Telling Nmother about my therapy

[bearwithme]

One thing I thought about yesterday was this:  when I laid down the rules and/or boundaries for Nmom after I had my daughter 2 years ago (of course Nmom went ballistic) and when my daughter was only 7 months old, Nmom broke one of the rules by calling my Dad's wife (my step-mom) horrible names in my house and I wouldn't have it, it led to a 3 hour blow out fight which ended with me apologizing as she cried on the floor.  Well, I remember this interesting tidbit:

After about an hour of arguing and fruitlessly instilling my rules as  to the why's and what's, etc., I told her that I was in therapy.  I told her almost everything.  I told her about pain in my childhood and me suffering from low self esteem, etc.  Well, you can imagine her reaction....whoa!  She went for my jugular and turned into what I feel was the devil appearing right in my own living room.  Then I couldn't help it......I ended up shouting at her and calling her a monster, a b--tch, an emotional rapist.  I told her she had (back then) a rage problem and could not handle her own children. I told her I was in therapy because I have a new baby and I WOULD NOT want to repeat what she has done to me and my brother.  I told her my therapy is the best thing I had ever done for myself and the very reason why I allow her to see the baby, because I am able to deal with her with the tools I got in therapy.  That felt so good, really, really good to yell at her. 

Then something happened I wished I could have filmed-- it was that amazing.  She switched the subject so eloquently I really saw it as artistry.  She quickly and easily started talking about my dad's wife all over again and I took her bait.  Nmom started crying that I was always on Dad's side and loved his wife more than her, that I treated her more like a mother.  Nmom started bawling saying that I always defend his wife, blah blah...she actually turned into a 4 year old child right there in front of me. 

I then tried a little experiment.  Why not, I had nothing to lose.  I started to very calmly tell her that she needed help and that a lot of her actions and things that she says are not normal nor do they sound or look healthy.  I told her that she had too much jealousy for dad's wife and that it was not a good thing that she puts so much emphasis on her.  I told her that it was okay to feel pain about their divorce, but after 17 years of him being married to "Jane," that it was not healthy to have hatred for a woman she has only seen  a few times in 17 years.  I started to feel really sorry for her at this point.  I asked, no begged, her to look at me face to face with love. I said this slowly and sweetly and told her I was telling her this as a daughter.  One that loved her very much.  That I was here for her and that I was concerned about her overall wellbeing and not  judging her in any way.  I reiterated that I was her as a friend, the one she so much wants us to be, etc. I kept repeating to her that her very actions right then and there were unhealthy and not normal, as she was crying, then laughing, then going subject to subject, then insulting my husband to his face, then getting up from her chair and trying to leave, and really acting bizarre.  The more calm I was the more she acted like I was cornering her and she was trying to break free.  But I kept at it.  I did not let go until I got a response about it.  WELL, she finally looked over at me and screamed this, I will never forget it:

I DON'T NEED ANYBODY TO TELL ME WHAT TO THINK, YOU WENT TO THERAPY AND GOT ROBBED...HE TOOK YOUR MONEY AND YOU'RE A SUCKER!!!!  YOUR SUCH A SUCKER--HAA HAAA HAAA...HE JUST TOLD YOU WHAT YOU WANTED TO HEAR, SUCKER!! I WENT TO THERAPY DURING OUR DIVORCE AND I KNOW WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT, IT'S NOTHING AND THE THERAPIST WAS ON YOUR FATHER'S SIDE!!   I HAVE GOD!  I HAVE THE ALMIGHTY LORD IN MY HEART!!  I KNOW HE IS WITH ME AND GOD IS MY THERAPY, NOT SOMEONE THAT STEALS MONEY AND JUST TELLS YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR!!!!  THAT IS ALL I NEED IS GOD, YOU DON'T HAVE GOD WHATSOEVER!!  I HAVE GOD.  I HAVE GOD!!!!!!!!!

What's even more interesting is that Nmom NEVER, EVER looked at me eye to eye when I was calmly telling her that she may need to talk with someone or to go to counseling.  I begged her to look at me as I was talking and she wouldn't.  It wasnt' until she said the above garbage about God is when she looked at me.  She screamed at me so loud her spit was on my face.

