Seeing our parents for what they really are...

[polymath]

I'm finding out the foundational importance to our healing to be the ability to see our parents for what they were, two people. Thats it, two people like any other people. They just happen to be the two people that had sex that produced us. Now, because of their own negligence, conscious or otherwise, we get to pay the price. Only until we find through faith in some type of higher power do we begin to heal.

I am slowly beginning to see my mother simply as the nosy neighbor next door. When she gives us something as a gift (like a new cell phone yesterday), inside I know its to maintain control so outside, I just fake it and do what she would do. Say, 'oh thanks mom, you really didn't have to do that", take the gift and politely excuse myself from her rambling on about the cell phone plan, features, color, trip to purchase it, time of day, etc. She knows I'm lying when I say "sorry mom but I just remembered a phone call I need to make".

That's just how you have to handle nosy neighbors until you have the resources to move or they die or move. Yesterday she sees a ladder I left on the side of my house facing hers so she asked me if that was my ladder with the tone of 'I can see a ladder so my perfect little world is messed up' (oh that empty Coke can in the driveway is just killing her). I just smiled and said "I'm not sure who's ladder it is but since it bothers you there I'll move it around to the other side, Ok, oh, shoot I just remembered a phone call I need to make.

I think you guys call this limited contact. I just have to dismiss her with the same fake kindness till she dies or moves or I die or move, case closed.

[Ami]

I'm finding out the foundational importance to our healing to be the ability to see our parents for what they were, two people. Thats it, two people like any other people. They just happen to be the two people that had sex that produced us. Now, because of their own negligence, conscious or otherwise, we get to pay the price. Only until we find through faith in some type of higher power do we begin to heal.

I am slowly beginning to see my mother simply as the nosy neighbor next door. When she gives us something as a gift (like a new cell phone yesterday), inside I know its to maintain control so outside, I just fake it and do what she would do. Say, 'oh thanks mom, you really didn't have to do that", take the gift and politely excuse myself from her rambling on about the cell phone plan, features, color, trip to purchase it, time of day, etc. She knows I'm lying when I say "sorry mom but I just remembered a phone call I need to make".

That's just how you have to handle nosy neighbors until you have the resources to move or they die or move. Yesterday she sees a ladder I left on the side of my house facing hers so she asked me if that was my ladder with the tone of 'I can see a ladder so my perfect little world is messed up' (oh that empty Coke can in the driveway is just killing her). I just smiled and said "I'm not sure who's ladder it is but since it bothers you there I'll move it around to the other side, Ok, oh, shoot I just remembered a phone call I need to make.

I think you guys call this limited contact. I just have to dismiss her with the same fake kindness till she dies or moves or I die or move, case closed.

You sound like you are getting some distance from the tormenting thoughts i.You sound like you are trying to seek out "what is real" and "what are the old distortions" .
It sounds like that to me. That is what I am trying to do.
I ask myself "What is real?"
 AM I worthless? AM I BAD cuz I have needs,  bad thoughts?
AM I different from  people I meet as far as I am BAD and they are not?
 I am starting,slowly,to ferret out reality from the NM messages of worthlessness.
 My NM wanted to keep me down. She did't want me to feel whole ,to have a  sense of self and confidence.She had a mission to keep me squished ,although she didn't know it .
 What is truth? In that is the answer for our health, IME
           Ami

[Ami]

I wanted to add s/thing, RS.
I think you may have the "selfishness" is BAD issue.
This is a big piece of the puzzle for me.
In my mind, I think I am BAD when I am selfish.
Selfishness has to be our first consideration cuz that is how it must be. I think healthy people ARE selfish, first. Then, after they love themselves and are their own best friends, they can feed other people.
 I think it HAS to be this way.
 We, with NM's who wanted to control us ,made "selfishness" a HORRIBLE sin.
 It was one of the main weapons thrown at us and it wounded , terribly.Now, we throw it at ourselves
 I think my forcing myself to be "selfish" is healing, not the other way around.          Ami

[lighter]

I think adding a non sequitur, while dodging your mother, might be helpful; )



"Oh gee, mom..... I left a dragonfly the size of a small plane buzzing around the kitchen..... gotta go."

"Oh hi, mom...... look at the size of that cat.  Gotta run."

Mo2

[polymath]

Thats good Mo2, work on my creativity by coming up with silly excuses that make me laugh...not to be hurtful, just having fun...give her a few seconds to treat her like a human but when it starts to feel a little unbearable, extricate myself before that 'abused' feeling begins to stop me in my tracks.

