Why can't I do this?

[JPBill]

Hello, I'm new to the forum, glad to have found it. I'm not a therapist but have been with one four a couple of years, trying to learn how to stay in the here and now partly, but mostly to learn how I can be okay in a relationship with my g/f, who seems to have most of the traits I read and hear about here and elsewhere. I hope I'm in the right place and that it's okay that I seek clarity here about narcissism. It has left me emotionally bankrupt. I never know who is going to show up when she sees me. I love her so very much. She can be so sweet and thoughtful at times. Other times my guts spin with a sense of emotional betrayal and manipulation by her. Not to mention that I am not allowed uncomfortable feelings where she is concerned. Anywy, I'm glad to be here, and hope I can find some answers in time. Thanks for listening(reading)

[Moonflower]

.........

[bunny]

I'm not a therapist but have been with one four a couple of years, trying to learn how to stay in the here and now partly, but mostly to learn how I can be okay in a relationship with my g/f, who seems to have most of the traits I read and hear about here and elsewhere.

Welcome JPBill. I'm glad you have a therapist who is helping you stay in the here-and-now.

You can't be okay in a sick relationship (sorry). All you can do is suffer and be miserable.

I second Moonflower - please don't have children with this woman. Have mercy on the innocent.

You're in the right place.

bunny

[lizbeth as Guest]

Welcome, sorry you have to be here.

Be glad this woman is only your girfriend.  Run, run, run as fast as you can to get away from her.  Do not marry her, do not have children with her, do not try to reason with her, do not think you can help or cure her.  If she is an N or P, nothing you do will help her, but you will end up being consumed by an emotional vampire.

Read all you can, you will, sadly, come to the same conclusions, IMHO.

Lizbeth

Hello, I'm new to the forum, glad to have found it. I'm not a therapist but have been with one four a couple of years, trying to learn how to stay in the here and now partly, but mostly to learn how I can be okay in a relationship with my g/f, who seems to have most of the traits I read and hear about here and elsewhere. I hope I'm in the right place and that it's okay that I seek clarity here about narcissism. It has left me emotionally bankrupt. I never know who is going to show up when she sees me. I love her so very much. She can be so sweet and thoughtful at times. Other times my guts spin with a sense of emotional betrayal and manipulation by her. Not to mention that I am not allowed uncomfortable feelings where she is concerned. Anywy, I'm glad to be here, and hope I can find some answers in time. Thanks for listening(reading)

[BlueTopaz]

Hi JPBill,

When I first joined a narcissism forum related to an X narcissistic dating partner I was with for 5 years, I absolutely hated when people told me to run, and that there was no hope...   I was also  terribly devastated by reading those words on the screen...

More than anything, I didn't want that to be the answer, but it was the only answer I was getting, over & over, from so many different, un-connected people, having no conspiracy against me  

I rejected it for a long time, but kept reading the narcissism board daily.  The more I read, the more I painfully became open to what they were saying about staying away from my then partner, might be true...    

If your girlfriend is narcissistic, or someone with strong N traits, it is likely that for as long as you are with her, nothing will change.    Your level of pain, your being barred from expressing yourself, the irrational behaviors, the unpredictability, the knife in the gut cruelness, will continue on endlessly...    

By its actual psychiatric definition, narcissism is a very rigid disorder, meaning it is extremely enduring, and very, very difficult to change.

At one time, I never thought I'd be saying the same thing to someone, and I dislike saying it just as much as I did not like to hear it...  But I do agree with the consensus...

If you are not willing to have this in your life ongoing, with no real end it sight,  it really might be best to slowly begin to consider moving on....  

I am so sorry for people who meet up with narcissists...  They create soooooo much pain in our lives....    

But when we finally heal from it, I believe we end up with more inner wisdom, and strength...

BT

[JPBill]

Thankyou, Blue. I appreciate your kind words and compassion. I am as you have related to, in that place, La la land, where I read but do not yet want to hear what is said both here, and from friends and loved ones. The hitch as I see it, is that most all of it is based on what I tell people about her. And so I keep going back to doubting myself, doubting my motive for saying what I say of her, what I see in her. I have been for a while now separated from her as an intimate partner but still see her platonically. Today was my birthday, and she asked me out to dinner, and after, presented me with a nice cake and gift. It felt genuine at the time. And I still wonder if it wasn't. However as the evening progressed she told me she won't be comfortable being friends, knowing I would be seeing other people..I said I'm in no shape to see anyone right now..so she asks why I won't be in it with her and I said I'm exhausted, and that it's just not working, and that I don't want to talk further about it. She persisted, and I began to think all the niceness earlier was a set up..I refused to respond to her questions and she saiid this is what happens, that i am not willing to talk about it. I then said it's late, she kept at me, and I had to ask her to leave, several times. And right now I feel one minute like a jerk, the next a fool.  Yada Yada Yada. Sorry..just that I'm new and this is the most clarity i've had in the three years i've known her. And I have this wonderful forum to thank. I've read a ton about N, but, as I have learned in the world of Alanon, hearing another's experience strength and hope works miracles that therapists just can't offer.