At 1:15 a.m. I got up from my chair with a smile and said to my bawling Nmom,  "I'm sorry, Mom"  I shouldn't have never said those things to you...you are right about everything....I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm sorry about all of this."  She then stopped crying like a 2 year old and smiled at me and said, "Thank you honey."

I think after writing this down, I have my answer about if I should go NC or not.

[JustKathy]

Agreed.

One thing that Ns all seem to use as a weapon is the temper tantrum. When things didn't go my M's way, she would do this exact thing. And if you admitted to being wrong, or gave in to her in any way, she would immediately stop.

My whole life, whenever M didn't get her way, she would fold her arms, pout her lip, stomp her feet, and announce "I'M NOT SPEAKING TO YOU." Just like a child. And she meant it. I often went years at a time under "the silent treatment" because I refused to apologize. She tried this same tactic on other family members (all co-dependent), and they immediately apologized. She got what she wanted from them, and immediately "forgave them," but I was the rotten one who would never give in to it. And so I was punished.

Ns also derive great pleasure in believing that you were a "sucker," ripped off, defrauded. When we bought a house during the bubble, amidst the frenzy of bidders, we got defrauded by the seller. When I told my M this, she burst into laughter and did much the same thing that your M did - called me a sucker, stupid idiot, threw my money away, etc. That was a real turning point for me, knowing that she was enjoying the fact that I had been burned. It wasn't long after that I went NC.

Well, I do think you're right. You've found your answer about going NC.

Take care,
Kathy

[Ami]

the same thing that your M did - called me a sucker, stupid idiot, threw my money away, etc. That was a real turning point for me, knowing that she was enjoying the fact that I had been burned. It wasn't long after that I went NC.

Well, I do think you're right. You've found your answer about going NC.

Take care,
Kathy
[/quote]


YES when I was being abused by my H, could not eat, was really skinny and obviously distressed, my M came down and was laughing with my H at what a horrible housekeeper I was. There was glee in her "getting" me.
 I have JUST really woken up to how bad NM's are.
 I had to think *I *was bad. I simply could not face it!              Ami

[polymath]

Wow, my mom is the exact same way. Growing up (and still today), her immediate response to my request to do something, even very small, like ride my bike to the grocery store, they I would beg and plead and work her to get a yes, or I would just sneak and lie and do it anyway. I wasn't vandalizing or killing cats, just an 8 yr old riding 4 blocks to get some gum in the middle of the day. It was like a control game we played, so weird.

I stay away from her as much as possible because its like we compete for air time. Its really insane to watch. She will ask a question and I won't have 3 or 4 words out and she's talking over me, going on about her thoughts, her opinions, I, me, blah, blah. Its like I don't even exist. She's 59 now, retired from the VA where she was a payroll clerk and supervisor. She gets up cleans her house all day and watches TV. Its like shes afraid of the outside world because she cant control it. No hobbies, no friends visit, she doesn't visit anyone, just runs errands, comes home and closes the blinds. Shes just so damn wierd.

The other day, she says in the driveway, "Hey I saw Tommy Rule ( a high school friend who had no father but a good mother and 2 good brothers), in 10 words or less, what do you think about him?".

To which I said, "Tommy's a good guy, but why 10 words or less"

She, "I know how much you hate to talk about this stuff. You know he didn't have a dad around and he turned out OK"

Now at this point I pick up on where shes going. Shes searching frantically for justification for her actions when I was small. Tommy's mother Becky raised 3 boys on her own because Tommy's dad was a deadbeat. But she did have her own life and independence and didn't keep her boys under her wing. She set limits but didn't hover. She was independent and passed that to them.

After I politely removed myself from this potential blow up, I really got to thinking, "thats it, she is a control freak, she can't ask a question and wait a few seconds before jumping right in because she can't control the answer. She has a death grip on life and squeezed the life right out of me.

