Looking back: "It was so much worse than I realized!!!"

[Anastasia]

   Has anyone looked back or spent considerable time with their N and realized how much worse the situation was than they even realized?  This has happened to me. 
All during my childhood until I left home at 19, I knew I was being abused by the Nmother and stepfather and was in an abusive situation; however, in order to survive, I repressed all thoughts and just did what I had to do in a robotic manner.  This coping skill I still seem to use today in many settings:  a stressful business, when verbally attacked by an abusive/bully of a relative, when I was married and my ex- would go into his rages (adult child of an alcoholic so he was a "dry" drunk), etc.  My ex- would express it as, "Anastasia is going into her shell."
Has anyone else had the experience of coasting along until they were startled into realizing just how bad it was really?  It particularly comes to my attention when I will be telling a friend about something that was done or not done for/to me, and they react totally startled at how cruel and uncaring my mother and stepfather were to me.
I knew what they did to me at the time was unreasonable and not kind, but I really haven't thought about it in years; and, so, now when I get that reaction from someone I am thinking about their behavior and how unkind it was, and am just amazed at how severe their cruelty was towards me.  Yet, I was constantly told how I should "appreciate and be grateful for" the nice home I had, the nice car they drove, the good food I had, etc. 
So, my conclusion is that my story is kind of like "Mommie Dearest" where she beats the kids and ties them to a bed, but tells them how grateful they should be for what she gave them.  This must be the norm for Nparents who resent the child and resent any little bit of food they eat or anything they feel they have provided for the child.
Anyone have a comment on all this?
 

 

[SilverLining]

Hi Anastasia.  I think it's possible to get used to some incredibly bad situations.  Looking back on it now, I realize I was an emotional and physical wreck by the time I got away from the FOO.   Adulthood has been a drawn out recovery process.   

Part of the challenge is not having anything to compare our experience to during childhood.  What we experienced  seemed "normal" because we didn't have any experience of anything else.  In adulthood I have had the chance to watch how other parents treat their children, and I have been surprised to see the level of real regard some parents have for their children as independent human beings.  In the feeling of surprise is the lesson for me.   I had no idea such parenting was possible or maybe even common.  I was treated either with indifference or as a sort of extension of the parents, depending on their moods. 

[Portia]

Anastasia, yes. I don't have any more comments. Just normal feelings.

SL:  In the feeling of surprise is the lesson for me.   I had no idea such parenting was possible

Yes, the surprise or shock response is one to watch for, it tells me lots. Amazing how our brains didn't see this when we younger eh, that we literally didn't see good parenting, love in action, didn't see kindness, empathy. We couldn't afford to.

Amazing to see it now. Like a new colour.

[bearwithme]

Anastasia: I was also raised to "appreciate" my Nmother and to go against my father (a basic/good man).  She wanted to build a front against him because he probably wasn't the best husband in the world, but he tried.  Nmother raised me with so much rage and frustration against him that her anger and resentment became my own.  I had NO IDEA  this was happening to me.  I had no idea my Nmother was treating me like a pawn and like a second class citizen.  She came first! Not me or my brother.

It saddens me now to look back on things as they were.  How lonely we were and how we were so depressed and didn't know it.  I also saw other parents with their children and couldn't relate to tenderness and unconditional love. I was also a robot of survival skills.  No life skills whatsoever but I survived.

Unlike you, I don't really go "into a shell" when confronted or mistreated or yelled at, etc., I would take it home with me and dwell on it forever.  I swallow all the negative to think "hey, they all must be right, I suck."  But I'm getting better at this as we speak.  I am so much better at being assertive, not as much as I'd like, but it's a start.

Your "mommy dearest" scenario is well put!

Bear.

[JustKathy]

Anastasia, I TOTALLY get what you're saying. When I was in my teens, I knew that my mother was mean to me. I was confused, and I didn't understand why she treated me the way she did. But I just sort of lived with it because it was my "normal." That's the world that I had grown up in. Yes, life was hard for me, but at that age, I wasn't able to grasp just how bad it really was. I too, just coped.

Now that I'm older, and educated on what NPD is, I do realize that things were MUCH worse than I thought they were. A few years ago I started writing down some of the things that my NM had done to me, thinking that I may one day write a memoir, and I started remembering things that she did to me at a very young age that were simply heinous. When I relay these things back to my therapist, I'm shocked by my own words, that I actually managed to live through all that.

