boyfriend let alone good grades and a clean room!"    She mocked me and I collapsed.  I had what I think was an emotional breakdown (or nervous breakdown) in my bathroom where all I remember is screaming and pounding on the walls with my fists until they swelled like boxing gloves.  My mom heard this and kicked a big hole in the door and screamed at me "something is wrong with you...you have problems....you can't handle life, stupid."  I shook uncontrollably for 9 hours  and drove my car to I have no idea where, my hands were bruised for days.  I will NEVER, EVER forget that.  I may not forgive her either.

College was my life, my love of life, my passion, my stars in the sky, it was my salvation.  I was too tired and exhausted to realize that at the time, I just wanted to give up.  My Nmom's abuse was so intense that it crippled me, it  crippled my ambitions and my dreams.  Her rage fogged the lenses of my star gazing glasses and I could see nothing but darkness and hear her relentless anger and frustration with me.  I was slow, stupid, messy, dumb, forgetful, a bad daughter and a bad family member to her family.  I embarrassed her if I didn't treat her like a queen.  She took her failed marriage out on me.  

Okay, the vent will close at this time.

I want to go NC just for what I went through but life is not that simple as we all know.  Everyday, I am actively working on this.  She has wasted my time enough.

Bear




 

[bearwithme]

I went NC with my mother about six years ago. I just stopped taking her calls. She’ll never admit to it, but she KNOWS the reason why.
M pretended to have complete amnesia over all the problems we had when I was a teen, and everything I did with my life after moving out ....... All of my therapists agreed that there was no way to tell, that Ns are just too convincing.

................ But she knows.

This fascinates me.  Narcisssism is just unreal.  This is so my Nmother as she has deluted the past so badly and changed everything around to suit her needs and it was all everybody else!  But I do think she knows, she has to.....well, I heard that N's don't always know, they are that detached from themselves.

thanks again, great stuff.

[bearwithme]

Ami,

I'm saddened to hear of your loss.  My goodness gracious you are a true survivor.  Your Nmother should have died, not your son. I'm very sorry I say that.   N's just don't deserve life sometimes...I'm just angry that's all.

My prayers are for you

((bear))

[bearwithme]

Ami,

I think we were posting at the same time so excuse the delay looking response to your posts to me 

[JustKathy]

I feel bad that your Nmom left you out of her will. That is so vindictive.  My Nmom will do the same, I just know it.  I know this is going to sound bad but here goes:  I wanted to hold out until my mother died because I'm all she has (brother is complete NC) and I know everything is, or was, going to me, the house, the money, etc., and in some strange and awful way I feel that I deserve it for all she has put me through, that I want to take her money for retribution for the beautiful life she robbed me of.  I want to be paid back, sort of I guess.  How are you dealing with that?

I never expected to be left a dime, so it came as no shock. I have a brother, the golden child. M spent her life fulfilling his every wish. He came along late in life (10 years younger than me). I knew the day that he came out of the womb with a penis, that he would be sole heir. I wasn’t surprised by the news that I had been excluded, just hurt, because my gut feeling of 40 years had finally been confirmed. It’s one thing to have suspicions, but having it validated is a punch in the gut.

I do understand your feelings of wanting to be rewarded for your pain and suffering. I feel the same way. Don’t feel bad for having those feelings.

My mother has an older sister who is very wealthy. This aunt is a doctor, and has always known that something was “off” with my mother. She has always tried to remain neutral in getting involved, but has done things to try and help me. When my mother “boycotted” my high school graduation, my Aunt made the two-hour drive from San Diego, met me at my work, and brought me a graduation gift. When I had chronic bronchitis in HS, and M denied me medical care because I was “smoking cigarettes,” my Aunt miraculously discovered a bottle of prescription cough syrup in her purse.

I haven’t seen my Aunt since going NC with M. M has made sure of that. My aunt had only one child, a son, who got tangled up with drugs and gambling and vanished several years ago. Not known if he is dead or alive. My husband actually suggested that I write a heartfelt letter to my Aunt after M dies (which should be very soon). One, to thank her for caring for me. And two, ulterior motive, her will. My mother would absolutely roll over in her grave if my Aunt named me in her will. Like you, I feel bad for having these thoughts, but we are VICTIMS. Do we not deserve compensation? Money can never erase the emotional pain, but it IS a bit of revenge. And yeah, I wouldn’t mind a little revenge. I DO think we deserve compensation. I really do.