Ami, thats good too. The 'normals' inheritantly don't cross others boundaries and when they feel theirs getting crossed, get out, often with humor quickly, keeping themselves intact. My friend C is just like this. His parents allowed parties growing up but it just never got out of hand. They would mingle with us just enough and then excuse themselves to their part of the house. They didn't separate completely, we knew they could pop back in anytime, but it just felt right, they got it. He and his brother M have just the right mix of themselves and others, they party, laugh, hurt, do for themselves, help others. Thats the picture of norm I'm working towards for my family.

Has anyone read 'Blink'? The author show how fast, through scientific experimentation, how fast normal human interraction works, how 'awake' people can instinctively size up someone in as little as 1/10 of a second. I think our biggest problem is, after being pushed into ourselves in the early years, we lose the ability to dance the dance because it happens so fast. Now its our job to do whatever, whatever it takes to get back in the game. Unfortunately that includes treating the abusers for what they are, no more and no less, fellow members of the human race who just happened to be around for the first few years of our lives. We have to put them in that camp with all the non-family that we treat with basic respect but dismiss and get away from as soon as it gets weird.

Rambling on,

RS

[Ami]

Thats good Mo2, work on my creativity by coming up with silly excuses that make me laugh...not to be hurtful, just having fun...give her a few seconds to treat her like a human but when it starts to feel a little unbearable, extricate myself before that 'abused' feeling begins to stop me in my tracks.

Ami, thats good too. The 'normals' inheritantly don't cross others boundaries and when they feel theirs getting crossed, get out, often with humor quickly, keeping themselves intact. My friend C is just like this. His parents allowed parties growing up but it just never got out of hand. They would mingle with us just enough and then excuse themselves to their part of the house. They didn't separate completely, we knew they could pop back in anytime, but it just felt right, they got it. He and his brother M have just the right mix of themselves and others, they party, laugh, hurt, do for themselves, help others. Thats the picture of norm I'm working towards for my family.

Has anyone read 'Blink'? The author show how fast, through scientific experimentation, how fast normal human interraction works, how 'awake' people can instinctively size up someone in as little as 1/10 of a second. I think our biggest problem is, after being pushed into ourselves in the early years, we lose the ability to dance the dance because it happens so fast. Now its our job to do whatever, whatever it takes to get back in the game. Unfortunately that includes treating the abusers for what they are, no more and no less, fellow members of the human race who just happened to be around for the first few years of our lives. We have to put them in that camp with all the non-family that we treat with basic respect but dismiss and get away from as soon as it gets weird.

Rambling on,

RS

I think you have this quality, RS. There is an intuitiveness about life . You just have to feel it . I think you are saying that you can't feel it anymore.
  I could not for a long time but now I am starting to ,again.
 When you can feel out who you are and what is going on with  other people, then you will have what you are looking for, I think.
    Ami
 

[lighter]

Polymath:

I think you're right about having to re-file your mother, in your life and heart.

We have to file people all the time, and as the book Blink points out, usually with very little intentional thought.

In this case, the decision to re-file "mother" is filled with landmines. 

What kind of person abandones a parent? 

You have very little real life support and understanding for what you're going through.

On the up side..... it sound like you've regained your ability to laugh.

Gotta be thankful for those small things: )

Mo2

[SilverLining]

I think you guys call this limited contact. I just have to dismiss her with the same fake kindness till she dies or moves or I die or move, case closed.

Hi RS.  You might check out an old post by Lollie titled "The Medium Chill".    It's an approach of keeping the FOO at arms length, without making a big issue out of it.  It doesn't take declarations, or confrontations.  You just back away. 

[bearwithme]

I think adding a non sequitur, while dodging your mother, might be helpful; )



"Oh gee, mom..... I left a dragonfly the size of a small plane buzzing around the kitchen..... gotta go."

"Oh hi, mom...... look at the size of that cat.  Gotta run."

Mo2

I just had to laugh at this.  Great stuff.  I love the non sequitur philosophy...

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I am having trouble finding the Medium Chill post by Lollie. Anybody know what post number it is? I am still learning to navigate this message board ...

One of the most healing works I have read lately is a little book by Henri Nouwen called "Here and Now." Here are some little gems that I'd like to pass along ...

