Taking the Fear Out of Incest/Sexual Deviance

[bean j]

I know this board is not for incest survivors, nor am I one.  My NM was, however.

The past relationship I think I got into because on some level, I still have this need to understand my mother.  Also, to remove some of the horrible, awful anxiety I felt empathizing with her constantly.

It might seem odd, but meeting an incest survivor who was/is in denial, and I believe sexually abusing his own daughter, and standing up to him and his whole family, has somehow made me feel better. 

It is such a subtle type of asbuse, almost impossible to prove, and the denail probably stronger than any other type of abuse I can think of.  Especially because its his own daughter and she's six (there are also 2 other stepkids who I'mconvinced were abused by him as well, boys who are now teenagers - one is currently in State custody for abusing his sister and some kids in the neighborhood- he is the youngest registered sex offender ever in the State he is in custody in.  A polygraph pointed to no sexual abuse of him by any adult.  When he gets out (very soon) he'll take another polygraph to be sure he wasn't abused by an adult.

Anyway, its a long story and I'll probably need to give more details, but over the past 9 months, I let this man into my life and I let his daughter (then 5) call me Mom.  It ended about a month ago after her Birthday (she turned 6).  I'm sure something happened but I only have my instints, her behavior, and its not enough.  Child Protective services screened out my report.  I've done everything I can think of, and it feels like he's mocking me and possibly only getting stronger into denial.

I've pleaded to his mother, Dad, sisters, best-friend (told everybody I could think of that might be able to give me advice) - he can't be caught.  Not at the moment.  Knowing this, I even tried to appeal to his empathy toward his daughter - he's still emailing me and I respond occasionally

I've gone from panic attacks, to two different therapists (new ones since I'm living in a new state), to feeling extremely sad, to anger, etc.  Back and forth a couple times, the range of emotions and all the stages of grief for the kid.

Not to mention they won't let me talk to her now.

I know I've been codependent, but somehow I'm seeing the positive in all this.  Somehow, its becoming Not-so_scary, my mother's becoming not so scary.

Does this make sense?


bean

[teartracks]

Hi bean,

So sorry for the experience you've had with the male and the little daughter.  I can't imagine the fallout you must be dealing with in the current atmosphere let alone discecting the insights you're gaining into your NM.  I'm wishing you the best - lots of wisdom, steadfastness, and discernment.

tt

[lighter]

(((Bean)))

It's a maddeningly circular path you're on..... and that's the reality.

There aren't any good answers, and there never will be.

Just more, and less, harmful ones. 

Even if they catch this man red handed, and prosecute successfully..... it's still bad. 

Not good.

That's impossible to make peace with IMO.

At least you're finding some understanding, for yourself.

Yes, tt....

discernment.

Mo2

[Ami]

(((((( Bean)))))             
 
          xxooo  Ami

[Portia]

Yes ((((((Bean)))))), it makes sense. I guess anything lived with long enough becomes not so scary (thinking Frankl and everyone else who has lived through things we may imagine to be 'unbearable').

Yes Mo2, it's still bad, whatever happens, and living with something bad isn't about acceptance, right? It's about understanding and making your own informed thoughtful choices, being aware, instead of suppressing it and getting ill.

[Hopalong]

I am devastated with you for the child.

I wonder if her school knows, or if you can make an appointment with the school counselor and tell them in confidence to please watch her for signs?

You can just tell the truth...but a caring counselor might be able to help by agreeing to be alert.

Have you called a national Child Abuse Hotline and talked to anyone? Surely they will have heard of this before (someone reporting suspected abuse, but the local social services agency not being able to prove it...and it still being real...)

xo
Hops

[bean j]

Hi Hops,

I have called the national child abuse hotline.  They told me to call CPS in Kansas, and file another report if I feel strongly about it.  I feel pretty helpless.  I bought a book called "Mothers of Incest Survivors" a couple months before I asked him to move out.  I picked it up and actually read it, I mean Really read it, after I asked him to move out and he did.  I had scanned it before.  Subconsciously, I think I knew what I was getting into, it only became conscious to me when a new "episode" prompted his daughter to display a lot of behaviors I had seen only sporadically all at once.  Also, she didn't talk for half a day, just ran around with a dazed look on her face.  Lots of other indicators, like peeing on toys/in her bedroom, inability to hold her urine, fighting, aggressiveness toward other children, etc.  Anyway, I don't know what to do now.  Move on and forget about it.  Try not to get in another relationship with my "mother" of course.  Weird thing is we broke up back in March and I told him it was because I thought he was sexually abusing his daughter, when we got back together about a month later.  You would think this would have scared him off.  Inall our discussions, he kept trying to tell me it was no big deal (he actually never denied it) and I kept insisting it was.  I also said we had differnt values, and that I knew the difference between right and wrong and he didn't.  He said he was "fiercly loyal."  How does one justify being fiercly loyal when they're cheating AND exploiting children.  I don't get this thinking.  My Mom and him had similar expressions like: You're really independent.  or You're Too independent.  He also called me "holier than though" which reminded me of something my Mom would have said about me.  She would always talk about sex inappropriately and would say sarcastically of herself, " I had SEX in highschool."  (like this made her a bad person)

Did you know that only 1% of child sexual abusers get caught? 