[lighter]

Bear:

You can't make your M behave appropriately.

You can't allow her to continue crossing boundaries either, esp those she crosses in front of your child.

What you can do is enforce your stated boundaries.

It think the fact that you KNOW she can't respect your boundaries, even as you laid them out, makes you feel even more guilt.

That's the truth of it, though. If she could do better.... she would.  She can't.

She can't respect you, herself or anyone else.

She's certainly not interested in being respectful around your child, which is a deal breaker so......

you either follow through with consequences, or you continue allowing your mother's manipulative unhinged behavior to impact your family negatively.

It's your choice.

You deserved a loving caring mother......

I'm sorry you didn't have that.

It wasn't your fault ((Bear))

Mo2

[Ami]

Ami,

I'm saddened to hear of your loss.  My goodness gracious you are a true survivor.  Your Nmother should have died, not your son. I'm very sorry I say that.   N's just don't deserve life sometimes...I'm just angry that's all.

My prayers are for you

((bear))

Thank you (((bearwithme)))
 I wrote a post which erased. I don't like to talk about what happened  except when it can help s/one . I did  NOT face  the truth about my NM or NH.Now, I am forced to face the truth.
  You do not owe your NM consideration. As Vaknin says, "They have no empathy for you."              xxxxx   Ami
 

[JustKathy]

"They have no empathy for you."   

Exactly. As my T explained it to me, Ns feel that they've done nothing wrong. Their victim did something wrong, and therefore they deserve to be punished for it. They feel no empathy because, in their mind, you deserved it. They will NEVER back off on that belief and will NEVER feel remorse. You deserved it. Period.

Not only do they have no empathy for their victims, but for no one else, be it another family member, a celebrity, whatever. A few years ago I had an Uncle pass away. My mother called to tell me that he had died, and said, "Your Uncle David died, but he was an alcoholic, so he had it coming." Her brother had died, and her voice was as casual as if she were ordering a pizza. I've heard the same thing when a celebrity dies. "They used drugs, so it was their fault." This is the way they think. If you do something bad, you should be punished, and no sympathy over the punishment, even if it's death.

[bearwithme]

"They have no empathy for you."   

Exactly. As my T explained it to me, Ns feel that they've done nothing wrong. Their victim did something wrong, and therefore they deserve to be punished for it. They feel no empathy because, in their mind, you deserved it. They will NEVER back off on that belief and will NEVER feel remorse. You deserved it. Period.

Not only do they have no empathy for their victims, but for no one else, be it another family member, a celebrity, whatever. A few years ago I had an Uncle pass away. My mother called to tell me that he had died, and said, "Your Uncle David died, but he was an alcoholic, so he had it coming." Her brother had died, and her voice was as casual as if she were ordering a pizza. I've heard the same thing when a celebrity dies. "They used drugs, so it was their fault." This is the way they think. If you do something bad, you should be punished, and no sympathy over the punishment, even if it's death.

Thank you for your words Motherof2.  Weird part is, I know what you just told me. I understand it and feel it.  I'm even more convinced hearing it like that and it's like the words are there and I'm looking at them and they are the truth.  Period.  But I still have the problem and I wished that this one thing would be easy for me to do.  The entire reality is just so depressingly sad!

Ami, your pain is immense and there are no words to change anything for you.  I'm glad your here sharing it with us though.  The N's, whether they are are parents or our spouse, are emotional vampires and I don't know if there are any happy endings.

Kathy: I quoted what you said because I was raised with a punishing God.  God will punish me if I did this or did that.  If something did happen to me, I was being punished for doing something wrong.  I had this drilled in my head so deeply that I discovered in therapy that I STILL THINK THIS WAY!  I have issues with if things do go wrong for me, it was because I soooo deserved it somehow, that it must have been because I did something horribly wrong. 

Also, if something wonderful happens to someone else or they get accolades for something they did, I feel like, Geez, I don't deserve any good stuff in life or any treats, I haven't earned it! I am genuinely happy for them but inside I feel like I could never, ever get anything like what they got.  I'm so twisted, aren't I!!???

You all have helped me tremendously and I hope to have made some friends here.  I needed this so bad today.

Bear