What I wonder, is if THEY know how badly they treated us. I wonder if my NM knows how cruel and abusive she was, or if it was HER normal. Are Ns mentally ill, and able to justify their behavior, or are they fully cognizant of their abuse? My T thinks that in the N's mind, the child was simply being punished for bad behavior - it was deserved, therefore there is no remorse. Guess no one will ever know for sure what goes on in an N's mind, but I think about it a lot.

[Twoapenny]

Hi A,

Completely get where you're coming from on this.  I've only recently started being very free and open with my early experiences (I'm 36).  There has been one incident in particular where the response I get from people is an audible gasp of horror.  My mum treated the incident as a bit of harmless fun.  I think minimizing what's been done to you is very common.  I also think when it's what you've grown up with you are just used to it and it doesn't strike you as being unusual - you don't have much else to compare it to.  People have asked me why I never told anyone, but the truth is it didn't occur to me to.  Even when I first started therapy it was to treat recurring depression; I had no idea what I'd been through was abusive.  Seems silly now looking back but when your world consists of four walls and your family it's hard to know your life is very different from a lot of other people's.

[Anastasia]

Somehow I figured out that the folks were crazy in 6th grade.  I remember sitting in math class and thinking, "why do they hate me so much?"  Then I started to think of all my teachers, the kids, Brownie and Girl Scout leaders who liked me (I always was extroverted and had lots of friends), and I thought to myself, "Hey, other people like me.  Just they hate me.  It isn't me.  It's them."
So, I was always aware they were cruel, but just had to totally repress my entire personality in order to get "along" with them. 
It was a happy, happy day when I got out of there at 19...very happy.  This was 1964 and I had exactly $450 to my name, which was enough to live on for about 6 weeks.  Amazing, isn't it?ut my detesting of them was stronger than my fear of leaving.
Maybe my hostility towards them--so well earned--was what saved me?

[bearwithme]

Anastasia, I TOTALLY get what you're saying. When I was in my teens, I knew that my mother was mean to me. I was confused, and I didn't understand why she treated me the way she did. But I just sort of lived with it because it was my "normal." That's the world that I had grown up in. Yes, life was hard for me, but at that age, I wasn't able to grasp just how bad it really was. I too, just coped.

Now that I'm older, and educated on what NPD is, I do realize that things were MUCH worse than I thought they were. A few years ago I started writing down some of the things that my NM had done to me, thinking that I may one day write a memoir, and I started remembering things that she did to me at a very young age that were simply heinous. When I relay these things back to my therapist, I'm shocked by my own words, that I actually managed to live through all that.

What I wonder, is if THEY know how badly they treated us. I wonder if my NM knows how cruel and abusive she was, or if it was HER normal. Are Ns mentally ill, and able to justify their behavior, or are they fully cognizant of their abuse? My T thinks that in the N's mind, the child was simply being punished for bad behavior - it was deserved, therefore there is no remorse. Guess no one will ever know for sure what goes on in an N's mind, but I think about it a lot.

This is remarkably close to my experience past and present. I think about it a lot as well.  Hmm, I also wrote thing down for my T and he was shocked as well as I was.  I'm wondering Just Kathy, when writing down the things that your NM did to you and you saw it there in black and white on paper, did it feel like your declaration?  Like your truth of all truths?  Did it make you angry seeing your words?  I got very angry for a while and my anger resurfaces often.  I can conjure up memories and then want to tell my NM to go to hell, but I never do. 

My T had me write a letter to my NM (one that I would never send) and it took me 25 minutes and it was 4 pages long.  When I went to proof read it and to change things, I couldn't believe what I wrote.  I didn't feel the need to change one letter, one phrase, period or comma.  It was flawless---my true feelings--raw and unedited.  I kept it that way and read it over from time to time and I still don't find myself wanting to change it the way I change almost every thing I write.  I guess it's timeless.

Thanks for sharing.