"The real enemies of our life are the 'oughts' and the 'ifs.' They pull us backward into the unalterable past and forward into the unpredictable future. But real life takes place in the here and the now. God is a God of the present. God is always in the moment, be that moment hard or easy, joyful or painful."

"Birthdays need to be celebrated. I think it is more important to celebrate a birthday than a successful exam, a promotion, or a victory. Because to celebrate a birthday means to say to some: 'Thank you for being you.' Celebrating a birthday is exalting life and being glad for it. On a birthday we do not say: 'Thanks for what you did, or said, or accomplished.' No, we say: 'Thank you for being born and being among us.'"

"When we see only demons within ourselves, we can see only demons in others, but when we see God within ourselves, we can see God also in others."

"I remember the most painful times of my life as times in which I became aware of a spiritual reality much larger than myself, a reality that allowed me to live the pain with hope. I dare even to say: 'My grief was the place where I found my joy.'"

"When I could no longer cling to my normal supports I discovered that true support and real safety lie far beyond the structures of our world."

"When I reflect on my own life, I realize that the moments of greatest comfort and consolation were moments when someone said,'I cannot take your pain away, I cannot offer you a solution for your problem, but I can promise you that I won't leave you alone and will hold on to you as long and as well as I can.' There is so much grief and pain in our lives, but what a blessing it is when we do not have to live our grief and pain alone. That is the gift of compassion."

Nouwen is a Christian theologican and one of the founder's of L'Arche, a community of people committed to living side by side with people with developmental disabilities. If you are curious about either Nouwen or L'Arche, both can be found easily with a web search.

I am both astounded and profoundly joyous at the amount of people on this forum who were raised with a distorted example of what religious faith is, and yet in the midst of that confusion, found comfort in their faith and didn't allow a weirdly distorted example in their FOO keep them from having hope and faith in the universe and in the possibilities of life!!!!

I also want to say that it is not my intent to try to proselytize my own views or to use this forum to promote religious faith per se. I know there are also others that have found other routes to healing, and I applaud your healing wherever it comes from. However, I personally could not have healed without my faith, and I feel a connection to others who have found a similar path.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

I realize upon reading my last post that it may seem I was ignoring polymath's and other's postings and just went off on a tangent ... but in my mind there was a relationship between the thread and what I wrote ... my mind is awfully tangential though.

[Ami]

((((((Heartof Pilgrimmage--tangential mind and all)))))                        Ami

[Lollie]

When I left the board last year, I deleted most of my posts, but I thought I had left this one in the "What Helps" section.  Heck if I can find it, either. I'll post it here for Polymath or whoever else is interested, and also repost it in the "What Helps" section.

Cheers.
Lollie.


Medium Chill

When they lash out – show no anger.
When they are nice – do not reciprocate.

Be distant and flat in both cases. When they sense they cannot manipulate your reaction, they tend to leave you alone.

Tell them nothing, ask for nothing, and offer vacuous pleasantries. Medium Chill gives no appearance of withdrawal, so they can’t accuse you of giving them the cold shoulder. You are there, you’re just not present to them in an emotional way.

Medium Chill is effective because they no longer feel safe in their ability to generate chaos. Now you’re back in control. It takes a bit of practice as you learn o disconnect from them emotionally. It’s about more than just boundaries. To put it another way, it’s a two-part process with a specific attitude:

1)   Never share personal information about yourself
2)   Never get involved in their problems/drama

Attitude: pleasant, modest, implacably calm – never showing anger or compassionate involvement; paying attention, but not too much attention, while never violating items one or two above.

Remember, a person can only use information they know about you to find your hot buttons and use them against you if they are highly manipulative. So don’t let them know your hot buttons.

Does your personality-disordered loved one pick fights with you when something is wrong with him/her? When you practice Medium Chill, you, in essence, become a dull listener. They get bored and move on to someone they have a greater effect on. I swear, it really does work. They will rather quickly see who is the most active listener and turn their energies there.

[HeartofPilgrimage]

Lollie, All I can say after reading this, is that I really think you are a genius. I personally am working on my ability to put a wide cushion of space around myself, and to give plenty of space to others. I have spent a lifetime reacting to other people's drama and emotions.

[Ami]

Dear (((Heart)))
 I am seeing that too. I was  in a reactive mode rather than proactive . I am seeing how silly it is to be fighting  giants over which I have NO power.
 It is part of the crazy distortions we get from the N  family.
        Ami