[Ami]

KEEP sharing,((( RS))). Talk about  the details, suffering, losses. It will keep you alive until another door opens. I am so glad you are here!               Ami

[polymath]

Sorry bears, I just noticed I hijacked your thread. Your so right about NC. It's just the highest form of insanity that the absolute first person we should be able to talk to about our problems in an adult and humane way is our own mother, the person that carried us, fed, watered and held us. For them to be the absolute last person we can talk to on this planet is the basic building block, the keystone, in each and every personal emotional problem on this earth.

As our mothers (and fathers) age, if they don't reach out for help, it is totally logical that they will get worse. They didn't have the emotional stability to make us cut the chord as children, which is the normal and sane way to rear children, then we are forced as adults to do it for them, making our own way through this life.

Kudos to you for seeing this. Good luck in your personal struggle.

[bearwithme]

Thanks RS, kathy, Ami.  I will struggle with this.  I already am.  I was just reading the title of this message board and found it so true.  Just the word "voicelessness" itself is the handbag of our existence.  Even going NC I am still voiceless!!  That is so frustrating!  The N still keeps us voiceless in NC!  Hmmph!  How 'bout that? 

Right now, I admit to myself and you all that I am lingering in the anger stage.  I realize I have too much of it for me to handle situations face to face with my Nmom.  I just want to get back at her so bad and I want to punish her.  My thoughts are so angry and resentful and my T had told me to be okay with those feelings.  But when will I be done being angry so that I can heal?  When will it be that can I forgive her and be okay with NC?  I'm 42 and I want this to be over but the anger keeps coming back.  I'm sure most of you got tired of being angry and found peace with it and then went NC.  I want that so bad, I guess it will just have to fall from the sky some day and I'll be waiting....

I want to change my handle to "frustrated and angry!"

[JustKathy]

I won't lie to you. Six years after going NC I'm still angry. I will NEVER forgive. I am 49, and am still haunted by the memory of a "boycott" of my high school graduation, of being denied medical care for a serious illness because I deserved it for "kissing boys." I will never forgive her for trying to turn my husband against me, for mocking my accomplishments, and ridiculing me when I failed. And I will never forgive her for the horrible, cruel manipulations she inflicted on my co-dependent siblings. I still have regular nightmares over her abuse, and probably always will, long after she's dead. So no . . . no forgiveness.

Some of this may be due to the fact that NC does not end things. The N will never EVER give up. NC angers them even more, and they turn up the heat. NC helped to alleviate my stress considerably because I no longer had to have verbal confrontations, but it didn't stop the venomous letters and emails. I'm not trying to discourage you, just make you realize that going NC won't be an instant fix. I'm just speaking for myself here. There may be others who have been able to find that peace, but I'm far from being there.

My N mother does not have much longer to live. I'm wondering if her death will change anything for me. If THAT will be my peace, or if the damage is just too severe, and the pain and the nightmares will continue for the rest of my life. For those of you with N parents that are no longer living, maybe you can share your feelings.

The thing is, bear . . . we've been very badly damaged. We spent our lives being harmed by the one person who should have protected us, our mother. I do think your therapist was right in telling you that it's okay to be angry. My feeling is that the anger releases a lot of the stress. Holding it in isn't good.

I'm sorry if I've been a downer here. Some people are probably able to move on and forgive, while others can't. Unfortunately, there's only way to know how NC will go. It sucks, but you can't know until you've done it.

[bearwithme]

Kathy, your honesty is great for me, and for you.  I'm glad to hear you are being honest and not denying your anger even when you are NC.  You have come so far though!  In my eyes your are strong and doing what you are supposed to do.  Just curious, why did your Nmom boycott your highschool graduation???  Your Nmom sounds a lot like my Nmom's older sister (my aunt) who did a lot of that stuff to her daughter (my cousin).  My cousin has been NC for 6 years!!  She has never been happier, albeit she did go through a grieving process, anger, frustration, the whole bit.  My cousin is the type that did not put up with ANY crap from her Nmom...I so look up to her during this time.  One thing my cousin does to stay happy and free from her anger towards her Nmom is that she completely and utterly gives one thousand percent to her kids and husband.  She is like a guard-dog to her family's happiness and well being.  I know that it is hard for her at times and she does have her difficult moments where she gets angry or sad, but honestly, she is like a soldier fighting for her family's freedom and her quest for a healthy well rounded life.  She is a good example for me.  But she has been NC for 6 years and I haven't started yet.