[bean j]

As I'm reading what I wrote I realize it sounds really cold.

I'm crying and extremely emotional, actually.  Hard to convey that accurately in words.

sorry for the bad writing style.  Just trying to get soem of this out

bean

[Hopalong]

I didn't know that statistic but it makes me sick...
it tears me up inside, shreds my peace, makes me crazy.

Have you been able to file that second report?

They told me to call CPS in Kansas, and file another report if I feel strongly about it.  I feel pretty helpless.

Someone has to know...if there's any way you can tell more and more and more people--everyone this child could possibly come into contact with...writing down everything you observed in a detailed, detailed account as you just wrote here...I can imagine how hard it is to do this...I don't mean to ask the impossible.

There must be advocates, somewhere...

love and thanks for fighting for her,
Hops

[teartracks]

bean,

I tried to get the police to act on something a few months ago where I thought a child was at risk.  It was a case where I knew that he and the child had been caught on surveilance cameras which meant that the police could have looked at the surveilance photos to see if the child was missing and or see if the man was a registered sex offender.   All I got was the run around.  The policeman begged off saying that there was nothing to 'act' on.  All I asked him to do was to request a look at the photos taken at a specific moment.  I had the exact time on a receipt which should have made it relaltively easy for him to check it out to see if the child was missing or if the man was on a registered sex offenders list.  NOTHING!  Heartbreaking, truly.

tt

[Anastasia]

I had a "feeling" a guy I knew had abused his daughter.  I really think he felt he was in love with her on some level.  Anyway, guess what?  I was right.  Trust your instincts.

[nolongeraslave]

There's not much support when it comes to proving sexual abuse from what I see on the job. Reports get screend out, or supervisors don't "want" to jump to conclusions without any legit evidence.   

I have suspicion that one of my clients is being sexually abused (all of the signs are there), but my concern was dismissed in supervision. My supervisor said "I think she would knock him out if her dad tried to sexually abuse her." HELLO?? Not all 12 year olds get defensive when they're being sexually abused. Some are tricked to go along with it or to think it's okay.   Bonding with your sexual abuser isn't rare at all.

I just kept quiet and didn't bother challenging my supervisor.  I guess there's nothing I can do. The girl is very defensive of her parents, because she's scared of being put in a foster home. Even if she's being sexually abused, she was probably taught not to let anyone know.

Now, it makes sense to me why I didn't tell anyone when I was 13. Nobody would have done anything.

[bean j]

(((((((((nolongeraslave))))))))))))))

I did contact his 16 year old son who has been "abandoned" by both his mother and father.  Not legally abandoned as CPS in Oregon was quick to point out to me.  But emotionally, financially, and physically abandoned.  I told him I didn't feel sorry for him, I felt sorry for his Dad.  I knew he was strong since he was taking care of himself.

The 6 year old breaks my heart.

Hops, there is nothing else I can do, no one can do anything for her (my last attempt was posting it here in hopes someone could get me in contact with a group that might be able to fight for her; I would be happy to help of course).  I did get a glimmer of hope, some mail came for her at my house.  It was a Medicare/Medicaid package for mental health.  Maybe a teacher complained to CPS about her behaviour and That report got thru.  I heard it was pretty bad from an adult friend (well former now, she won't talk to me since I told her what I thought was going on) who had a child in the same class.

Of course Dad pulled her out of that school and now she's enrolled in a new school, with a new teacher I've not talked to. 

The more people I talk to the "crazier" I look.  His family (according to him) say I'm obsessed.  His sisters actually won't talk to me anymore, neither will her Mom (my ex's ex-wife). 

Denial, denial, denial

I'm feeling better lately.  Not about her, but for myself, if this makes sense

[bean j]

I'm hoping that when the 12/13? year old in Oregon is released from state custody/juvenille detention (whatever he's in, I'm really not sure), it will get some attention.  He is registered as an adult Sex Offender.  He was registered when he was 10, I believe.  This is the youngest age ever reported for the State of Oregon.

His mother made the decision to take him out of the home to protect the daugther (then 4?), so CPS removed him.  It went to trial, and the lawyer recommended the 10 year old not tell the truth about touching his sister in the shower.  He insisted he was going to tell the truth in court.  Mom could have overrode that decision, and somehow he wouldn't have had to testify?  I think this is the story, I've gotten only sketchy details from the mother, as you can imagine.  Dad wouldn't say anything about it at first, and I only got really vague answers from him after that (which forced my decision to call the Mom), and we fought about it a lot, as you can imagine.  Last thing he told me, cause I was really upset and yelling/insisting to know how this happens was "maybe I did something to him [the kid, to turn him into a Sex Offender]".   I hung up on him because this was so scary to me.

I asked him to move out a few weeks later.  It was a lot of information to absorb all at once.

Anyway, I'm only 1 person.  Trying to remember I'm not the only one responsible for this kid(the 6 year old).  Also, at some point I have togive it to God, I know this.

sad
bean

[Hopalong]

Aww, Bean, you're a hero.
I mean it.

You've been wrestling with the ugliest beast there is.
That has to make a difference, somehow.

Even if it's one day when she's 18 and you can contact her and tell her, I tried, I fought.

love and courage,

Hops