[bunny]

I have been for a while now separated from her as an intimate partner but still see her platonically. Today was my birthday, and she asked me out to dinner, and after, presented me with a nice cake and gift. It felt genuine at the time.

I think it was genuine. But she does "splitting" so her moments of benevolence can't last very long.

However as the evening progressed she told me she won't be comfortable being friends, knowing I would be seeing other people..I said I'm in no shape to see anyone right now..so she asks why I won't be in it with her and I said I'm exhausted, and that it's just not working, and that I don't want to talk further about it.

She was open and honest with you about her feelings of loss and frustration. But it may have sounded like an accusation or demand. You honestly replied that the romance didn't work (good) and THEN that you wouldn't talk further about it. That was provocative on your part because it was sure to trigger her. She also provoked you.

I think you'd get a lot of info about your girlfriend by reading about borderline personality.  She is a classic case. Many borderlines are also Ns. This website is a great resource:
http://www.bpdresources.com/

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi JPBill,

I know that feeling exactly.  That feeling of wanting to say enough to express your feelings but also of wanting to protect the inside of your head from the person across the table who wants to crawl inside and throw everything around.

I thought you did pretty well.  Sometimes when a person persists, we are tempted to try and give more reasons more information to justify or strengthen what we already stated, when actually it just gives the other party more to pick apart.  The "broken record" technique can work in this situation (sounds like that's what you did, you kept repeating your initial statement even though she wouldn't accept it).  

The website Bunny gave is a very good one.  And yes, your g/f is probably BPD.  Try to find blameless statements to use if/when you see her next time.  Be boring and don't "give" her any emotion to feed off of.  One statement that comes to mind that I use to describe the relationship between NSIL and myself: Our needs are incompatible.  Or, our lifestyles are incompatible.  A BPD will still argue with that, but just shrug your shoulders on your way out.  Hold your ground on how you feel.

The thing I really struggled with (due to my childhood programming) was that I had needs myself--and that is OK!  In the case of psycho NSIL, I had the need to protect myself, to value myself and that's OK!  She's not going to like it--and that's OK!  I don't have to take her crap just because she hurts.  She has a responsibility to heal herself.  

It's OK for you to have higher expectations for better treatment from the person you want to spend your life with.  If she isn't meeting YOUR expectations, it's OK to keep looking.  And it's OK if she doesn't like it.  

It sounds like you are making great, great progress at identifying and respecting your own feelings.  Keep up the good detective work.  We're cheering for you.  Peace, Seeker

[Dawning]

Hi JP Bill.

I have been for a while now separated from her as an intimate partner but still see her platonically. Today was my birthday, and she asked me out to dinner, and after, presented me with a nice cake and gift. It felt genuine at the time. And I still wonder if it wasn't. However as the evening progressed she told me she won't be comfortable being friends, knowing I would be seeing other people..I said I'm in no shape to see anyone right now..so she asks why I won't be in it with her and I said I'm exhausted, and that it's just not working, and that I don't want to talk further about it. She persisted, and I began to think all the niceness earlier was a set up..I refused to respond to her questions and she saiid this is what happens, that i am not willing to talk about it. I then said it's late, she kept at me, and I had to ask her to leave, several times.

She is manipulating you to get what she wants.  If she is an N, she wants supply.  Is she isn't an N or has mild N traits, maybe the problem is that she doesn't even know what she wants and can't tell you that.  In either case, I would pull back for your own sake and don't add anymore stress to enter your body over this.  

And right now I feel one minute like a jerk, the next a fool. Yada Yada Yada. Sorry..just that I'm new and this is the most clarity i've had in the three years i've known her.

I knew someone in college who made me feel like a bitch when he didn't get his way and my self-esteem was so bad that I thought he was right and I played right into his hands. i am still angry about that to this day but learning to forgive myself.  You have control over how you feel.  If she senses that she can have an influence over your feelings, then she will likely want to manipulate them.  Anyway, it sounds like she is taking advantage of your good nature.  Pull back and back and back.

No need to apologize.  Congratulations on getting the clarity you deserve.