Your highschool graduation is supposed to be momentous for you and for your parents!!  What happened there?  If you don't want to tell me don't even go there, I understand!!  I know things stir up emotions and you may want to move on from that.

Each day is getting better for me.

[JustKathy]

Your highschool graduation is supposed to be momentous for you and for your parents!!  What happened there?  If you don't want to tell me don't even go there, I understand!!  I know things stir up emotions and you may want to move on from that.

I turned 18 when I was in my senior year. I had chronic and severe tonsilitis, and was refused medical care as a punishment for "kissing boys," ( which I hadn't done - didn't have a boyfriend). That, combined with several other acts of cruelty, I reached my limit and moved out a few weeks shy of my graduation. She found out where I was living, and sent a letter announcing a family boycott, because "they" didn't approve of my lifestyle. To this day I'm certain that none of my other family members knew of this. My co-dependent father was probably told that he couldn't go, and he always did as he was told. My brother was eight at the time. He had no idea what was going on, and my sister (two years younger) was also co-dependent and too scared to stand up to M.

SO . . . I went with a friend. My senior year had been unbearable, what with my M's abuse, and I really struggled to maintain good grades and to graduate. It WAS momentous for me, and it HURT. She got me, and she got me good. That's what Ns do. And to this day, she feels no remorse. I deserved it, after all. So when my father calls and asks me to visit my M before she dies, I have only to remember that, and I have my answer. Ns are evil. Simply evil.

[bearwithme]

Unfreekinbelievable!  I'm so sorry about that.  Sheer and utter selfishness. 


This disorder should be called  "landmine-disorder." Because you don't know where they are, where they come from, you only trip over them accidentally and get blown up, when their old and rusty they still blowup on you, survivors are maimed for life AND handicapped, they never just become nonexplosive on their own, and no one really knows how many of them are out there!

[Ami]

Your highschool graduation is supposed to be momentous for you and for your parents!!  What happened there?  If you don't want to tell me don't even go there, I understand!!  I know things stir up emotions and you may want to move on from that.

I turned 18 when I was in my senior year. I had chronic and severe tonsilitis, and was refused medical care as a punishment for "kissing boys," ( which I hadn't done - didn't have a boyfriend). That, combined with several other acts of cruelty, I reached my limit and moved out a few weeks shy of my graduation. She found out where I was living, and sent a letter announcing a family boycott, because "they" didn't approve of my lifestyle. To this day I'm certain that none of my other family members knew of this. My co-dependent father was probably told that he couldn't go, and he always did as he was told. My brother was eight at the time. He had no idea what was going on, and my sister (two years younger) was also co-dependent and too scared to stand up to M.

SO . . . I went with a friend. My senior year had been unbearable, what with my M's abuse, and I really struggled to maintain good grades and to graduate. It WAS momentous for me, and it HURT. She got me, and she got me good. That's what Ns do. And to this day, she feels no remorse. I deserved it, after all. So when my father calls and asks me to visit my M before she dies, I have only to remember that, and I have my answer. Ns are evil. Simply evil.

I am so sorry,((( Kathy)))                        Ami

[JustKathy]

This disorder should be called  "landmine-disorder." Because you don't know where they are, where they come from, you only trip over them accidentally and get blown up, when their old and rusty they still blowup on you

OMG! Perfectly said. You nailed it!

[BonesMS]

All NWomb-Donors are NOTHING but @#$!   

Even though the NWomb-Donor I was saddled with is long-dead.....I still feel RAGE and HATRED toward that MONSTER!!!!!

Bones

[JustKathy]

Yep, Bones. Whoever said "time heals all wounds" certainly didn't have an N mother.