Bear

[Anastasia]

I agree that it is somewhat of a shock when you write down your feelings and then read them and go, "whoa!"  Or you are telling just a story to someone about your childhood and something Nmom said or did that I accepted as the norm, and the other person just freaks out at the cruelty or abusiveness of the situation.  Those are the instances that are eyeopeners and you can use them for healing yourself.   
However, I am so glad that I was able to spend time with Nmom these past 5 years and have finally been able to get the answers to my unanswered questions.  The guessing makes you crazy.  The knowing that I DID live in an abusive environment--and it was a reality--and that I wasn't wanted or cared for (despite protestations of how much I was cared for) really settled my mind.  Being told you are so cared for and living in an abusive environment makes you crazy with all the double-messages.  Now I know what I thought was correct.  Now I know what the reality was and is.  It has settled my mind tremendously, and I actually feel good about it.
Maybe this is what I needed to break free of the shackles of questioning, guilt and wondering.  I feel alot more settled mentally now than before as I can accept the truth of not being cared for, not being loved, not being wanted.  (I feel like Margaret Cho:  "I'm the one I want.")

[Ami]

I agree that it is somewhat of a shock when you write down your feelings and then read them and go, "whoa!"  Or you are telling just a story to someone about your childhood and something Nmom said or did that I accepted as the norm, and the other person just freaks out at the cruelty or abusiveness of the situation.  Those are the instances that are eyeopeners and you can use them for healing yourself.   
However, I am so glad that I was able to spend time with Nmom these past 5 years and have finally been able to get the answers to my unanswered questions.  The guessing makes you crazy.  The knowing that I DID live in an abusive environment--and it was a reality--and that I wasn't wanted or cared for (despite protestations of how much I was cared for) really settled my mind.  Being told you are so cared for and living in an abusive environment makes you crazy with all the double-messages.  Now I know what I thought was correct.  Now I know what the reality was and is.  It has settled my mind tremendously, and I actually feel good about it.
Maybe this is what I needed to break free of the shackles of questioning, guilt and wondering.  I feel alot more settled mentally now than before as I can accept the truth of not being cared for, not being loved, not being wanted.  (I feel like Margaret Cho:  "I'm the one I want.")

Can you tell me the specifics of spending time with your Mother. What happened? How did it heal you? Did you live near her etc?
Thanks so much          Ami

[JustKathy]

I'm wondering Just Kathy, when writing down the things that your NM did to you and you saw it there in black and white on paper, did it feel like your declaration?  Like your truth of all truths?

It felt validating, for sure. For so many years, no one believed me. I've even had therapists who didn't believe me. There definitely IS something about seeing it in print that makes it "real."

I haven't written things down in detail yet. I just started writing down events, with the intention of coming back to them later and writing in greater depth. But just seeing notes, like "she did this to me when I was in kindergarten," "she did this to me when I was 6," etc., really brought home how early it started. All of the signs were there from as far back as my memory will take me. I suffered unspeakable emotional abuse when I was a teen, and at that time, was just too traumatized to look back at my early childhood. But seeing events on paper now, and seeing how many there were over the years, it's definitely seeing the truth. My NM's sister (my aunt) once said to me, in her always politically correct manner, that M "has her moments." Seeing a timeline validates that is was more than "moments" - it was a lifetime of abuse.

Kathy

[JustKathy]

The guessing makes you crazy.

Doesn't it? My gosh, I have spent years thinking about things, over and over, trying to figure out what my NM remembers, what she thinks of her actions, and so on. One of my therapists once said to me, "Some people are just evil. Don't try to figure them out." Probably very true. I'll never know what went on inside NM's mind. In the end, I probably will look back with the realization that yes, she was "just evil."

[Anastasia]

I've been living and eldercaring my mother for the past 5 years.  This has ended up being a beneficial experience for me in the sense that so many of my questions got answered.  I can accept the truth.  It was the double binding that drove me crazy (i.e., we love you so much, but we won't do anything for you that benefits you and we will be belittling you all the time).  It's really answered many questions I had and, granted, the outcome wasn't ideal (i.e., she knew she was abusive, she knew my stepfather was abusive and didn't really care or take any responsibility for it); however, I CAN handle the truth. 

[Portia]

I CAN handle the truth

and that's all that matters eh? I think so.

[Ami]

Wonderful outcome (((Anastasia). That is probably the best that we from NM's can hope for!     XXOO  Ami







PS  Hi (((Portia))))